Time it takes to reach LVL 30 as a Commoner.. (A class that needs change.)

[Gullys]

I had the spare time so I ran through the XP and how long it would take roughly to get to LVL 30 on Commoner.

For this test I assumed the following.

-50 RPR (extra 50xp per tick)
-Adventure XP 100 per tick (I'm lazy so I just chose a higher end number)
-Mark of Destiny (gives an extra 20XP per tick)

I am adding these bonuses on top of the 20XP commoner bonus that the class gives automatically.

(I'm leaning towards the higher end of these assumptions to just show how incredibly long it would take a perfect player to achieve LVL 30 on commoner. I am not accounting for rat tails or other forms of low XP gain as it would be impossible to reliably meet or exceed the XP gained through each tick)


Now that we have our Total XP (190) that we receive per tick, we can go through the math on how long it takes to reach level 30 (435000).

435000 ÷ 190 = 2289.4736 < This is the amount of ticks needed to reach LVL 30.

2289.4736 × 5 = 11447.368 < This is the amount of minutes needed to reach LVL 30, since the XP ticks every 5 minutes.

11447.368 ÷ 60 = 190.7894 < Hours needed for LVL 30.

190.7894 ÷ 24 = 7.9495 < Days needed for LVL 30.

So about 8 full days of playtime needed to reach LVL 30 on Commoner...

I may be off in my numbers here, but this is an unreasonable amount of time spent leveling one character. The time that it takes to play a commoner is not worth the benefits that one would receive in the long run.

I'm not even sure how to begin proposing what would fix this class other than the fact that a lot of work is needed here.


[EDIT]:

I see that those who play Commoner may not be playing to level up, that I completely understand so I will shift my focus.


The amount of time spent on a Commoner does not accurately reflect the bonuses it receives as it currently is. (This is where I would suggest making it easier to level if the current Commoner was kept)

Loremaster Secret Knowledge, The Artisan. This gives Loremaster the ability to craft all class specific recipes. Commoner being inhibited by this restriction is strange because it's whole class revolves around crafting.

Currently the Commoner's entire bonus is crafting, just crafting. It makes sense to an extent, but you don't have people reaching out to Commoner's for crafting help since there is always an adventurer who has that craft, and Loremasters for class restricted crafts.


Commoner's being unique for having a large amount of crafting points and trade skills doesn't make them better than the crafting adventurer. That is in a nutshell the problem with Commoner, the crafting is not what makes it special anymore (it might of done it at first!). It needs something more to make it unique since players sacrifice a lot of time and effort as Commoners, just to be overshadowed by someone who happens to have the same craft as them.

[JustMonika]

Isn't it a tick every 6 minutes, not five?

[Xerah]

It's so weird to read a post complaining about the time to level a commoner when the goal of the class is not to grind levels (because you can't). If you want to do something different as it relates to levels, then do that, obviously, the class is not for you.

That's like 2h of playing time a day over 3 months. It's pretty reasonable.

Commoner doesn't need anything at all. Not sure what you think a "lot of work" it needs.

[Gullys]

Isn't it a tick every 6 minutes, not five?

Wasn’t sure. Wiki is different in some places than others.

[Gullys]

It's so weird to read a post complaining about the time to level a commoner when the goal of the class is not to grind levels (because you can't). If you want to do something different as it relates to levels, then do that, obviously, the class is not for you.

That's like 2h of playing time a day over 3 months. It's pretty reasonable.

Commoner doesn't need anything at all. Not sure what you think a "lot of work" it needs.

Y’know I actually completely agree with you on this. And the point of my post may of been misguided. Although the Commoner’s benefit with its crafting expertise can easily be outshone by a optimized Loremaster. This class promotes the fireplace RP which is nice, very nice. But that’s all it can do. I guess to reiterate here, it would be nice to give Commoners something unique to them beyond crafting.

[Xerah]

Then that makes more sense. It sounded like just a rant about EXP gain.

[Gullys]

Then that makes more sense. It sounded like just a rant about EXP gain.

Yeah, my bad about that. I got caught up in the numbers. I realize there was a time before “writs” existed.

[Rei_Jin]

The unique thing about Commoner, is being able to master 2-3 tradeskills, where a normal character can master 1, and dip into another somewhat depending on their build and choices.

