Potion of Attunement: A bit too good

[Choofed]

Hey there guys,

I'm writing feedback today on attunement potions and how I presently believe they're a bit too good and may need adjustment.

First, lets go over how attunement potions presently work:

A simple checksum is made, asking if the person is presently considered in combat and if the area is teleport warded. If they are not, at the start of next round, they are teleported to the appropriate attunement transition with no VFX or notification to other players apart from them just disappearing.

There is, in my testing, no damage buffer to cancel the effect. It just happens, with the only reactionary counter being a 1 round kill.

I would say, with how they currently work, they're simply too effective. Too often when someone finds themselves in a tense situation where they hang around, or are caught being somewhere or doing something they shouldn't, they can sip the attunement potion and escape any consequence.

It's also narratively jarring. People are not making a dramatic escape, they just drink a potion and unless you can 1 round them they're gone. Often, people just drink them straight up if they get the OOC notification their disguise has been popped in a bad spot or if they just got caught breaking into someone's quarter.

They exist unlike portal lenses, where the menu won't show up if you're in combat, so people can't reactively play against them unless they just 1 round murder you.

To this end I propose the following:

• When a potion of attunement is drunk, an effect begins that lasts for 12 seconds (2 rounds.)

• A VFX is shown when a potion of attunement is used, so people are notified what people are actually doing.

• A “buffer” of 100 damage is made, which if broken, ends the potion of attunement’s effect and they are not teleported.

• The effect of the potion of attunement sits at the top of the breach list, and can be breached off as well. If so, you are not teleported

• Drinking the potion should lower your sobriety by -70, so that you can’t use this for a damage buffer in PVP, as it would share resources with heal pots.

• If the effect has lasted the full 12 seconds, and if it’s buffer is >0, they do teleport

Or, if the scripting doesn’t permit, something similar to this.

I believe this would allow appropriate counterplay to potions of attunement, where you would have to buy yourself 12 seconds to make the clean break with them.

Even if my proposal does not make the mark, I do ask we have a wider discussion on perhaps some methods on making these items a bit more refined than they currently are. There are presently some honestly stupid antics you can get up to with them.

Thank you, I look forward to the replies on the thread and I do ask people to be cordial.

[Sincra]

I was consulted on feasability and I believe the idea has merit even if partitioned.

It is a fact that the counters are unclear beyond a ward so an effect while it charges is a good idea.

[JustMonika]

So,

Issue - Escaping from PvP encounters is too easy.

Reason - Potions of Attunement are really good at this.

Decision - Nerf Attunement.

Thus my thoughts center on the issue.

/Is/ this an issue? Should people be forced into situations where they get killed more often?

If so, this seems like a perfectly reasonable fix.

My two cents are probably that Arelith's death system and concequences are so utterly trival at this point, there's no reason not to make it harder to escape from PvP as the concequences of being killed are really not that serious.

[Yvesza]

I really do think that potions of attunement as a method of escape really do make people feel overly safe in situations that otherwise should be very tense, it feels a lot like the threat of certain actions (A drow walking into a surface city) are relatively minor because one shady glug and six seconds later and you're on the express train to safety.

Just because the consequences of being defeated are minor, I don't think that we should encourage people ignoring danger and threats to their life because they have a fancy lemonade of vanishment in their pocket. I'd appreciate people having some semblance of respect for the setting, which I feel like potions of attunement give people an easy out to stop taking many risks seriously.

[Eyeliner]

I think it's fine if escape is easy. Forcing someone to flee is victory enough and I'd rather see extended cat and mouse antics than repeated PVP.

[Morgy]

There's a balance to be had, but people also PUT themselves into very dangerous situations that they can vanish from without consequence.. that's not realistic.

I appreciate that folks wish ways to avoid PVP, because I think that's important.. but this *is* too easy.

[Rubricae]

I think they are fine as is and don't really need adjustment.

[richardio]

do people even use potions of attunement? i never see them, i hoard ones i find so i can go planeswalking on my funny wizard

[Rei_Jin]

If people are abusing attunement potions, could we not just, I don’t know, punish the abusers? Instead of changing an otherwise fine item?

Personally I have only used them for actually going to otherwise inaccessible locations, but it’s nice to know that they’re there for if someone decides to ambush me or something.

[Eyeliner]

There's a balance to be had, but people also PUT themselves into very dangerous situations that they can vanish from without consequence.. that's not realistic.

