Woodcuts: Too costly in crafting points

[Peachoo]

Hello!

I am currently in the process of trying to mass copy a library of 800+ books ig because... library.

It has become acutely clear to me that making wood cuts is just.. so, so so costly.

To make the actual book, it is 1 crafting point at a dc of 1.

Bulk wood cuts are 3 dc with /30/ crafting points.


It's just so unfun to have to go grind 50+ wood, only to spend most of it trying to make woodcuts with most of it, only to go grind like 50 more just to have a decent amount of blank books to use for copying. by the time you return to a station with the last 50 to make books.. your points aren't regenerated yet and you can't.

Crafting points regenerate so slowly, that I'm constantly in limbo trying to complete this massive project that will ultimatley help generate rp, but generates zero rp for me that I have to spend so much of my ooc time on just because it takes so many points to make a barely decent amount of wood cuts.

I'd suggest maybe some npcs that sell woodcuts/blank books. These items don't contribute to anything other than books, so it feels like that would be a great solution to this crafting problem.

Basically, I feel like this creates too big of a time sync and problem that doesn't generate rp. I play casually and frankly don't have enough time IRL to constantly do nothing but go grind wood and sit around waiting for cp. I feel like adding an npc or doing something like adjusting the crafting point cost would help tremendously.

[Pippo]

A good way to generate RP could be to involve people about gathering softwood and having them also produce woodcuts? Most characters can spend one (1) trade point in carpentry.

You are still trying to create a whole library with only one person. If you can't do it IRL, it shouldn't be automatically doable by snapping your fingers online either.

[BananaShipRepublic]

A good way to generate RP

When it comes to crafting, the RP generated is often repetitive and quite literally a quantity over quality. Yea, subletting out the work generates RP. literally everything generates RP

is it fun RP? after the first few woodcuts, no it isn't. it loses the magic when you do it enough times to assign an exponent to the #

If you can't do it IRL, it shouldn't be automatically doable by snapping your fingers online either.

It in fact, can be done in real life.

[Xerah]

This doesn't really take that long.

Assuming you've invested points into wood, that's 15 cp, that regen every 2.5 h. Softwood is easier than hardwood to find and at most, you'd need 3 trees for each 10 or just buy it from the city (it's almost always in supply). Let's assume you can spend your points 4 times a day.

You could get like 30 x 4 = 120 per day with limited effort.

You're making 800 books, that's going to take some time anyway. Ask for gold, ask for help supplying wood, etc. That's what generate the RP. If we do this, then why not put glass in shops?

[BananaShipRepublic]

Glass is busywork. OP's conundrum is busywork. Busywork might generate RP, but it's not the kind of story that is going end up in one of those books. I play Arelith to escape the busywork I'm saddled with in real life.

[Xerah]

Then what's the point of the crafting system at all? We're not going to no crafting system because they're nothing else to replace it. I understand not wanting to do what you may think is busy work, so, then don't do those things. You could say the same thing about the levelling process, that's busy work.

Collecting resources and crafting things is a type of RP that might be fun for some people. Same with making a library with 800 books is fun for someone else.

It's the whole point of the crafting system. Additionally, the amount of work that goes into making things is what makes them interesting.

[BananaShipRepublic]

Can we stop with the slippery slope fallacy? Lowering the crafting points on the woodcuts is not going to break the crafting system.

[Xerah]

No, because it’s the exact same arguments for the entire system existing.

[BananaShipRepublic]

It's really not. Your argument is "If we lower the CP on the woodcutts we might as well scrap the whole system because what's the point of it?"

When in reality all that would happen is you could make more woodcutts in the same amount of time and it isn't such a drag.

It's honestly baffling.

[Xerah]

This is a feed back forum, not a suggestion forum. People give feedback; I’m providing feedback. You’ve created this new account just to be aggressive towards anyone with an opinion that’s different from your own. That’s what’s actually baffling. If this conversation continues to invoke this response, we’ll just lock the thread.

The system will still be a drag if it costs slightly less cp. there is no getting around that. I’d love glass to take less cp too. I’m sure everyone can toss out something they wish was less.

[Rei_Jin]

Feels a little dumb to me that to make an entire Amber Tacklebox, as an example, costs 24 crafting points, but a woodcut costs 30.

[Good Character]

Crafting is where the dissonance between full-time players and casual players is inflated. The issue with a persistent world is eventually in some field the full-time players are going to come out ahead. Sadly the crafting system falls into this hole due to the fact you need both the resources and crafting points to make something. An attempt at bridging the gap has been made by allowing people to passively gain CP even when logged off, and there are items in-game that entirely restore your CP.

I do firmly believe that some crafts do need their CP cost scaled down (e.g. spell components, glass, greensteel weapons/armor) and ironically some need to be raised (e.g. scroll cases, jewelry boxes), however I don't think woodcuts fall into either of those categories.

Feels a little dumb to me that to make an entire Amber Tacklebox, as an example, costs 24 crafting points, but a woodcut costs 30.

A single woodcut costs 3 CP.

[Rei_Jin]

Ah, my bad! That's what I get for not reading too closely

[Mattamue]

and there are items in-game that entirely restore your CP.

Uh, what?

