Exotic Characters

[Richrd]

...WHY HAVE THEM AT THAT POINT?!

The main issue people like me have with reward races is that getting to play them is not based on merit or knowledge of the world but rather on if you get lucky with RNG. Further they are often mechanically superior or even, as is the case with the newest additions, straight up broken for some builds.

[stoneheart-]

Okay but I'm drawing the line at inventing inconveniences that don't make sense, I guess I should have clarified.

Kenku aren't another race to throw in the UD gutter.

Fair enough! And completely agreed.

[Eyeliner]

I'd say one more thing about exotic characters. If you really want to see them RPing their culture, it might actually be better if there are more of them around to do that.

By that I mean... One weird outlier is going to be like foreign exchange student, a tourist, a recent immigrant-- someone who is trying to fit in to a culture alien to them. Of course that's going to "humanize" them more than they would be if encountered on their home turf. If you want to see exotic races demonstrate their exoticness I think it actually helps if there's a small community of them to back each other up. That goes against the idea that they have to be severely limited in number but I think it could actually lead to more interesting RP from them, they aren't all going to be doing the stranger in a strange land story and could instead lean into playing a little exclave of where they're from.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Ooh, thoughts!

First, personal preference, Anything I can't chance the look of I do not play:

Goblins, kobolds, ogres, fey, etc. No thank you.

On uh, Lore.

Lore has always been a bit vague, And I have seen a lot of lore been rewritten IG, so, I don't mind it much aslong the basic lore is held up.

I do think giants should have a disadvantage in human cities, like giants indoor should be in some buildings be slowed due their height to resemble bending from the ceiling.

Seen 6 giants in Skaljard so far, seemed all wonderfull. Mostly they made me think that wooden thrones finally have proper bums to beseat them.

Jury isn't out on the Kenku yet, think they make better npcs than pcs, but..

[Amateur Hour]

By that I mean... One weird outlier is going to be like foreign exchange student, a tourist, a recent immigrant-- someone who is trying to fit in to a culture alien to them. Of course that's going to "humanize" them more than they would be if encountered on their home turf. If you want to see exotic races demonstrate their exoticness I think it actually helps if there's a small community of them to back each other up. That goes against the idea that they have to be severely limited in number but I think it could actually lead to more interesting RP from them, they aren't all going to be doing the stranger in a strange land story and could instead lean into playing a little exclave of where they're from.

This makes a good point, even on a less dramatic scale.

I've now played three sun elves from Evermeet who arrive on Skal speaking nearly no Common. One of the first things you learn is that, if you try to stick to the supposedly-common sun elf "bow before me unworthy humanoids" or even the "eww scary gross-smelling humans, avoid avoid avoid" mentality, you're gonna die. A lot. Unless you're really lucky and stumble on a bunch of elves who will tolerate your supremacist self, you have to adapt to a more open-minded, humano-centric way of life or die...and since we're supposed to conduct our characters in a way to fear death, you really do have to adapt.

[IanPatron]

I think the whole award system is broken and rewards grinding over RP, with only the most special races locked behind apps.

I think a better idea would be to have a point system, primarily based on time spent as that character, and RPR.

Time spent will discourage what we have now... throwaway characters that grind to get better rewards.

Also make the points for each race equal more than one character deletion, that way players have to play several characters for extended periods before they can eventually get their special race.

Also make it so players with higher RPRs get more points per deleted character. Players with higher RPRs already proved themselves as good RP players.

You could also make the highest reward races worth a lot of points... I mean ALOT of points. Maybe give discounts based off RPR...

Just brainstorming ideas.

[Kenji]

Further they are often mechanically superior or even, as is the case with the newest additions, straight up broken for some builds.

Can you list the reward races you believe are mechanically broken and the builds that go with them? This is otherwise a very vague statement.

[Xerah]

Can you list the reward races you believe are mechanically broken and the builds that go with them? This is otherwise a very vague statement.

But platitudes are so much easier to use!

People's use of "broken" usually amounts to an extra +2 than other options. Though, I'd rather there be no stat changes for any races aside from the gift option, broken is more than often overstated.

[Marsi]

I simply just do not understand peopel seeming to be strict that only "Tolkein-esque" races should be playable, is my biggest issue.

Well, for one thing, Arelith for a very long time consiously differentiated itself from most other servers this way. It was not the reason Arelith and Amia split, but it was understood, at least as time went on, that Arelith was for pared back quasi-realism (relatively speaking, for Forgotten Realms), and Amia was for anything goes kitchen sink power fantasy.

