Class Overview: Barbarian

[Irongron]

I'm happy with where they are...mostly.

I'm not really sold on the drunk thing, as I think it reduces them to the comical, and it's just difficult to manage in character. Sacrificing defence (and mental acuity) for offence, which it effectively is), could possibly be achieved by a new Barb only 'Battle Haze' combat mode, working roughly the same way - bonus/negatives intensify the longer it is active, and take longer to clear/wind down. With such a change players could RP the catalyst as whatever they choose, be it alcohol or Warp Spasm (reference to comic Slaine) etc.

Not sure if I can think of anything else, they could benefit from - a scaling intimidate bonus might be fitting? Intimidate and Taunt are both core Barbarian skills, but they have the charisma to make full use of either.

Oh, and possibly a top end Barb only cloth armour recipe that gives something like +3 or 4 dex and offers more protection than the Beserker's Waistcloth. I always feel like my barbarian should have a naked torso but it's hard to build for, especially if one goes the boozy route.

[TLN]

I'm happy with where they are...mostly.

I'm not really sold on the drunk thing, as I think it reduces them to the comical, and it's just difficult to manage in character. Sacrificing defence (and mental acuity) for offence, which it effectively is), could possibly be achieved by a new Barb only 'Battle Haze' combat mode, working roughly the same way - bonus/negatives intensify the longer it is active, and take longer to clear/wind down. With such a change players could RP the catalyst as whatever they choose, be it alcohol or Warp Spasm (reference to comic Slaine) etc.

Not sure if I can think of anything else, they could benefit from - a scaling intimidate bonus might be fitting? Intimidate and Taunt are both core Barbarian skills, but they have the charisma to make full use of either.

Oh, and possibly a top end Barb only cloth armour recipe that gives something like +3 or 4 dex and offers more protection than the Beserker's Waistcloth. I always feel like my barbarian should have a naked torso but it's hard to build for, especially if one goes the boozy route.

I like the idea of at least having options, and I think you and the previous post may be getting to the route of the problem we feel with the class.

As I said, I think the "cookie cutter" type barbarian (Low AC, high Str/Con, tank/damage rage machine) is great and done very well here. And while it is also encouraged to go different paths (i.e. Arelith Barb AC bonus, Animal Empathy and other skills added, tribesman path, etc), the high-end barbarian specific equipment seems to only be suited for the former stated builds or character types. Again, I built and play my own barbarian to the stereotypes, but I would be very interested in seeing the class able to lean into other aspects outside the expected "HULK SMASH". Or maybe equipment, as you said, that can be more versatile in offering the chance at reasonable AC or a bit of bonus feat selection that can cater to diversity among the barbarian population.

Also, yes. The drunk thing is kinda neat in concept, but I at least agree that it's too taxing to maintain the bonus from carefully maintaining sobriety levels, and does create a somewhat silly trope that shouldn't necessarily be a core mechanic of the class that is sadly too micro-intensive for anyone to want to use.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Outside of knowing they are powerful, I don't know a lot about barbarians to have an opinion on what they do or don't need. The roleplay isn't in my wheelhouse. That being said-

I'm not really sold on the drunk thing, as I think it reduces them to the comical, and it's just difficult to manage in character.

Yeah man. If someone wants to roleplay an alcoholic, I say go for it. But tying it to a mechanic pigeonholes the class that benefits from it into said roleplay.

[Nurel]

As I said, I think the "cookie cutter" type barbarian (Low AC, high Str/Con, tank/damage rage machine) is great and done very well here. And while it is also encouraged to go different paths (i.e. Arelith Barb AC bonus, Animal Empathy and other skills added, tribesman path, etc), the high-end barbarian specific equipment seems to only be suited for the former stated builds or character types. Again, I built and play my own barbarian to the stereotypes, but I would be very interested in seeing the class able to lean into other aspects outside the expected "HULK SMASH". Or maybe equipment, as you said, that can be more versatile in offering the chance at reasonable AC or a bit of bonus feat selection that can cater to diversity among the barbarian population.

As someone who plays barbarians all the time, I have to say the Hulk Smash variants are not quite the "cookie cutter" iterations of the class.

If you wish for a newbie friendly, perfect all-rounder PVE character (which would qualify as "cookie cutter" in my book) you could never go wrong with a 21barb / 3rogue / 6 fighter. Never in my life have I seen another melee-mundane character solo Mourn from start to finish as effortlessly and reliably.

Back in the day this used to be even more powerful with less Barb levels and Divine Champion in place of fighter. It would add decent saves to the mix, but now you kinda need 20 Barb, and fighter is a better choice

The class is great, I love it. I would like a bit more build variety, but I understand how we've come to where we are (I won't elaborate, it would be a rather redundant wall of text)

PS, I still hate the 2h AB nerf and the Rage damage nerfs. I never understood why the class had to be nerfed like that. A barb should be doing great damage with a 2hander equipped. But this was like 2 years ago, maybe longer

[Nurel]

Not sure if I can think of anything else, they could benefit from - a scaling intimidate bonus might be fitting? Intimidate and Taunt are both core Barbarian skills, but they have the charisma to make full use of either.