I appreciate that folks wish ways to avoid PVP, because I think that's important.. but this *is* too easy.

Risky behavior catches up to you eventually though. If person A wants to keep taunting and running from person B who could easily beat them in PVP I'm mostly fine with that (drawing the line at obviously trolling which should be dealt with regardless) because it's a pretty dangerous game and they'll likely get beat down in the end if they keep it up. Plus I don't know what's supposed to be "realistic" here- vanishing from sight is "realistic" in a world this magic heavy.

[D4wN]

I think there’s the issue with two different scenarios.

Scenario 1) you’re minding your own business in your own “safe” zone, someone has it out for you and actively hunts you down. You don’t want to be killed by a mob or much stronger opponent and thus want a way to avoid this conflict so you chug a potion so you may yet live to die another day. Phew!

Scenario 2) you are actively going into enemy territory despite knowing that if you are discovered, you will be attacked/killed. You seek out conflict, but don’t want it when it actually happens and chug a potion. Haha! Take that suckers!

The first scenario can be debated whether it is fine to have an easy escape like a potion or not. You are playing on a server where pvp is possible. If you’ve done something that warrants people going after you, you should be prepared for that. And even if you haven’t, enemy threats should always be there. It’s the nature of the game. I’m impartial to this scenario in terms of how potions work. I don’t really care either way.

It’s the second scenario I have an issue with. If you go into enemy territory then you make that conscious decision to put your character at risk. Being in enemy territory should feel dangerous and scary and to cheese an escape with a potion feels cheap. This is one of those things where I believe people avoid the consequences of their actions and decisions. If you don’t want conflict/pvp, don’t go seeking it out.

[Kalthariam]

I think attunement potions are fine.

People should have the option to quickly escape a bad situation, or to be able to drink it to avoid PvP if they want to.

Not everyone has the same goal in playing the game as everyone else.

Sometimes those attunement potions can send you somewhere dangerous, I've ended up in the deepest part of Udos (However you spell it) after using one when I was not prepared to be there. It's not like you simply get away with absolutely zero draw backs.

If some people are abusing it, by using ooc messages to signal them to disappear, that's on an individual players plate, and should be dealt with, we shouldn't nerf / break items just because some people use them in an inappropriate manner.

Never liked punishing everyone for the actions of a few, I've always found that to be a really frustrating system, especially when the many have zero influence over the few.

[AstralUniverse]

Attunement potion is fine. But It should respect -ward_teleport if it doesnt already.

[Zavandar]

I like the OP's suggestions.

[Choofed]

Risky behavior catches up to you eventually though. If person A wants to keep taunting and running from person B who could easily beat them in PVP I'm mostly fine with that (drawing the line at obviously trolling which should be dealt with regardless) because it's a pretty dangerous game and they'll likely get beat down in the end if they keep it up. Plus I don't know what's supposed to be "realistic" here- vanishing from sight is "realistic" in a world this magic heavy.

I mean, this is the problem right. You catch them, they see you, and before you can cast ward teleport (and it should not be a pre-requisite that catching anyone requires specifically ESF-Abjuration) they just throw a potion of attunement down their gullet. At that point, you can do nothing. Even if you cast ward teleport at the same time, the attunement potion will resolve first because there is no check sum at the end of a teleport, just when you initiate it.

Based on my experience of the game in my present character, this happens often. Quarter breakers, unwelcome people within cities who get spotted, and pickpockets who get caught just immediately use a potion that is fast to use, subtle in VFX effect and can't be stopped.

It's not that attunement potions should be removed, heck, I have laid out a proposal but I'm not saying that's definitively how it has to be. But something should be changed, because they're just too good.

I think attunement potions are fine.

People should have the option to quickly escape a bad situation, or to be able to drink it to avoid PvP if they want to.

Not everyone has the same goal in playing the game as everyone else.

Sometimes those attunement potions can send you somewhere dangerous, I've ended up in the deepest part of Udos (However you spell it) after using one when I was not prepared to be there. It's not like you simply get away with absolutely zero draw backs.

If some people are abusing it, by using ooc messages to signal them to disappear, that's on an individual players plate, and should be dealt with, we shouldn't nerf / break items just because some people use them in an inappropriate manner.

Never liked punishing everyone for the actions of a few, I've always found that to be a really frustrating system, especially when the many have zero influence over the few.