Across the threads concerning this topic there's this argument that Arelith just isn't that server anyone, that special characters are ubiquitous, and that times have changed and its time to move on. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Arelith's commitment to the aesthetics of low fantasy/magic. I remember when every 30+ RPR was a genasi/aasimar/tiefling, it was ridiculous. This wasn't a concious change, and it would have been silly at the time to go "well, times have changed, everyone wants to be planetouched mane, just accept that" because eventually through various updates and award reshuffling Arelith returned to more traditional character demographics. It's entirely possible that that could happen again. We've had multiple fey-pacted warlock DM-sanctioned pogroms. Historically speaking, Arelith loves to bump special characters down a few pegs now and then.

Personally, I have no problem with exotic races, but I do have a problem with "Cool Human" races. A new race should have the possibility for new culture and society-forming that exists in its own right. Most of the races we are seeing have that quality I think, though some are so niche I don't ever see them reaching a critical mass.

[Kalthariam]

Well, I suppose that's your opinion and you're welcome to it.

I'm still relatively positive, that the overwhelming majority of player character races are Humans, plain old humans.

Then followed by all the generic fantasy trope races. I don't really feel like there's an over abundance of these races from my direct experience, I think I've seen exactly one shadowvar and Gloamling despite them being brand new, and I haven't even spotted a Kenku yet.

[The GrumpyCat]

I think the point about there being a lot more special races is true and valid and to be considered. But I'd like to put forth a few points.

* - With the faster leveling system, it is easier than ever to get a major award, or indeed a greater.
* - Before these were added in, there were 4 races that were uniquividally surface special races. (Aasimar, Avariel, Fey, and firbolg. But underdark or monsterious (as in passing-for-human-but-bad) races there were 6 special races (Yuan'tai, Ogre, minotaur, vampiare, rackshasa, imp) Not a huge disparity to be fair, but a disparity none the less. (1)
With these changes there are now 7 special races catered around surfacers (half giants - counted as one blob, Fey'ri and Kenku) and 7 special races for underdark/monsterious (green hag added).
*However half giants come in four different flavours. And as most people go human-gnesai, those tend to be a seen more often on the surface too.
*What this means is that there is just more options for people not wanting to play underdarkers.
*The underdark, it again needs to be said, is amazing - but it is not our busiest surver. Nor are it's races our most popular. I havn't the numbers in front of me, but I'd hazard to guess that the majority of our player base play surface races, and good/neutral aligned races at that.
*So what you have is a lot more award options for players who don't want to play an evil underdarker, or an evil monster. Folk who want to play characters who are heroes or just chillin' enjoying a time on the surface. So people now have something to spend awards on!

Though it does lead to a bit of a 'zoo' I can't help but think that, none the less, this is a good thing? And hopefully adding more awards, and rareifying current gaining of awards, will help too.


(1 - Note - I've not included Gloamings/Imaskeri/RDD because not quite sure where they fit given their inclusion both in underdark and surface. So putting those to the side for a moment.)

[Sytic]

Going to give the "lore argument" for a minute.

Giants have their own societies, their own lore, and a rich history. They have and had civilizations, tribes, and families. It is so important to them ("it" being the family unit) that Giants often referenced their ancestry in greeting. There are enough Giants for them to have speciation in the form of the various kinds of True Giants and Giant-kin.

Giants were a large enough civilization to go to war with dragons. And dragons are tough. So they had numbers, and still do have numbers.

Sure, Giants have less of a population than the more common races. But let's not kid ourselves: Giants are bloody everywhere. Who cares about Half-Giants.

My stance on the "looking pretty" argument: Naturally, as an adventurer, you will find other adventurers. It is more common to find individuals who look strange. How many regular common race individuals that are absolute nutters or drenched in mega-super-duper armor or what have you? Are they really that strange standing by someone who would naturally be seen as an "other" in the broader community? It is more practical that there would be adventurers in the form of these uncommon races because of a lack of a structure, encouraging them to make their own way in the world.

It's basically half-elves on crack: Belonging nowhere, so they have a greater-than-normal amount of adventurers.

On the mechanical side of things: I like the faster leveling, but understand the issue this makes with rolling and getting these Awards and making special characters. However, I believe now that there's a cooldown, the issue will recede. Slowly, gradually. Until the Award change comes in completely.

[TurningLeaf]

Humans, humans everywhere

I say instead nerf Quick to Master

Didn't we try that?

Before my time then. Whatever they tried it didn't work lol. So many humans in the UD it's oocly jarring. Because on Arelith a lot of builds are squeezed, so despite all the fancy sub races Quick to Master became even more OP. It's really hard to beat an extra feat and 1 skill pt/ level in a squeezed build environment.

