New Drinks - Herbalism by MoonMoon

[Tabby]

Hello!
When i saw this update i was exited, i have some feedback.

I currently can only find 3 out of the ten new drinks in the herbalism crafting table
Ripplebark Beer
Yarrow Beer
Fresh Mead

But i cant find the rest, are they tied to a class, or are they simply missing

I love this new herbalism, as i play a character that loves to sit by the fire, and cook, before heading onwards. These new beers and drinks is such a great idea.

Might it be a bug that dont let em show in the crafting table menu?

[The GrumpyCat]

This was a bug, it should be fixed after next reset.... well the reset after you posted this anyway. So maybe already? Let us knwo if it isn't, or you spot any other bugs.

[Cagus]

I cannot find those items on PGCC, so it cannot be tested.

But I wanted to ask, how brewing those will interact with brew potion feat.

[DM MoonMoon]

In this iteration, Brew potion does not affect the new Drinks.
But I do have plans for the Herbalism potions

And yes, as Grumpy pointed out, there was a issue with a couple of Drinks (was my bad missing a value!) but that has been resolved and the reset has been done!

As for PGCE, I am unsure when they will get in there for crafting, I will have to defer to the more experienced Devs.

[Baseili]

Brew potion does seem to effect Rice Wine, though that is labelled under brewed potions rather than drinks.

[chocolatelover]

My only feedback so far...

Why do some of these drinks require a bottle of water AND a glass bottle? I mean, where does the bottle from the water go? Shouldn't you be able to use that bottle?

[chocolatelover]

More feedback....

1. The herbology stations no longer recognize that I have put bottles of water in. No matter what... a single bottle of water, a stack of water, it says I have zero water in. I tried two different stations and multiple recipes. Worked last night when I made coffee.

2. Found a bee hive outside Guldorand but cannot access it? We tried Examine and Use and then bashing. It says Unable to ReachTarget. The beehive appears to be partially placed inside a rock outcropping which may be part of the problem.

[Scylon]

Howdy, still testing theses however my initial insights are:

1) I have noticed not all the potions seem to have a 2nd effect. I'm not sure if this is intended or not? (DM me if you want the list thus far, not sure what is and isn't classed as FOIG so won't post here)

2) I'd recommend increasing the buff durations to be 2-3 hours. 1 is very short short and from a RP perspective it is drink and bolt before it runs out. Where as 3 hours would would allow for a bit of follow up RP etc.

3) As stated above having a bottle of water, then needing another bottle seems a bit counter intuitive? anything with a water base probably shouldn't need the bottle.

4) This one is more of a personal observation on the crafting system as a whole. I think Alchemy and Herbalists need to be shifted/renamed. They cross over in some areas, fine, but alchemy should be changed to chemist. Herbalist would be what it is now, using natural materials to make potions, poisons, drinks, cooking etc. Where Chemist (alchemy) seems more focused on advanced non buff related chemical items - Bombs, materials, essences etc.

[Kuma]

1. The herbology stations no longer recognize that I have put bottles of water in. No matter what... a single bottle of water, a stack of water, it says I have zero water in. I tried two different stations and multiple recipes. Worked last night when I made coffee.

This sounds like an incorrect item tag on the Water, you might have better luck clearing your inventory of Water and finding Loot water OR buying from an NPC (not in stacks).

Alternatively, it may be the recipe itself is using the wrong item tag. Impossible to test playerside, sadly.

also, *herbalism, this isn't harry potter

4) This one is more of a personal observation on the crafting system as a whole. I think Alchemy and Herbalists need to be shifted/renamed. They cross over in some areas, fine, but alchemy should be changed to chemist. Herbalist would be what it is now, using natural materials to make potions, poisons, drinks, cooking etc. Where Chemist (alchemy) seems more focused on advanced non buff related chemical items - Bombs, materials, essences etc.

That's still definitely Alchemy to me, and Alchemy was the term for Chemistry before the dawn of the scientific method.

[DM MoonMoon]

Unread post by chocolatelover » 10 Oct 2022 01:50

More feedback....

1. The herbology stations no longer recognize that I have put bottles of water in. No matter what... a single bottle of water, a stack of water, it says I have zero water in. I tried two different stations and multiple recipes. Worked last night when I made coffee.

2. Found a bee hive outside Guldorand but cannot access it? We tried Examine and Use and then bashing. It says Unable to ReachTarget. The beehive appears to be partially placed inside a rock outcropping which may be part of the problem.

Thank you Chocolatelover:
The water not being detected by anything sounds like they are not having the correct tags on the water, rather than the table itself. As its cheap to get, I recommend like the other post, remove the water you have and get some new from a shop.