[BananaShipRepublic]

Uh, what?

+1

[Rei_Jin]

There are, but they are very difficult to get, and they are consumables.

[Good Character]

Yeah, I will admit they're not worth what people sell them for.

For those wondering they're sailing-specific obtainables. I wish they were charge-based instead of a one-time use.

[Rei_Jin]

AND, you have to unstack them, or a single use will consume multiple for no benefit. Especially irritating as it's a potion

[neverwinternightly]

So, I don't have a ton of feedback about woodcut CP cost other than thinking... it's not that bad? But I'm still pretty grateful about the fact the DC to craft them is no longer 15. That was true pain for any librarian with only a value point in carpentry.

Mostly just posting to echo the sentiment that you really should try and get some people involved if it's becoming too much! About a year ago I spearheaded an effort to copy over 1100 books IC, and I will absolutely agree that it's an exhausting monster to try and take on alone.

While you won't get the best, most substantive RP of your life out of it, it can be pretty cool getting others involved with your huge project! I had somewhere between 5-7 people cutting trees for me, another pair helping with harnak, another helping with blank books, and another helping make woodcuts. It STILL took a few weeks to pull off.

And yeah, that's a lot of time and effort, but that's how such a project is meant to be, isn't it?

[Peachoo]

Glass is busywork. OP's conundrum is busywork. Busywork might generate RP, but it's not the kind of story that is going end up in one of those books. I play Arelith to escape the busywork I'm saddled with in real life.

This. I wasn't really going to come back here and read replies until I received messages on discord about it.

I came to give my feedback on it and that was that. It's okay if my opinion is unpopular. No one has to be right or wrong here because that's what feed back is. Opinions given back from the playerbase on mechanical features the team has developed.

For me, I don't want to spend 4+ hours waiting for my cp to regenerate and it's *not* fun rp to sit there and spend that time convincing other people to spend their limited cp on my monolith of a project.

Furthermore.. the 'rp' that is generated is a 5 minute conversation where someone goes 'yay' or 'nay' and then the next 30 minutes is me copying books silently at a printing press until I run out of wood cuts or books.

Anyway, as far as consumables go to restore points- people sell those at exorbitant prices because sailing is the only way to get them and not everyone has access to a boat. Also, I don't want to do sailing. I don't have time, and unpopular I know, I don't find it a fun avenue of rp. Sure it's got great benefits, but I rather spend my time fighting creepy entities or telling stories ig or exploring old areas than sit on a boat all day. And that's fine! Personal choice! It just means I don't have access to that sort of thing.

And I don't think I'm really alone in that. There's plenty of players who don't want to participate in the sailing system. Also, this is not a rag on the sailing system. I think the team did an excellent job coding it! I just don't find 'sailing' in particular fun.

I'm not really looking for solutions here to be given to me because this is a feedback forum- though I do appreciate all of your comments trying to help! You can disagree with my opinion, that's absolutely okay too. Though I'd ask ya'll keep it more civil please.

[msheeler]

For me, I don't want to spend 4+ hours waiting for my cp to regenerate and it's *not* fun rp to sit there and spend that time convincing other people to spend their limited cp on my monolith of a project.

Regarding this point here - I have crafted a lot, I mean a lot during my time here on Arelith and the way I tackle this particular point of the game is to relegate this to a side gig.

What I mean is that while the over all arch of my personal story might involve a lot of crafting - your story seems to be one of "I am working to create duplicates of an entire library of books", this should become more of your "side gig". Find another story that you can do/create/be a part of that does not involve the crafting. Then you make those 10 minute runs to gather some wood and craft that into wood cuts when there are lulls in the second story line you have going on.

For example - maybe you take an in character job serving at the local tavern, or maybe you start organizing random expeditions into the jungles to find lost relics, or what ever else you feel fits for your character. Then when you have a break in that you go get 20 units of soft wood and make them into 20 wood cuts.

Another way to do this is to do it in the off-line time. This means that you might take 30 minutes one day and go gather 50-100 units of soft wood and stick it in a storage container at your quarters or in a bank vault. Then sometime through out your RL day you find 5 minutes to log on, grab 10 units of wood, toss it onto a woodworking bench, make ten wood cuts, and log off. Then this becomes more of the work you've done while "not logged on".

Anyways that is how I have dealt with it and it has served me well for a good while. I still get to do lots of fun RP, while I also get to create fun and interesting things.

[Edens_Fall]

Yeah, I will admit they're not worth what people sell them for.

For those wondering they're sailing-specific obtainables. I wish they were charge-based instead of a one-time use.

Really!? That's pretty neat to learn. Sailing has some pretty fancy loot these days.

[Xarge VI]

To answer the argument about crafting being busy work instead of RP.

I get that sometimes it feels frustrating, but most of the time it can be used to bolster rp. While creating hundred woodcuts for a local librarian might not be an epic story I think it is a more natural way to create in game relationships than going to the settlement Hub and saying "I'm looking for friends". The character you hire will be involved in creation of a library.

Especially with something as low dc as printing woodcuts, going out to the town to look for a carpenter or just putting an advert on the local message board your character might just end up with an apprentice librarian. Or they might not- But the potential is there.