Exotic Characters

[Algol]

Since this topic was discussed a bit on the award timer post, I thought it'd be appropriate to create a thread for the topic rather than derailing another.

Compared to 5 years ago or so the amount of visually distinct/ exotic races on surface has increased a noticeable amount (at least that's what I have observed). I personally think this encourages people chasing/ aiming such special looking characters rather than focusing on story of their character. And I also find it immersion breaking.

For me the biggest offenders of these are filborgs, and winged characters. And with the introduction of new greater award giants and kenku I worry things will get way worse. Here is what I suggest:

1) Kenku should be treated as a monster race/ have no way of starting on surface

2) Any giantic race should be a major award and require a DM token. Ideally they'd be treated as monster race as well.

3) Wings should only appear during climbing animations and temporarily using an innate ability

4) Surface tieflings should require an application

5) Gensai should be encouraged to be subtle, perhaps add a few npcs stigmatizing them?

[Itikar]

I am not bothered by exotic races. Most of them have actually a place in the setting, and the surface is not particularly diverse as it stands.

I would actually enjoy seeing a few more monsters around, and especially in the Underdark.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

This seems really excessively anti-player. I dislike obnoxiously played special characters with zero research into what the lore for their race is, but segregation doesn't fix that. Andunor is a failed experiment where the team has repeatedly bashed underdarkers with a hammer for years because surfacers won't stop befriending them. And it's not even lore friendly, a lot of monstrous races in the underdark rightfully belong on the surface. If you're upset about lore, trying to shove even MORE surface stuff into the underdark doesn't make any sense. It's just anti-player because you don't like characters that stand out so you want to shove all the "weird" things into the underdark. And it's not like special races don't add to the story on the surface. RDDs (especially chromatic) and avariel add ancient racial tension between elves and dragon-kind, I've watched it play out a few times.

Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of stories people tell. There'll be people who play things poorly, but there'll also be people who tell good stories. And those are the people I want to RP with. I've met a lot of great genasi, pixie, and avariel characters.

With that said, I wouldn't mind if there was a really simple application for the more lore heavy races just to check that people read the background on what they want to play. Approve it once people show they read the lore, give advice on the character concept if it's a bit off.

[Richrd]

I think the ideas proposed by Algol are all good and would improve Arelith.

[Atlus]

None of the races you listed make sense being shoved into the UD or monstrous label gutter. As mentioned, several of the races ALREADY condemned to it make no sense down there.

The entire paradigm of trying to suppress people from playing the outdated concept of "monstrous races" to begin with is completely surface level and petty as is.

This concept is VERY anti-player and would be destructive to what's already a weak lore consistency on how various races interact in the tabletops versus the crude black and white morality enforced by Arelith's game systems. If anything, more surface/underground segregation should be removed and more alignment agnostic areas should be added.

[Alyxnia]

None of the races you listed make sense being shoved into the UD or monstrous label gutter. As mentioned, several of the races ALREADY condemned to it make no sense down there.

The entire paradigm of trying to suppress people from playing the outdated concept of "monstrous races" to begin with is completely surface level and petty as is.

This concept is VERY anti-player and would be destructive to what's already a weak lore consistency on how various races interact in the tabletops versus the crude black and white morality enforced by Arelith's game systems. If anything, more surface/underground segregation should be removed and more alignment agnostic areas should be added.

I find myself agreeing with this quite a lot. We already have all sorts of 'surface' races making their home in Andunor even without outcast tags, forcing more races down there is counterproductive to good storytelling. Arelith is not the low-fantasy pseudo 2e setting it was in 2005 nor should it return to that state.

[xf1313]

Could be just my bad luck? Or is it I interact with non-30 characters much more than lv 30s. The proportion of rare races I came across are truly small, the great majority are the common races.

There will be a temporary surge of certain race for some time but they get diluted quickly. If anything, I hope to see a monster’s spot on surface, like goblins and gnolls...and a few others, that really creates immersion.

[Atlus]

Could be just my bad luck? Or is it I interact with non-30 characters much more than lv 30s. The proportion of rare races I came across are truly small, the great majority are the common races.

There will be a temporary surge of certain race for some time but they get diluted quickly. If anything, I hope to see a monster’s spot on surface, like goblins and gnolls...and a few others, that really creates immersion.

I'd sooner like to see some low ECL/easy to grasp monstrous races to just become openly playable and give them a cruddy village in the fringes of the island or a slum area in some major city to start from.

I'm of the opinion that we need a fourth starting area that's functionally neutral.