That's a huge bonus.

Could/should they get something else? I don't know... I don't think so.

This server allows for them, but it doesn't cater to them overly, and that's okay... they're commoners, not "merchants".

[Gullys]

The unique thing about Commoner, is being able to master 2-3 tradeskills, where a normal character can master 1, and dip into another somewhat depending on their build and choices.

That's a huge bonus.

Could/should they get something else? I don't know... I don't think so.

This server allows for them, but it doesn't cater to them overly, and that's okay... they're commoners, not "merchants".

It is possible to get 2 trade skills currently with an optimized build. They are commoners yes, but crafting usually only leads to mercantilism. There's no way around that since that's how players are, unless you are crafting for charity.

To craft you'll need materials, the aspect is to ask adventurers for help (maybe a gonne or golems could get around this). You need to pay adventurers for their troubles....thus money becomes an issue.

If giving Commoners something more doesn't hurt anyone, then it shouldn't be a problem. Now if it does make another class useless of the sort, then I can see that, but Commoners are in their own tiny little world.

[Scylon]

Loremaster Secret Knowledge, The Artisan. This gives Loremaster the ability to craft all class specific recipes. Commoner being inhibited by this restriction is strange because it's whole class revolves around crafting.

Just on that, I think that feat would be more attractive if it was ANY craft is allowed if you take it. EG race and class.

[Ebonstar]

Isn't it a tick every 6 minutes, not five?

Wasn’t sure. Wiki is different in some places than others.

Ticks are 5 minutes and you should use 20 rpr since that is most plausible,40-50 is so rare using it just changes your numbers badly

[Gullys]

Isn't it a tick every 6 minutes, not five?

Wasn’t sure. Wiki is different in some places than others.

Ticks are 5 minutes and you should use 20 rpr since that is most plausible,40-50 is so rare using it just changes your numbers badly

I did consider using 20 RPR when doing this, but I really wanted to showcase how awfully long it would take for someone with 50 RPR. The 100 adventure xp per tick isn't exactly guaranteed either since the bonus you get from adventure xp scales on your level (lower level = lower gain per tick below 100).

Goes to show that 190 hours is the absolute quickest you could achieve lvl 30, playing leisurely is most likely upwards of 250-300 hours.

[Gullys]

Loremaster Secret Knowledge, The Artisan. This gives Loremaster the ability to craft all class specific recipes. Commoner being inhibited by this restriction is strange because it's whole class revolves around crafting.

Just on that, I think that feat would be more attractive if it was ANY craft is allowed if you take it. EG race and class.

It WOULD make sense. Although I honestly think that Commoners should get this as a free feat in later levels just by playing a Commoner.

[Good Character]

The real numbers as 100 adventure XP ticks don't exist.

Assuming a 20 RPR,

Levels 1-10: 62.5 hours
Levels 11-20: 151.04 hours
Levels 21-30: 170.14

Totals to roughly 383.67 hours. Assuming 2 hours per day everyday with an average of 30 days per month, it will take you 6.39 months to hit 30.

This is assuming you have adventure XP 24/7.

This class blows. The "it's a commomer so they shouldn't do anything exceptional" is a significant cop-out, and the reason it's one of the must underplayed classes long-term. The class needs far more bonuses like XP being provided per node harvested, more resources harvested per node, chance to retain a portion of materials used in a craft, etc. As mentioned above, 25 fighter/5 loremaster is just so more appealing AND it's still a good class to fight with.

[Amateur Hour]

I do have a max level commoner, took me roughly 280 hours (got bumped up in RPR at in epics). I didn't find it as painful as I found leveling my first combat character to 26, and I genuinely enjoy it. BUT (and this is a huge but)...

• I created my commoner with a(n amazing) faction landing zone planned. The faction was able to provide me with all the materials I needed to craft unique items to get adequate adventure XP without me having to go get them.
• I had a precise plan for what I was going to craft, when I was going to craft it, where I was going to get all the materials. I never came close to running out of adventure XP.
• I spent at least a dozen hours working on a tracking spreadsheet for crafted items to track what I'd made, what I could still make, how much adventure XP I could anticipate gaining, how long I needed to wait until the next level/cap, etc.
• I was glued to a tavern for a great deal of that time due to adventure XP savings. I don't mind this, but I evidently have a very specific kind of brain damage that doesn't mind waiting for hours like an ambush predator waiting to spring on an unsuspecting passer-by for RP.
• There's a lot of stuff I simply cannot do with that character. At all. Period. DM events? Pfft. Anything involving physical risk? Hah.