I will check the bee hive and move it, thanks for spotting.

by Scylon » 10 Oct 2022 02:10

Howdy, still testing theses however my initial insights are:

1) I have noticed not all the potions seem to have a 2nd effect. I'm not sure if this is intended or not? (DM me if you want the list thus far, not sure what is and isn't classed as FOIG so won't post here)

2) I'd recommend increasing the buff durations to be 2-3 hours. 1 is very short short and from a RP perspective it is drink and bolt before it runs out. Where as 3 hours would would allow for a bit of follow up RP etc.

3) As stated above having a bottle of water, then needing another bottle seems a bit counter intuitive? anything with a water base probably shouldn't need the bottle.

4) This one is more of a personal observation on the crafting system as a whole. I think Alchemy and Herbalists need to be shifted/renamed. They cross over in some areas, fine, but alchemy should be changed to chemist. Herbalist would be what it is now, using natural materials to make potions, poisons, drinks, cooking etc. Where Chemist (alchemy) seems more focused on advanced non buff related chemical items - Bombs, materials, essences etc.

The wiki will state which has a Tavern bonus by: *Speciality drink
The ones that do not are Yarrow Fruit Tea and Sparkling Holy Water. (and the already established ones) The announcement did mention Tavern bonus is only on the 8

The timer will be reviewed, thank you for your input on this, Tweaking times and numbers is a thing going forward on this new idea.

The thing with water req. or not.. its the same argument even if its not in the list:
"Why cant I just drink this water/potion/drink and use the bottle again for this recipe"
Could be that the water bottle is not the right size/shape or is one use to open?
We could always update the water icon to just a water bottle (leather looking one)
But your feedback is seen and we are discussing it whether to have water or not.

Alchemy has always been more to the "magical" side of things, with Herbalism more "natural" But we can always see about making them more distinctive!




Thank you for observations and feedback so far

[stoneheart-]

Could these also be made to work in quarters? A lot of private quarters I've been in have a "bar" area either module-placed or created by players with fixtures, especially the noble houses. I'm pretty sure someone has made a "bar and restaurant" out of the windmill house/shop in the Cordor Farmlands, for example.

[stoneheart-]

Sorry to double post, but could these please be made stackable? If they're not stackable they're almost impossible to stockpile for events/parties/whatever. They also cost a decent amount of craft points (4+ per individual bottle) which makes crafting in bulk on the day of an event impossible too. They are also a nightmare to stock in shops, as each liquor takes up its own slot, rather than one slot for each individual stack of the same type of liquor.

I get the sentiment behind them being non-stackable, I just dont think it works in practice. The drinks are really fun and I want to use them but they're just so impractical that it's hard to justify carrying them. Taking away the mechanical effects of the beverages is really enough to discourage people from using them outside taverns, so making them unstackable really only hurts people trying to use them for RP, especially RP events.

[Azensor]

Sorry to double post, but could these please be made stackable? If they're not stackable they're almost impossible to stockpile for events/parties/whatever. They also cost a decent amount of craft points (4+ per individual bottle) which makes crafting in bulk on the day of an event impossible too. They are also a nightmare to stock in shops, as each liquor takes up its own slot, rather than one slot for each individual stack of the same type of liquor.

I get the sentiment behind them being non-stackable, I just dont think it works in practice. The drinks are really fun and I want to use them but they're just so impractical that it's hard to justify carrying them. Taking away the mechanical effects of the beverages is really enough to discourage people from using them outside taverns, so making them unstackable really only hurts people trying to use them for RP, especially RP events.

Honestly? Far has i can tell the new drinks are for a very specific sort of rp/use, outside of that..eh

[stoneheart-]

Also if these are going to remain unstackable, could a "Rename All" and "Describe all" function be added? Adding custom names and descriptions to one's brewed drinks is a big pain.

[chocolatelover]

Seriously, what is up with the no-stacking? Oh, no someone might hoard a 200 gp drink?! That will ruin the economy! Sure, it's okay to keep mithril and arjale in stacks of 100, but not these drinks that you can barely sell and take up all your inventory. CAn we at least have them in stacks of 10 or 20???

[The GrumpyCat]

Some of these drinks have actually rather powerful abilities, IMO, for a relitivly cheep output. A way of balencing that and ensuring people don't have a perminent +1 regen because they're swigging 100 bottles of drink, is to make it impossible to carry that many bottles.
Whilst I can see an argument for adding a small, limited stack size - especailly to the immedate healing ones, (say, 5 or 6?) I think keeping the max low is a wise idea.

[chocolatelover]

Some of these drinks have actually rather powerful abilities, IMO, for a relitivly cheep output. A way of balencing that and ensuring people don't have a perminent +1 regen because they're swigging 100 bottles of drink, is to make it impossible to carry that many bottles.
Whilst I can see an argument for adding a small, limited stack size - especailly to the immedate healing ones, (say, 5 or 6?) I think keeping the max low is a wise idea.