[Xerah]

Given that humans in Skullport are the most common of races and 33% of the population, it shouldn't be that jarring.

[Edens_Fall]

How about we turn Dark Spires keep into a surface Monster race settlement-ish place? Dark Spires has always been a lovely location, though rarely used other than through travel. I must admit the idea of a location for surface-based monster races is nice sounding, rather than dumping them all into the UD. Can even have Lore/Event in which the island forces the creatures into the frozen spires as a form of containment, thus giving brog a reason to exist as a redoubt against the threat.

Fun thought if nothing else!

[Ork]

so despite all the fancy sub races Quick to Master became even more OP. It's really hard to beat an extra feat and 1 skill pt/ level in a squeezed build environment.

I don't think you know what OP means. Humans are the most versatile race (as it is in lore) due to the extra feat, but there are plenty of races that do what they do better. Elves (and drow) make better mages, some-halfgiants make better clerics, orogs/duergar/dwarves make better fighters/barbarians. Elves make better archers. Halflings make better rogues. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

You gotta quit those toxic discords spouting nonsense, fam. If for anything but that they're wrong on at least the base mechanical assumptions about humans.

[TurningLeaf]

so despite all the fancy sub races Quick to Master became even more OP. It's really hard to beat an extra feat and 1 skill pt/ level in a squeezed build environment.

I don't think you know what OP means. Humans are the most versatile race (as it is in lore) due to the extra feat, but there are plenty of races that do what they do better. Elves (and drow) make better mages, some-halfgiants make better clerics, orogs/duergar/dwarves make better fighters/barbarians. Elves make better archers. Halflings make better rogues. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

You gotta quit those toxic discords spouting nonsense, fam. If for anything but that they're wrong on at least the base mechanical assumptions about humans.

Ha, I didn't get that from any discord nor am I really sure which server i would even find that discussion on. A number of the tweaks on Arelith have the effect of making both feats and skillpoints more valuable than other places. As an example, lower/standardized magic means no immunity to kd items and no items with a high buff to discipline. Now a good melee build needs to have esf discipline, costing an extra feat. Change scrolls to lore, climb, ride, sail, high umd gatekeeping, all adds up to skill points being more dear and valuable despite getting the extra 2. These are just examples, you can probably think of some too.

[Ebonstar]

everyone should just relax and give it a month or two because by then all the new exotics will either settle in or fade away like every major change over the years. Its new and shiny so everyone who can is going to play with it.


I keep seeing well lotr does it this way and that way and thats what I want.

Hate to burst your bubble but this isnt LotR. Take whatever folder you have in your brain and toss it in the garbage.
While there are similarities and some that have purged over the wall with some people still thinking we have Hobbits, the Realms is not Tolkiens realm.

Sure ive read the books and seen the movies for LotR and loved them. But thats where it stops. There is a LotR server, I think last time I noticed they had like 8 players. So obviously not alot of people come here to play LotR.

Faerun and the Realms have so many more toys and our teams are letting us play with some of them. But saying I want it to be like Tolkien, is the wrong way of thinking, since you can go play Tolkiens style server and yet you are here.


As long as players with fancy toys know the lore behind the fancy toys, I say let them do their thing and out of twenty maybe two will make it past the 3 month mark from creation.

The UD is not a garbage dump, Kenku for it was brought up several times are not an Underdark race. Honestly they would be on roasting spits for the Drow if they made it that far.

Should there be some shiny toy tweaks, yes ive seen a few things that need tweaking, but they are minor and one of the major ones if you know about it can be fixed in the entry portal.

Again give things time to settle down and more power to Grumpy and the Teams giving us all the shiny toys!

[Wrips]

so despite all the fancy sub races Quick to Master became even more OP. It's really hard to beat an extra feat and 1 skill pt/ level in a squeezed build environment.

I don't think you know what OP means. Humans are the most versatile race (as it is in lore) due to the extra feat, but there are plenty of races that do what they do better. Elves (and drow) make better mages, some-halfgiants make better clerics, orogs/duergar/dwarves make better fighters/barbarians. Elves make better archers. Halflings make better rogues. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

You gotta quit those toxic discords spouting nonsense, fam. If for anything but that they're wrong on at least the base mechanical assumptions about humans.

Ha, I didn't get that from any discord nor am I really sure which server i would even find that discussion on. A number of the tweaks on Arelith have the effect of making both feats and skillpoints more valuable than other places. As an example, lower/standardized magic means no immunity to kd items and no items with a high buff to discipline. Now a good melee build needs to have esf discipline, costing an extra feat. Change scrolls to lore, climb, ride, sail, high umd gatekeeping, all adds up to skill points being more dear and valuable despite getting the extra 2. These are just examples, you can probably think of some too.

