Shaman Spirits

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

So, RP wise, do they make you an evil necromancer?

Are there animal TN spirit streams (which would make sense)?

[xf1313]

Necromancy spells does not equal to evil. A good or neutral caster can and probably will study it. There are many reasons you can just come up with some. Certain characters or deities will have strong attitude towards undead summoning and it is a part of the game, just make sure you are rping something you like.

Shaman are a bit special, I will boldly assume people are less bothered by spirit rat than a zombies...who cares what happen to dead animals save those Druids? LOL

When I am playing priest of Morninglord, undead? DIEEEEE. But a power hungry wizard, undead? Sure, why not, cheap labour, good disposable meat shield.

[Twohand]

So, RP wise, do they make you an evil necromancer?

Are there animal TN spirit streams (which would make sense)?

In DnD, the word spirit can mean many things. We can use the explanation given by the Complete Divine sourcebook, where the 3.5 Spirit Shaman class comes from. According to it, the word spirit can be used to describe: all incorporeal undead, all fey, all elementals, creatures in astral form/bodies, creatures with the spirit subtype, spirit-folk and telthors, and spirit creatures created by spells like dream sight and wood wose.

But I do have a feeling you want to talk about the Beast Spirit stream. So, animal spirits are natural things of the natural world, there's nothing shady about them. Here's a relevant small quote from Elves of Evermeet:

"...the Green elves also revere a pantheon of wilderness spirits embodied in animals, such as eagles and bears."

With this said, examine the Beast Spirit summons. There's nothing natural about them, they are twisted and corrupted animals. To me, they're closer to wraiths than the more "peaceful" (we all know how violent nature actually is) spirits worshiped by the Green Elves in the previous quote. They also don't look like product of the more conventional benign ways to employ the aid of an animal spirit (like contacting with rituals the spirit to ask for help), but rather they seem like they are the ghosts of slain animals purposefully reanimated with necromancy, which is why to me they feel like wraiths in animal form.

Sorrowkitten made the streams and this is only my personal opinion on the subject, you should wait to see if she writes a response too.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Ye, you pretty much explained it like I would have. They're twisted mockeries of what they were in life.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Ye, you pretty much explained it like I would have. They're twisted mockeries of what they were in life.

So basically, They are bad and could get you into RP trouble.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Ye, you pretty much explained it like I would have. They're twisted mockeries of what they were in life.

So basically, They are bad and could get you into RP trouble.

They are undead and if you examine them you can see that on the description. It's down to IC interpretation.

[Griefmaker]

Ahhh...that is definitely too bad. My first thought when I heard "beast spirits" for shaman was that all shaman were finally going to be able to explore the spirit aspect which is prevalent in so many cultures and not just evil alone.

[Good Character]

prevalent in so many cultures

I was going to say just that. While technically and objectively evil for the streams, it could be perceived otherwise based on the cultural approach to it.

You will always have people dismissing the concept that they're ancestors or embodiment of ancestors, or simply spirits from another realm coming to the aid of the summoner in a truly benevolent, wanting way. However, nothing should stop people from trying.

I don't want to speak for the DM-staff, but in my opinion simply and only summoning undead spirits (whom your character maybe interpret as something else) will not force your alignment to shift directly to evil.

[Hinty]

Animal/Nature spirits in FR are not undead, they are fey.

Sure, you can have zombies and skeletons or ghosts of animals, however a nature spirit is a very different thing, and naming the stream this way is just going to cause unnecessary confusion. The trouble is that many players may not realise the difference, not to mention non-native English speakers may not realise that the word has multiple meanings, which will result in characters that should know better declaring the summons to be something they are not.

We will have two characters who should both know that the summons are undead and unnatural coming to blows because one of the players assumes they are normal nature spirits.


If they are undead, their names should reflect that (Ghost/Wraith etc.) if they are corrupted nature spirits then they should not be undead, or summoned with the undead spells. (also named accordingly, and Shamen should have access to actual nature spirit summon lines before the corrupted ones get added.)

tldr:
If they are nature spirits they should not be summoned by undead spells.
If they are Undead, they should not be called spirits.
It is fine if characters refer to them as spirits IC, but the OOC mechanical name over their head should be a clear indication of what they are.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Animal/Nature spirits in FR are not undead, they are fey.

Sure, you can have zombies and skeletons or ghosts of animals, however a nature spirit is a very different thing, and naming the stream this way is just going to cause unnecessary confusion. The trouble is that many players may not realise the difference, not to mention non-native English speakers may not realise that the word has multiple meanings, which will result in characters that should know better declaring the summons to be something they are not.

We will have two characters who should both know that the summons are undead and unnatural coming to blows because one of the players assumes they are normal nature spirits.


If they are undead, their names should reflect that (Ghost/Wraith etc.) if they are corrupted nature spirits then they should not be undead, or summoned with the undead spells. (also named accordingly, and Shamen should have access to actual nature spirit summon lines before the corrupted ones get added.)

tldr:
If they are nature spirits they should not be summoned by undead spells.
If they are Undead, they should not be called spirits.
It is fine if characters refer to them as spirits IC, but the OOC mechanical name over their head should be a clear indication of what they are.

quite agree, Characters on Arelith see often things black and white, It would be sad to ban an entire concept like this to the darkness.

[Xerah]

Taking the feat “mummy dust” should be your first clue.

Regular shaman summons show up as glowy for the spirit stuff that’s being mentioned here. You can certainly have corrupted animal spirits as is the case with mummy dust.

[Griefmaker]

Taking the feat “mummy dust” should be your first clue.

Regular shaman summons show up as glowy for the spirit stuff that’s being mentioned here. You can certainly have corrupted animal spirits as is the case with mummy dust.

Totally forgot about the shaman summons showing up glowy. As far as mummy dust goes, it would not have been the first time Arelith used a feat/skill for something other than what it was called.

But all is good! I am glad to see more flavor and exciting stuff with spirits, ghosts, etc. IG.

[Xerah]

For context.

It’s the whole reason why planar conduct was created rather than modifying mummy dust to give “good options”—to keep them separate.

I’ve got a character that I’ve always played as a druid who does stuff with those corrupted spirits but it would make a great shaman with these new summons now.

[Ebonstar]

My level 30 shaman is LN and has always explained her spirit friends that come to aid her when called. never undead btw. planar conduit gives spirit formians which also fit