[Red_Wharf]

About op's suggestions, all I have is a quote from Michael Scott from The Office: "You are a thief of joy."

[Skeletor]

I completely disagree with the OP, let people have fun and let the setting embrace the new additions.

[Dreams]

Sometimes feels like people forget we’re set in the Forgotten Realms. Things are crazy there! Enjoy the craziness because that’s where fun stories will happen.

[Skibbles]

I feel similarly with PartyintheForest.

You don't like these things so your solution is to dump it all into the UD?

What the hell, man. The UD isn't a trash heap for things people don't want to deal with. They're players too, you know.

[Edens_Fall]

Let's move Gnolls back to the surface!

[Paint]

On the subject of asking genasi to be subtle, I gotta ask why? Every canon depiction I've seen in 3e/3.5e and FR source books has shown genasi to be overtly representative of their heritage, to the point where you'd kind of be creeped out just by looking at them. If anything, it'd be more lore-accurate to make genasi stand out more. I mean, some fire genasis are depicted with their hair literally on fire.

Back on topic, while I do genuinely do think the pops of some races should be kept lower, it's not because I don't want to see them -- except tieflings >:( -- it's mostly because I feel like you lose a little bit of the magic of seeing those unique archetypes in their elements. I feel disappointed with some of the roleplayers of Arelith when they use the race they pick as a skin to wear rather than something that contributes to their character's identity and their roleplay. I don't think I'm really an authority on how to play a character or how to play a race either, but I can tell you that some of the most impactful encounters I've had with members of odd races on Arelith have always included their race as part of their identity in some major way -- not as the one thing that defines them, but as something that contributes to their way of thinking and way of behaving.

I don't think we should go about shaming people for the choice to play an odd race, though, and I honestly don't see a point in putting more restrictions on races that don't need them.

[Eyeliner]

I would say this... Every character on Arelith pretty much has to do certain things (writs- crafting- shopping- banking- etc etc etc) with a lot of their time and there's only so many ways to do them. A tiefling isn't going to be representing their demonic ancestry very much when they're doing the chores you gotta do to get by. The question is how they act when the RP is more involved and in general I do think most exotic races I've seen live up to expectations when given the opportunity (including, you know, actually talking to them about it instead of judging without engaging). I'm not saying there aren't badly played characters but I think that's the minority if you're fair and keep expectations reasonable.

[Hazard]

judging without engaging

I think this is vastly more prevalent than poorly RP'd characaters.

[D4wN]

judging without engaging

I think this is vastly more prevalent than poorly RP'd characaters.

I agree with this. Many people judge other people's RP quality of said races/alignment/deity followers etc. without having any context of background, story, current events etc.

In regard to the OP message. I also disagree. Honestly, I care less if we have people walking around with butterfly wings or riding unicorns (figure of speech). Many play this game to be special little snowflakes, be something they're not RL. If having wings, beaks, claws, tails, horns makes you happy, then what's the harm. RP with them is either enjoyable or its not. If it's not, it's easy enough to remove yourself from it.

I'd love to see more monsters, openly evil factions etc succeed living on the Surface. It would create much more tension and conflict which in turn drives stories.

[Purplemyst]

Since this topic was discussed a bit on the award timer post, I thought it'd be appropriate to create a thread for the topic rather than derailing another.

Compared to 5 years ago or so the amount of visually distinct/ exotic races on surface has increased a noticeable amount (at least that's what I have observed). I personally think this encourages people chasing/ aiming such special looking characters rather than focusing on story of their character. And I also find it immersion breaking.

For me the biggest offenders of these are filborgs, and winged characters. And with the introduction of new greater award giants and kenku I worry things will get way worse. Here is what I suggest:

1) Kenku should be treated as a monster race/ have no way of starting on surface

2) Any giantic race should be a major award and require a DM token. Ideally they'd be treated as monster race as well.

3) Wings should only appear during climbing animations and temporarily using an innate ability

4) Surface tieflings should require an application

5) Gensai should be encouraged to be subtle, perhaps add a few npcs stigmatizing them?

This might be down to play times but I've only seen one special reward race character since returning 3 weeks ago.

1. Kenku's lore states they live on the surface.

2. I don't know enough about this race to comment.

3. I couldn't disagree more. If a race has wings then it should be down to the player and their rp if they wish to hide them.

4. I would really hate to return to a system where things are locked by an application. This also adds work to the Arelith team.

5. Again no comment I know little about genasi and how they are perceived in dnd.

If there are truly a lot of reward races running around I don't have an issue with this.

You mention you find this immersion breaking and I feel that's more of a you problem. As a player what other people play or how many special races are running around has 0 effect on my immersion.

