Non melee riders?

[Tikin]

Hi there!

When I recently studied the possibilities for building a ranged character, I asked myself “what would it be like to give it opportunity to be a mounted one?”, but I quickly answered myself “oof, no way”. Because my small experience with riding in Arelith taught me those:

_ To go from a settlement to another before going somewhere just to find a horse before leaving is un-fun and immersion-breaking. To lose a horse because of a personal or server crash is unpleasant too
_ Many places (particularly before the very welcomed change to horse accessible areas) are not much suited for “hit and run” strategies, as they are too crowded with mobs and obstacles, which means any bonus coming from horse is at best situational, not a reliable one.
_ Wasn’t possible to loot corpses from a horse (unless it has changed since last I tried?) … and teaming with someone not on a horse isn’t exactly easy in term of coordination, neither is it always feeling good in term of RP to team with a footed char unless you’re playing a somewhat ranked character (be it from knighthood, nobility …).

I then looked at “cavalier” class, thinking “if at least I don’t run in search of a horse, who knows?” … But then the tax seemed just plain to high to make a viable build, as it takes 3 lvls out of the build, two feats, and many skill points to gain something situational. I even looked in the “character builds” section to see if someone had made something with archer/cavalier, but all I found involving cavalier seemed like melee.

I’ve wondered … Am I the only one who believe there isn’t room for much apart from a few melee build on horses (or just 6 ride skill points for flavor)?

I’ve also wondered “what could help to solve this state of things?” … I mean, it looks like the Team isn’t opposed to ranged mounted chars, as long as they don’t use longbow or heavy crossbow from something I’ve read on the wiki … So, perhaps a “cheap” version of the summon horse coming along the “Mounted archery” feat? Perhaps rentable horses at settlements, so that at least you always find a horse when leaving town? Perhaps a –path in the cavalier class that would offer mounted archery feat in exchange of the charge bonuses?

Rather than go for a suggestion, since my experience on the subject isn’t extensive, I’d rather ask: what are your thoughts about this topic? Thanks for sharing if you have tried non-melee mounted characters!

TL;DR: I feel like there’s not much room for anything else than melee cavalier builds if you want horses. I’m interested in others’ experiences feedback and ideas on the matter.

Thanks for reading

[Sandrow]

I've heard of a build of ranger(archer path)/cav/AA.
Using short bow for mounted ranged attack.
But though it has high ab and fare damage. It can't solo well.
Alternatively, adopt a zen archery divine summoner with throwing weapons. The price for cavalier is acceptable.

You won't find such build on wiki because they are less optimal. But optimal is not essential to survive.

[Eyeliner]

I could be wrong with some of this since I don't know the current version of Cavalier at all but... to get the Mounted Archery feat, which you probably really want, requires taking Mounted Combat first-- which (according to the Wiki) is the only feat you need for Cavalier.

So assuming nothing in Wiki is incorrect, Cavalier should have decent synergy for a dip. Maybe a Vigilante or rogue build could work? If I was doing this I might consider a dex based character who took both missile and melee feats for versatility.

That said, a way for other characters to have a horse might be welcome (a normal award to summon a horse at will, maybe?)

EDIT, and a reason nobody is playing this kind of thing is probably because of the penalty for archers moving in combat which might kill the whole deal.

[God_In_Action]

I've played a Cavalier up to epic levels and my experience has been that the movement speed boost is actually quite powerful. Like monks of old, being able to move around the field and kite enemies let's you control the fighting. If you want to kite for a bit to create time to heal, or buff, or recharge an ability, you can and there's nothing that a slower melee NPC can do to stop you. Obviously this doesn't apply to ranged enemies.

A mounted archer could take advantage of the movement speed to always be able to create enough distance to shoot without yourself being attacked.

On the other hand, I can't think of any other benefit to being a ranged archer. You could achieve the same battlefield control with sneaking.

[Heroic Spirit]

back when it was a slow, mounted characters (with a shortbow or light crossbow) and the mounted archery feat ignored the penalty from moving. i'm pretty sure that's the case with the ab malus as well.