Keen senses alone >> human bonus

[Hazard]

I don't think you know what OP means. Humans are the most versatile race (as it is in lore) due to the extra feat, but there are plenty of races that do what they do better. Elves (and drow) make better mages, some-halfgiants make better clerics, orogs/duergar/dwarves make better fighters/barbarians. Elves make better archers. Halflings make better rogues. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

You gotta quit those toxic discords spouting nonsense, fam. If for anything but that they're wrong on at least the base mechanical assumptions about humans.

Ha, I didn't get that from any discord nor am I really sure which server i would even find that discussion on. A number of the tweaks on Arelith have the effect of making both feats and skillpoints more valuable than other places. As an example, lower/standardized magic means no immunity to kd items and no items with a high buff to discipline. Now a good melee build needs to have esf discipline, costing an extra feat. Change scrolls to lore, climb, ride, sail, high umd gatekeeping, all adds up to skill points being more dear and valuable despite getting the extra 2. These are just examples, you can probably think of some too.

Keen senses alone >> human bonus

Is this true?
Can you tell me why, and word it in such a way that even a potato brain could understand?
Genuinely curious.

[DM MoonMoon]

Personally I would like to see more distrust from PCs and NPCs on races such as Kenku and Tiefling.
They have reputations that make them untrustworthy, which sometimes is not fairly associated!

Reputations for Kenku are usually, will rob you, stab you in the back for anything shiny. They usually live on the outskirts of human settlements:

They tended to be selfish and secretive in nature and were often engaged in plots to acquire wealth and power. They operated in small gangs and often lived in large human cities,

Reputations for Tiefling usually follow the whole "They have fiendish blood, who knows when they will follow it and cause mayhem" Usually ending in a self fullfilled stereotype:
"They all see me as bad, and treat me like i have done a crime, so why dont I just prove them right?" They tend to do bad because people think they will.. which furthers the sterotype.

Eh... She's a tiefling, chief. They got fiend blood in their veins, usually 'cause some ancestor of theirs shared knickers with one demon or another. Makes some of 'em addled in the head... and addled-looking, too.

I have seen a lot of "Your welcome here" or "Your banned from this city"
But I hardly see players doing the side glances, untrusted views, or being uneasy around odd or sometimes infamous creatures.

[Liareth]

I definitely feel the zoo sentiment. It feels like there are, proportionally, way too many unique PCs with outwardly monstrous appearance/features roaming around these days. Encountering a mundane human feels more surprising to me. Disclaimer: I just started playing recently after many years away.

[The GrumpyCat]

As others have said, I'm not sure 'now' is the best time to judge. I'm not saying people are wrong per se, but a) a lot of people are still trying out these new races, this should die down a little as things go on. and b) the award change, giving a cooldown on awards, should slow down how fast people earn majors/greaters ect.

[Zanithar]

It is probably worth considering:
1. We always see a jump in subscription to the the "new cool race". Firbolgs hit so quickly they were moved from Greater to Major within a couple of days of being released. And like every other "new cool race" and "new cool class" we should anticipate seeing the number of subscribers deteriorate over time.
2. New race release happened post "nerf award mechanics" meaning we should also assume a bunch of shelved characters, that likely would have remained shelved until someone had a reason to roll them got rolled ... because we were given an exceedingly strong level of motivation to do so.

So, I imagine we will see a cooldown as the hype falls away and a further cooldown as the impact of the awards nerf settles in.

I also want to add, I am not a big fan of locking everything down. I personally detest the desire by people to enforce their view of RP and options on other people. A list of things that should be application only or locked is several steps back to a worse place for me and I am not keen on going there just because someone else has inflexible RP. I also find that when you force people into your RP model, you get exceptionally bad RP from most of the people that do not want to be there.

Granted, there will be people RPing these new races badly, but that is no change from those same people RPing a normal race badly. Does it really make such a tremendous difference to anyone? On the other hand, there will be some people that have invigorated RP using these new races and that ... THAT is the cool bit and the bit that should be applauded.

Anyway, my thoughts on the matter.

[Algol]

Wanting applications etc. is not about controlling how or what people RP(For me at least). It's about integrity of the setting. The same reason we do not allow kobolds, gnolls, drow etc. on surface cities even if they have proven them selves to be good people would be an example of enforcing server integrity. I doubt many of any thinks this as RP elitism.