Rogue Grenade DC debuff

[Waldo52]

Am I missing something? Is this really a class that needed DEbuffing?

[Subtext]

Yeah. Apparently people are still playing the class.

Sorry, I don't get it either. The class has been struggling for a long time now and now they come with a nerf bat.

[AstralUniverse]

You do realize that grenades were respecting spellcraft and now they dont? It's a BUFF overall.

[Subtext]

For PvP it's pretty much a wash because the average deep rogue (24/6, 38 buffed dex) will only reach a DC 32. That ain't much even disregarding SC.

For PvE it's a flat nerf.

[Richrd]

rouge 2 stronk, pls nerf further

[AstralUniverse]

For PvP it's pretty much a wash because the average deep rogue (24/6, 38 buffed dex) will only reach a DC 32. That ain't much even disregarding SC.

For PvE it's a flat nerf.

pve is a joke. especially for rogue. I'm intentionally disregarding pve here. (but I'm actually not that sure that mobs got no sc. maybe some mobs have sc?)

in pvp you dropped by about 3-4 dc compared to previously, but your enemy dropped about 6 unisave on average. This is literally a buff compared to before, no matter in what shade you paint it.

[Subtext]

In PvP you dropped by exactly 4 DC (given the "standard" deeply invested rogue) compared to an unspecified number depending on who you fight. Either way, an average DC of 32 isn't exactly high to begin with even disregarding SC though the same can be said about the situation before.

Also, intentionally disregarding the gameplay element that players overall spend a significantly higher amount of time with makes for a kind of disingenuous argument.

[AstralUniverse]

an average DC of 32 isn't exactly high to begin

It's not low either. you shouldnt have more than 10-20% chance of success on something you can just do repeatedly all day imo. I recall back when I was playing a wis monk (when it was a thing!) I had about 33 stunning fist dc and it was VERY useful against characters. mundane saves arent that high from my experience anyway.

Also, intentionally disregarding the gameplay element that players overall spend a significantly higher amount of time with makes for a kind of disingenuous argument.

Uh... what?

[Hazard]

Rogue buff when.