I think having more races around adds to potential rp and yes arelith is based on dnd but at the end of the day it's a game.

[The GrumpyCat]

I hate to say it, but I think a lot of what the OP is complaining about is actually kinda a feature, not a bug.

Part of the fact we've more 'special' looking pcs on the surface is because I have pushed for there to actually BE more plausable award options for folk who (like me) primarly play surface pcs.

If we go back a few years, the only option for a normal award was
*A selection of underdark races
*neutral Pail Master
*Good Monster race
*ECL.

With the exception of the pail master (which is still playing a ostrosized concept) and ecl, all the above are underdark based. So, to equalize things, I allowed human Gnesi to be a normal award and then, later on, extra langauges and sea elves were added. Meaning that there is now something to DO with a normal award if you get one, and have no real desire to play an underdarker(1).

Over the last few years, whilst waiting for the award change (which direly needs to come) I've been trying to continue that pattern with making sure that we get some more surface and acceptable options for monster races.

One of, perhaps the, reason for this massive award update was that I was looking at doing the bi-annual award shift (where I try to shift one or two options around from greater to major). Aasimar numbers were high, so I wanted to swap them out for something else. But I wanted to make sure the 'something else' wasn't another evil-monster-race, and we weren't sure which one to pick. Then Irongron I believe suggested just adding some more, like Gloamings. Other people put their own ideas, and it sort of spiraled from there, though I will add I never expected us to get half-giants out of this!

I'm a huge believer that reward options should cater to various play styles and enjoyment factors. If almost all award options are 'evil monster race' then that's not much fun to people who arn't very keen on that concept. LIkewise if all award options wer 'good surface race.' However, the fact there are more achievable options for people who don't want monster races does mean that we get a greater vareity of creatures on the surface. I myself don't really think that this is a huge deal? Or if it is, then it's less to do with the fact that now people who play on the surface actually have something to use their award on, and more to do with the fact that awards are now too easy to get!

Back when I started, it was expected that leveling from 3-30 would take approximatly 9 months.

People did it faster of course, but for the vast majority of players I think this was very approximatly true.

As time has gone past, leveling has gone faster and faster. From nine months. To six months... around 2020 I had a pc who leveled to 30 in three months. In 2022, around the turn of the year, I managed to get my pc to level to 30 in one month. And this - I want to add - is with fairly restricted play time and pretty much no 'grinding' in the conventional sense.

When even someone like me can get to 30 in a month - when getting to 30 in a couple of weeks isn't uncommon, of course it gets easier and more prevelent to have more award races cropping up. I won't lie that this is a problem.

Ultimatly the new system should help with this, but when (or sadly even if) this system comes in is really out of my hands. It's literally been planned from pretty much when I first started being an Admin, so years now. But it's out of my hands. Sorry guys. But when/if it does come in, I will say that having a nice vareity of award options will almost certainly be a big boon.

The concern about the quality of rp from these award races is valid. Currently we have two ways of fixing this.

1) Application
2) RPR gate it.

Both of these can be problematic. Application puts a lot more work on the DM team (and honestly I wouldn't consider doing it except for solid 5% races because of that.) RPR catches only those who we see or who have been brought to our attention. And with both options accusations of 'dm bias/favoritism' can be leveled.

There is also of course the option for the hybrid system, as we do with Good Underdarkers. Where some races are locked to people of a high RPR OR with an application. I think if we do decice to go this way with any grater award race, this might be how we do it. But we'll see. This is something to monitor and I can say that at least with some races (looking at you Kenku) we'll be watching the rp style VERY carefully going forward.

To go through some points individually.

1) Kenku should be treated as a monster race/ have no way of starting on surface

2) Any giantic race should be a major award and require a DM token. Ideally they'd be treated as monster race as well.

3) Wings should only appear during climbing animations and temporarily using an innate ability

4) Surface tieflings should require an application

5) Gensai should be encouraged to be subtle, perhaps add a few npcs stigmatizing them?

1) Nope. Kenku are a surface race.
2) That seems like it'd add a lot of work to the Dm team. But we'll monitor the sitaution going forward. No reason for them to be a monster race either. I want to give more options for surface characters.
3) Seems again really wierd. if you've wings... you've wings...? Why would they only pop out whilst flying?
4) No. They're far too popular an option and again I see no reason to shove them all down into the underdark... I might perhaps, consider making them hybrid/app only if the team put a good enough argument to me. But that's as far as I'd be willing to go.
5) I am unfamiliar with any lore, or any real predjudice against Gnesai. Maybe a few country oiks might go 'oh woa, a Gnesai' but there's no hatred against them. If anything, I would be more willing to go this rout with Tieflings, and remove their ability to have horned head/tails or something? But Gensai? I don't see the logic for it honestly.