I would debate the statement that people being able to just escape a 'bad situation' so easily is the problem. Bad things sometimes happen to good adventurers. And sometimes it happens for good reasons, because the mechanics validate a playstyle, you can just infinitely run away. Lets not pretend that most quarterbreakers and pickpockets don't just have attunement potions bound to their hotbar ready for if they get caught.

Want to bolt through transitions in a deseperate bid to escape? Sure. Got some devious method, know the map, class abilities? Sound great. But just a potion that acts fast and can't be stopped that's relatively cheap? Eh.

I don't really understand what you mean about the OOC messages bit. Could you elaborate there?

[Yvesza]

I think attunement potions are fine.

People should have the option to quickly escape a bad situation, or to be able to drink it to avoid PvP if they want to.

Not everyone has the same goal in playing the game as everyone else.

Sometimes those attunement potions can send you somewhere dangerous, I've ended up in the deepest part of Udos (However you spell it) after using one when I was not prepared to be there. It's not like you simply get away with absolutely zero draw backs.

If some people are abusing it, by using ooc messages to signal them to disappear, that's on an individual players plate, and should be dealt with, we shouldn't nerf / break items just because some people use them in an inappropriate manner.

Never liked punishing everyone for the actions of a few, I've always found that to be a really frustrating system, especially when the many have zero influence over the few.

I'm not sure how changing a potion attunement to be 6 seconds slower with some method to prevent it's use would be punishing anyone unless they're actively sipping them to escape from bad situations often, meanwhile there are people consistently able to take huge risks knowing full well that the only way anyone is ever going to catch them is a -teleport_ward.

Being able to just nope out of any conflict you don't like while also pushing conflict onto other people feels like very poor sportsmanship, it's consistently become a thing that people do now and I don't think turning one item which is admittedly very overly powerful into a rules issue is a good solution either. Why strain the DM's with more work when a small mechanical change or two can mitigate the consistent overuse of it?

[perseid]

Just chiming in to add to the pile of people who think it's fine. I don't see the issue. It has some cheesy hit and run uses I guess but this seems like the opposite side of complaints about scry ganks ultimately. If ganking is easy then escaping should be easy imo, especially when aggression is still reliable enough for factions to routinely push each other out from the settlements they occupy. When groups are no longer able to take meaningful actions to box out their enemies maybe it'll be a meaningful problem but until then it doesn't seem like something that's actually having a worthwhile impact on the broader group pvp scene and nerfing it just exacerbates the effectiveness of the current hyper aggression meta.

[MRFTW]

The counterplay to potions of attunement is potions of attunement.

[perseid]

The counterplay to potions of attunement is potions of attunement.

This precisely. If someone escapes with a potion of attunement it's not like you don't know how to keep chasing them.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

The counterplay to potions of attunement is potions of attunement.

This precisely. If someone escapes with a potion of attunement it's not like you don't know how to keep chasing them.

Except if you end up in the Shadovar.

[perseid]

The counterplay to potions of attunement is potions of attunement.

This precisely. If someone escapes with a potion of attunement it's not like you don't know how to keep chasing them.

Except if you end up in the Shadovar.

This seems more like an example of the problem with plot armor zones.

[Helsing]

I like OP’s suggestion, doing Quarterbreak and easily escape with potion is not alright to me.

[Ebonstar]

we can always just go back to nerfing quarterbreaks instead of attunement potions.

Lately there is still a problem with the ones Breaking and stealing without proper RP to justify it. Same with pickpocketing which needs a popup when you make a rogue.

If you do not have Proper RP to jusitfy stealing, you are breaking the rules. should be seen and that you have to click twice to initiate like deleting your character.

This would also fix the players who dont come to the forums

[Party in the forest at midnight]

This precisely. If someone escapes with a potion of attunement it's not like you don't know how to keep chasing them.

Except if you end up in the Shadovar.

This seems more like an example of the problem with plot armor zones.

Oh no argument there. I'm not a fan of the Shadovar changes at all. In between attunement potions and pickpocketing, the real issue here is the Shadovar guards. I like the idea of the counter to an attunement potion being an attunement potion. Give attunement potions the same cooldown as using a lens so people can't instantly lens after using one. I think this'd fix more issues than rewriting attunement potions entirely.

[Nobs]

Remove portals