I have tried to make Dirty Fighting work on a barbarian a lot. It simply does not reach high enough DCs to be viable, so I gave up. However, if the overall Intimidate of the Barbarian gets boosted, the DC of Terrifying rage for ESF Intimidate Barbarians in PVP might become too high. But I would like to see Dirty Fighting work for barbarians.

[Kushion]

The Barbarian specific UMD gear could likely use a look. They all have silly maluses like -Lore, -UMD, or 25% Cold Vulnerability.

Or, honestly- Just a new armour set added with Barbarian in mind? A chainmail, maybe. At the moment, it seems the BiS Barb armour is Elven Chainmail, which is pretty awkward.

[TLN]

The Barbarian specific UMD gear could likely use a look. They all have silly maluses like -Lore, -UMD, or 25% Cold Vulnerability.

Or, honestly- Just a new armour set added with Barbarian in mind? A chainmail, maybe. At the moment, it seems the BiS Barb armour is Elven Chainmail, which is pretty awkward.

Yeaaaahhhh, I can't disagree here. The 10% phys immune -should- have some sort of trade off, but the -Lore is truly just annoying at best, trivial to un-equip the helmet to reach a scroll-reading tier, and therefore just a QOL issue if you ask me. The cold Vulnerability makes sense in a way considering the un-edited appearance of the outfit, but at least is countered by a Yeti Fur cloak if you want to eliminate that downside by sacrificing an equipment slot. The -AC malus is truly devastating though, but... fair enough for the only 10% phys immune item I've seen in the game. Very much intended for the low-AC EDR3 barb build, and I'm ok with it tbh. Aside from the weak 1 regen, I would love to see that bumped up to make more of an impact for those who like RPing a troll-like Berserker who can eat swords and regenerate fast enough to compensate for lack of dodging ability.

After some time thinking on it though, I have to again say that the Barb class (at least the stated build above, abysmal AC DR-reliant) seems to be in a fairly comfy place. QOL (besides lore/umd malus) is great - my 30 Barb barely has to use Bandages for healing, rarely uses a cure crit Potion here and there. Regen can be lack-luster without intense focus (i.e. Firbolg + 2ea Lantanese Ring + Berserker Loinclothe + Mighty Rage + Fresh Yarrow Beer + Well Rested bonus), but I truly can't complain so far aside the slightly annoying QOL debuff to Lore.

Also yes, the Drunk Barb is neat, but far too micro-manage intensive for me (and apparently most others) to be bothered with. A change to it's mechanics or duration or perhaps something more pertinent than a Str buff that is already covered much easier by equipment and a Potion.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

The Barbarian specific UMD gear could likely use a look. They all have silly maluses like -Lore, -UMD, or 25% Cold Vulnerability.

Or, honestly- Just a new armour set added with Barbarian in mind? A chainmail, maybe. At the moment, it seems the BiS Barb armour is Elven Chainmail, which is pretty awkward.

i have proposed a 5/2 armor for barbs and rangers, seeing as neither one has access to good armor set for low dexterity builds.

barb cloth armor needs looked at, but can't be buffed too much or it becomes a premium dex build item.

[TLN]

The Barbarian specific UMD gear could likely use a look. They all have silly maluses like -Lore, -UMD, or 25% Cold Vulnerability.

Or, honestly- Just a new armour set added with Barbarian in mind? A chainmail, maybe. At the moment, it seems the BiS Barb armour is Elven Chainmail, which is pretty awkward.

i have proposed a 5/2 armor for barbs and rangers, seeing as neither one has access to good armor set for low dexterity builds.

barb cloth armor needs looked at, but can't be buffed too much or it becomes a premium dex build item.

Agreed on both points. A new armor set for these types of builds would be good. Though the Barb set seems rather focused on low-dex already (i.e. the -AC on Berserker Loinclothe in exchange for 10% phys immune and the minimal 1 regen), but also yes could use some looking at/tweaking. Very, very slight tweaking, that is. I'd say stick with the AC malus, as the build allows for very little AC to begin with, but perhaps some other properties or removing the Cold/Lore/Umd malus to allow for a but more flexibility. That or add another point of regen, or perhaps Discipline or other combat relevant bonuses that ALL types of builds can use, rather than Taunt or Intimidate that isn't necessarily relevant to all characters.

On the other side of the coin, keep in mind that with the new dweomercrafting update (someday), a lot of this equipment will be somewhat customizable to add things relevant to your build, so... said update can somewhat solve the issues stated above.

[Kalthariam]

Thundering Rage Change killed my Kobold RDD/Bard/Barbarian build No tiny angry dragon.

The Barbarian specific UMD gear could likely use a look. They all have silly maluses like -Lore, -UMD, or 25% Cold Vulnerability.

Or, honestly- Just a new armour set added with Barbarian in mind? A chainmail, maybe. At the moment, it seems the BiS Barb armour is Elven Chainmail, which is pretty awkward.

i have proposed a 5/2 armor for barbs and rangers, seeing as neither one has access to good armor set for low dexterity builds.

barb cloth armor needs looked at, but can't be buffed too much or it becomes a premium dex build item.