But people stack scrolls and other potions with no problem. Why can't these at least stack to 5 or 10?

[The GrumpyCat]

Some of these drinks have actually rather powerful abilities, IMO, for a relitivly cheep output. A way of balencing that and ensuring people don't have a perminent +1 regen because they're swigging 100 bottles of drink, is to make it impossible to carry that many bottles.
Whilst I can see an argument for adding a small, limited stack size - especailly to the immedate healing ones, (say, 5 or 6?) I think keeping the max low is a wise idea.

But people stack scrolls and other potions with no problem. Why can't these at least stack to 5 or 10?

I'm sorry but I think I rather answered this above? They are too powerful. Remember that powerful scrolls require Lore use, are expensive in terms of gold to create, and don't do anything that a powerful mage can't also accomplish. The ingredients of these potions are significanly cheeper, and produce unique effects. The fact they don't stack is a balencing method.

[Tabby]

I dont see it as a problem, shops has increased capacity of +10, before it was 20, now is 30. Use a little space for a couple of potions. Or better, are you a herbalist, make em as you venture on.

Something is being added, be glad, why all this negative attitude, i feeling sorry for the devs that use FREE TIME to add things too you all.

[Peacelily]

Can guarentee, some tinder and I can make a bunch more mid-mission.
And I've done that.
Swipe right on your herbalist. Tindr.

[The GrumpyCat]

Can guarentee, some tinder and I can make a bunch more mid-mission.
And I've done that.
Swipe right on your herbalist. Tindr.

Honestly, whilst I do entirely get and understand the dislike of the fact they don't stack - this above is a really cool thing, IMO. It's a neat feature that means that you almost want 'fresh' drinks with you. I kinda like it. The idea the party stops whilst someone brews everyone up a cup of tea.

[Scylon]

Problems with stacking go away and adds incentive to RP if the durations of these are increased.

As I said previously, if I take the time to drink one in a tavern, even without RP it is likely to run out after a few groups of mobs.

[chocolatelover]

I dont see it as a problem, shops has increased capacity of +10, before it was 20, now is 30. Use a little space for a couple of potions. Or better, are you a herbalist, make em as you venture on.


Sorry, the drinks are nice, but my PC made a bunch and can't sell them at even rock bottom prices so now she's lugging a gazillion drinks around. Gave out free samples to get people interested even, but no one seems to be impressed at all. She has to use temp stalls so this has become very frustrating.

[riffraff]

I wonder if part of the problem with selling them is people not knowing what they do. When you can see a regular potion casts a specific spell on you just by looking at it in a shop inventory, looking at one of the speciality drinks makes it seem like it's just a regular ol' drink.

I've tried changing the names and descriptions of a couple to see if that helps, but seeing as I'm still limited to IC descriptions, I'm not sure how many takers I'll get. My character can write on a label that a drink has regenerative properties, but that doesn't mean yours will believe it. Or even understand what that means.

I do like the experimental nature of this, though - it's fun making a concotion and then testing it on yourself to see what it does. It might not be great commercially unless/until this becomes more established, but it's a fun idea. It is also nice to have a reason to make a fire in the woods to do some brewing, something I haven't done in a long while now.

[mourisson1]

Something is being added, be glad, why all this negative attitude, i feeling sorry for the devs that use FREE TIME to add things too you all.

People should realise that the fact that something was made for free doesnt necessary make the result good. It doesnt relate at all. You can do a lot of crap in your free time, and it will be still a crap, sorry. I also don't think it's good to just hide the negative feedback, because the things were done in someones free time. If someone uses his free time to do something, he probably likes doing it. If he likes doing it, he probably wants to get better at it. And you will not get better if everyone will just hide their negative feelings and criticism and say "hey this is perfect, because you made it in your free time." So no. I dont feel sorry that someone invested their free time and received negative feedback, because if it's constructive feedback, it means that the person who invested his free time invested it into improving himself and learning from the things he made badly.

The other thing is that if someone disagrees, provides critisism etc, and person who made it tries to explain why it was made that way, it will also make the person iterate over his design in his head, and he might even find improvements of it.

So overall, try to remember that if many many years ago, someone made a square wheel in his free time, and no one would criticise it because it was free, we'd be screwed.

Just to note, I do appreciate the amount of time people are willing to invest into arelith. I may not always agree with designs, I may not agree as to which projects they chose, and that is perfectly okay, because it's their call, it's their time. But I still think that providing feedback and offering other view on a design of something is worthwhile, and thus if devs are receiving constructive criticism on their results, I see it as a good thing.