Commoner as it stands is very much intended for a very, very specific kind of person and playstyle. If commoner is currently "too rare" per the server vision, it could stand to get some cookies (pleasepleaseplease let us take loremaster, even if you won't let us take take the magic secrets)...but these days, everything except elementalist, spellsword, bard, and 25/5 feels rare.

[Subtext]

I think the XP gain thing is fine. The class is clearly intended at a not-regular pretty much RP only mindset and a gimmick more than anything and there's so many different classes to play that I believe it's just that...fine.

Reminds me in some way a bit of Blue Mage in FFXIV...which has never been intended to play normal content with and pretty much just exists as a cookie for those who enjoy a very specific playstyle.

That said. If there'd be anything changed with commoners, perhaps it could be a bump to six skill points per level.
Aside from that? Perhaps a cookie for actual "commoner activities". Essentially the secret of gathering or crafting as a selectable feat or letting them tend to plants. But honestly not a big thing...I am currently leveling one and I wouldn't do it if I didn't know what I was getting into.

By the way! Commoners do get fishing XP and it can actually be quite the substantial amount

[Morgy]

I’d love to see more commoner politicians and nobles.. thats just something that I’d enjoy to see, but I don’t have any thoughts on encouraging that to happen.

Commoners are more or less just ‘adventure’ classes, without the super powers. The normality of them in a world full of danger and magic is what can appeal about them - you fan believably play that wide-eyed young man or woman, that dreamed of being an adventure but never had it on the cards. There’s a lot of avenues you can go down RP-wise, that just don’t work for the classical classes.

[Richrd]

I don't see a problem or a need for change here. As it was said above, that's like playing two hours a day for three months. That is beyond reasonable for simply existing as a commoner. Now of course this is a bit bloated due to the assumption that this commoner here has 50 RPR. End result might shift a good bit if you assumed somebody to have only 20 or even 10 RPR instead.

I for one wish all classes leveled as "slowly" as current commoner and that commoner would be even slower. It would seriously curb the whole "RP starts at 30" problem by a large margin.

But oh well, can't have that. People need to be able to quickly roll for greater and major awards.

[Rei_Jin]

The challenge with having a commoner politician, is that elected officials who get assassinated are forced to go to an election, and if assassinated again, cannot stand in said election.

That’s harsh enough for a PvP built character, but for a commoner? I doubt that there’s many folk who would find such a thing enjoyable.

[Definately Not A Mimic]

I've leveled two commoners now to 30 and have a third I've taken to level 16. Not once did I feel it a struggle to get them leveled up and each was designed completely different from the last.

The first I took some fighting feats on, not many but enough that she could travel and often was sat in -guard and imp exp and covered others in the party.
The second I went with sailing and was able to easily cover a spot on a ship with such high points in it, took no loss at having sail skill on all her gear and even took stealth to sit in when combat did happen on ship so she wouldn't get beaten.

My point being, with a commoner able to take /all/ skills and a wide range of feats they can be flexible and able to do quite a few things that others can. That said, it would be great if commoner could access the Artisian that LM gets. I however feel if they could take it, or even their own version that lets them do class and race locked items, that they be made to level even slower.

Reason being? Making a class be able to craft pretty well whatever means any faction would be thrilled to have one. Something easy to level up high enough to master one craft, everyone make one to cover the smithing, art, tailor or what have you to make the piece of item you want, and soon you've got factions that are truly entirely self sufficient. You don't need to go very high levels in commoner to master one craft. If you give them boons that make them more valuable to those that can't or don't want to craft then you need to slow down how fast they can get there imo.

[Gullys]

The real numbers as 100 adventure XP ticks don't exist.

Assuming a 20 RPR,

Levels 1-10: 62.5 hours
Levels 11-20: 151.04 hours
Levels 21-30: 170.14

Totals to roughly 383.67 hours. Assuming 2 hours per day everyday with an average of 30 days per month, it will take you 6.39 months to hit 30.

This is assuming you have adventure XP 24/7.