(1) To be clear, Underdarkers and underdark players are AWSOME and I fully hope and intend to add and support award options for you guys! You deserve all the options you get! But it's also important to make sure other play styles are supported yeah?

[Ork]

UD is a purgatory.

[Itikar]

I would not remove the option for tieflings to have tail or horns. If somebody is bothered by horns and tails in a setting that has tieflings as a core race in the edition the server is based upon, maybe they should simply choose a different setting or a different edition to play in.

Adding some prejudices against tieflings with such features might have sense on the other hand, in some areas, as that has some basis at least.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

They removed planetouched years ago from being RPR-gated because there were signs players were trying to special snowflake their way into even greater absurdity (in/famously an aasimar saying, "I'm actually a 3000 year old angel.").

The server's tradition (and culture) is actually largely based on resentment towards this kind of misuse of character. And also, coupled with the fact that prior to Irongron, there was a hugely static "demographic option" - there was no racial variety, and instead, players had to rely on the wits and quality of writing to 'stand out.' And that to some, playing a 'unique' race was either considered 'cheap' or too 'in your face' about how "superior" other players were (from a RPR sense).

I think times have changed a little. But I also put the onus on the DMs/server (not the players) to ensuring 3,000 year old angels don't return. I think we should actually have more variety, as hopefully it'll creating more interesting scenarios and arcs for the server.

(I think the addition of vampires, yuan-ti, and rakshasas, for example, have actually done a lot in many good-aligned groups and factions. You didn't have conversations about such subterfuge and real *real* evil creatures 10+ years ago.)

Personally, to me, if you're playing an exotic race - you have a greater burden to prove you're actually something worth roleplaying with than if you just rolled up a human. Because I'll be bored in an instant if you use racial uniqueness as your defining schtick. I'm not really here to get into "wow cool avariel lore" "wow cool kenku is kenku." I'd rather watch paint dry.

[Security_Blanket]

I've been waiting for someone else to mention this, I'm of the opinion that there are way too many over-the-top fantasy races available to players. In most cases, and I'm sure I'll annoy a few players in saying it, but needing to rely on a special race for your story shows a lack of imagination. Am I suppose to be impressed that you have wings, that you're really tall, that you're a short birdman? These don't add to my experience and only serve to take away from it. I don't know what differences caused the split that created Amia, but you guys appear to be heading in the same direction of more power and more fantasy. You guys initially locked Firbolgs behind a bigger award because there were suddenly tall people everywhere changing the vibe of the server, I wonder what 5 new half-giant races will accomplish. You may as well unlock Dragon Disciple while you're at it, then everyone can be special.

[I am War]

I've been waiting for someone else to mention this, I'm of the opinion that there are way too many over-the-top fantasy races available to players. In most cases, and I'm sure I'll annoy a few players in saying it, but needing to rely on a special race for your story shows a lack of imagination. Am I suppose to be impressed that you have wings, that you're really tall, that you're a short birdman? These don't add to my experience and only serve to take away from it. I don't know what differences caused the split that created Amia, but you guys appear to be heading in the same direction of more power and more fantasy. You guys initially locked Firbolgs behind a bigger award because there were suddenly tall people everywhere changing the vibe of the server, I wonder what 5 new half-giant races will accomplish. You may as well unlock Dragon Disciple while you're at it, then everyone can be special.

There exists players on all kinds on the spectrum. Some may rely on the race to make their RP special, some may have great RP already and the race just happens to be a part of it. I’ve seen a firbolg played very nicely and it’s obvious when a player has done research. It adds to the immersion when I meet this one firbolg wandering around the Skal wilds just talking about the Furies and nothing about the fact that she’s a firbolg. The focus was always about the environment and not the race.

I’ve also met this dragon that all she talked about was her being a dragon and taught my character all kinds of dragons and their colors. The player-side of me wanted to bolt right out but I remained in character and pretended to be impressed. I believe it has more to do with setting an expectation for how these races should be approached. Should there have been more gate than rewards like apps or RPR? Maybe, but I’d say give people the benefit of the doubt by interacting with them before jumping to the conclusion by the virtue of their PC’s reward race.

[Wrips]

lol nobody is supposed to be impressed at anything. people play their characters for their own enjoyment, not to fit the subjective criteria and to unnilaterally please third parties, be it a common race or special race.