[AstralUniverse]

Afaik, mounted archery *still* ignores all penalties and maluses from move-attacking. I hope I'm wrong tho and that it's been addressed since I lasted checked.

[Sincra]

Hot take but imo Arelith open areas are too infrequent and what is available is too small for me to justify horses, further, this is compounded in issue by portal frequency.

However, on the topic of riders, one point I want to query is you mentioned inability to loot.
What race were you and if not a size increased one what size height did you pick on creation?

[Tikin]

Thanks for you answers.

However, on the topic of riders, one point I want to query is you mentioned inability to loot.
What race were you and if not a size increased one what size height did you pick on creation?

I haven't tried that recently ...
It was quite awhile ago (perhaps two years), with human (I think average size but not quite sure of it).
Perhaps this has changed since then? If so, that is good news

Alternatively, adopt a zen archery divine summoner with throwing weapons. The price for cavalier is acceptable.

I was imagining a character with a bow, but thanks for the idea anyway. In that vein, perhaps some strenght builds with thrown weapons could work?

So assuming nothing in Wiki is incorrect, Cavalier should have decent synergy for a dip. Maybe a Vigilante or rogue build could work? If I was doing this I might consider a dex based character who took both missile and melee feats for versatility.

I would advise you against mounted rogue with versatility melee/range, as this is something I can speak from experience. The class is already at difficulty with number of feats, and you can't sneak on a horse (probably makes sense thematically and mechanically XD). Concerning the cavalier dip, it actually doesn't synergize at all with something else than melee, this is what I estimated as it does not give any other advantage than summoning a horse, and comes in a build that already needs to pay 2 feats and (I guess at least) 24 skill points to make playing on the horse efficient. It takes away from the builds things that are important when char on the ground (lvls as ranger and/or AA for example bring bonuses outside of the feats). I'm under the feeling that I rarely meet mounted chars, but that they are never non-melee, and when trying to build, I can understand why. The bonus of "being allowed to kite" must seem something one has to pay for I guess, but it looks like no one is ready to pay the price demanded ...

That said, a way for other characters to have a horse might be welcome (a normal award to summon a horse at will, maybe?)

Sounds like an idea. A minor gift could make the trick too I guess?

From what I read of these answers I understand that none of you have actually tried a Mounted Archer. Have some players an actual experience of it to share ?

[BurntGnome]

Mounted archery sounds great on paper but it really isnt. The feat removes the penalty so you can backpedal and shoot, sure that sounds great.
Until you actually try to make use of this. Ive found in my testing that firing from horseback and moving, which is the only way it makes any practical sense in combat, causes you to have exceptionally inconsistent attacks. Simply put, most of the attacks just wont go off, your character will shout a bunch of lines about attacking, and wont. Slings, darts, axes? I cant even get those to fire even inconsistently, they just dont work correctly with the intended use. Crossbows arent reliable for it either. So when it comes to the shortbows, you might get off half the attacks you are trying to actually fire. Your damage output is way less than it should be, and ofcourse, it requires a very specific sort of area where you can backpedal or ride adjacent to your enemies that you typically will not find in most combat areas.

Cav is in a weird place where all the incentive for it is in the first four levels. Ive been running 10 cav for my entire time on Arelith and honestly, there is zero reason to go above four ranks in cav (you get a lance feat only one class can benefit from, fear immunity you can get elsewhere, and cosmetic changes to your horse - the extra damage/stun on charge is so minor it can be ignored). Especially if you're going for it to shoot arrows. If the kiting mechanic actually worked, I could see dipping for cav, but it doesnt. I think the most practical thing, content wise, if you want a horse for this, would be to add stablemaster npcs to every stable area that will spawn you a horse for a cost.

[AstralUniverse]

It warms my heart that mounted archery isnt as fun and functional as it seems on paper. If it was just a cheap way to avoid the move-attacking tax on archers and without any downsides it would be silly. Agreed that cav is really a 4-lvl class and the rest is irrelevant.

[I am War]

Mounted Archers are sleepers and when Mongolian Tuigan horde shows up to take over Arelith, we’ll all be crying foul