This class blows. The "it's a commomer so they shouldn't do anything exceptional" is a significant cop-out, and the reason it's one of the must underplayed classes long-term. The class needs far more bonuses like XP being provided per node harvested, more resources harvested per node, chance to retain a portion of materials used in a craft, etc. As mentioned above, 25 fighter/5 loremaster is just so more appealing AND it's still a good class to fight with.

^ Thank you for doing this as this is much more accurate for time played

[Gullys]

I think the XP gain thing is fine. The class is clearly intended at a not-regular pretty much RP only mindset and a gimmick more than anything and there's so many different classes to play that I believe it's just that...fine.

Reminds me in some way a bit of Blue Mage in FFXIV...which has never been intended to play normal content with and pretty much just exists as a cookie for those who enjoy a very specific playstyle.

That said. If there'd be anything changed with commoners, perhaps it could be a bump to six skill points per level.
Aside from that? Perhaps a cookie for actual "commoner activities". Essentially the secret of gathering or crafting as a selectable feat or letting them tend to plants. But honestly not a big thing...I am currently leveling one and I wouldn't do it if I didn't know what I was getting into.

By the way! Commoners do get fishing XP and it can actually be quite the substantial amount

Didn’t know fishing counted, that’s pretty nice!

The main reason I pushed so much on how this class levels slowly is because you gain the benefits of the class as you “level up.” It’s a fundamental restriction that even an RP based player faces. Since this class isn’t made to level up, I believe it should get some benefits just from the get go. Commoner activities as you mentioned would be a huge benefit though, and I could see it being a great thing for settlements.

[Gullys]

I've leveled two commoners now to 30 and have a third I've taken to level 16. Not once did I feel it a struggle to get them leveled up and each was designed completely different from the last.

The first I took some fighting feats on, not many but enough that she could travel and often was sat in -guard and imp exp and covered others in the party.
The second I went with sailing and was able to easily cover a spot on a ship with such high points in it, took no loss at having sail skill on all her gear and even took stealth to sit in when combat did happen on ship so she wouldn't get beaten.

My point being, with a commoner able to take /all/ skills and a wide range of feats they can be flexible and able to do quite a few things that others can. That said, it would be great if commoner could access the Artisian that LM gets. I however feel if they could take it, or even their own version that lets them do class and race locked items, that they be made to level even slower.

Reason being? Making a class be able to craft pretty well whatever means any faction would be thrilled to have one. Something easy to level up high enough to master one craft, everyone make one to cover the smithing, art, tailor or what have you to make the piece of item you want, and soon you've got factions that are truly entirely self sufficient. You don't need to go very high levels in commoner to master one craft. If you give them boons that make them more valuable to those that can't or don't want to craft then you need to slow down how fast they can get there imo.

Holy crap, you’re a legend if you have three commoners and I’m suspect at the amount of time you have on your hands haha. Although taking all skills isn’t necessarily a “Commoner” benefit as it is a benefit from Specialist iirc.

I agree that a Commoner’s crafting expertise is valuable, but the class still needs something beyond crafting. Crafting is accessible by everyone on the server and we already know what Loremasters can do. Crafting isn’t the Commoner Special anymore. I do like your diverse play styles with the class though.

[Ebonstar]

Wasn’t sure. Wiki is different in some places than others.

Ticks are 5 minutes and you should use 20 rpr since that is most plausible,40-50 is so rare using it just changes your numbers badly

I did consider using 20 RPR when doing this, but I really wanted to showcase how awfully long it would take for someone with 50 RPR. The 100 adventure xp per tick isn't exactly guaranteed either since the bonus you get from adventure xp scales on your level (lower level = lower gain per tick below 100).

Goes to show that 190 hours is the absolute quickest you could achieve lvl 30, playing leisurely is most likely upwards of 250-300 hours.

for one it jumps to 100 pool tick at level 10, which you can hit in 12 hours even as a commoner doing courier writs and crafting.

The class doesnt need a change, as its for social RP not how fast you can hit max level.

Commoners can and do also sail with adventurer players which speeds up leveling do to getting shared xp while sailing. same with walking and letting other people do the fighting while you gather materials.

This is why your lovely math really doesnt matter as noone relies solely on rp ticks.

[JustMonika]

I thought commoners specifically did not get XP from kills? How does other people fighting help them level up?