Why not just buff the berzerkers loincloth and massively up the UMD to match some of the other absurd UMD armors in the game to stop Dex people from just getting it easy? Seems like the best solution to me.

[Android Sufferer]

In isolation I think barb's fall behind because they don't get their free instant melee attack and because of that they feel a little more bland to play. Similarly to rangers, although rangers are in a much, much worse spot.

For a barbarian themed instant attack, maybe something that can be viewed as a double-edge rather than a straight up click every couple of rounds.

E.G. An instant attack 'Crushing/Raging Blow' that can only be used while raging and reduces the duration on your active rage timer but adds an effect based on each rage you have.

Base - +Damage based on barb CL
Thundering - +Adds splash damage. More if you kill something with it.
Mighty - Ignores Base and magical armour class. (E.G On a +5 plate armoured target you'd get +13 ab)
Terrifying - Adds a DC saves vs Fear if you hit.

Maybe it doesn't reduce your rage duration if you kill something with it.

In my head-canon barbarians have rollercoaster combat, where you have to manage being out of rage/the after affects of it, but I'd say most of the time you're on full up-time in rage and there's never that moment you're managing the downside. Something like this would change that.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Thundering Rage Change killed my Kobold RDD/Bard/Barbarian build No tiny angry dragon.

The Barbarian specific UMD gear could likely use a look. They all have silly maluses like -Lore, -UMD, or 25% Cold Vulnerability.

Or, honestly- Just a new armour set added with Barbarian in mind? A chainmail, maybe. At the moment, it seems the BiS Barb armour is Elven Chainmail, which is pretty awkward.

i have proposed a 5/2 armor for barbs and rangers, seeing as neither one has access to good armor set for low dexterity builds.

barb cloth armor needs looked at, but can't be buffed too much or it becomes a premium dex build item.

Why not just buff the berzerkers loincloth and massively up the UMD to match some of the other absurd UMD armors in the game to stop Dex people from just getting it easy? Seems like the best solution to me.

cause if the loincloth is buffed good enough, dipping barb still lets you equip it.

[Peacewhisper]

I can't see berserker's loincloth becoming best in slot for dex builds. Even if my barbarian had 15 dex modifier, they'd end up with a whopping 35 AC, with a tower shield. Yeah the 10% physical damage resistance is nice, but you'll be taking literally every attack that comes at you, in my experience dex characters would benefit much more from a displacer beast raiment and the permanent concealment it grants.

[Kalthariam]

Thundering Rage Change killed my Kobold RDD/Bard/Barbarian build No tiny angry dragon.

i have proposed a 5/2 armor for barbs and rangers, seeing as neither one has access to good armor set for low dexterity builds.

barb cloth armor needs looked at, but can't be buffed too much or it becomes a premium dex build item.

Why not just buff the berzerkers loincloth and massively up the UMD to match some of the other absurd UMD armors in the game to stop Dex people from just getting it easy? Seems like the best solution to me.

cause if the loincloth is buffed good enough, dipping barb still lets you equip it.

If someone wants to dip 3 levels for barbarian for a peice of gear, then that's more power on them? The first three levels of barbarian gives very little they are giving up ALOT of other options for that.

Isnt' that the reason the whole 3 levels system was put in place? To dissuade people just dipping like that?

[ArelithMarketCrash]

Thundering Rage Change killed my Kobold RDD/Bard/Barbarian build No tiny angry dragon.

i have proposed a 5/2 armor for barbs and rangers, seeing as neither one has access to good armor set for low dexterity builds.

barb cloth armor needs looked at, but can't be buffed too much or it becomes a premium dex build item.

Why not just buff the berzerkers loincloth and massively up the UMD to match some of the other absurd UMD armors in the game to stop Dex people from just getting it easy? Seems like the best solution to me.

cause if the loincloth is buffed good enough, dipping barb still lets you equip it.

if this is a concern then Accursed Chains needs to be nerfed right now since its possibly the best armor in the module and you can get it with the small fee of a harbinger dip

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Thundering Rage Change killed my Kobold RDD/Bard/Barbarian build No tiny angry dragon.

Why not just buff the berzerkers loincloth and massively up the UMD to match some of the other absurd UMD armors in the game to stop Dex people from just getting it easy? Seems like the best solution to me.

cause if the loincloth is buffed good enough, dipping barb still lets you equip it.

if this is a concern then Accursed Chains needs to be nerfed right now since its possibly the best armor in the module and you can get it with the small fee of a harbinger dip

it's 13 ac. there are several other dips that give an armor option with 13 ac

but they dont have three attribute bonuses on them. lol.

[ArelithMarketCrash]

cause if the loincloth is buffed good enough, dipping barb still lets you equip it.

if this is a concern then Accursed Chains needs to be nerfed right now since its possibly the best armor in the module and you can get it with the small fee of a harbinger dip

it's 13 ac. there are several other dips that give an armor option with 13 ac

but they dont have three attribute bonuses on them. lol.

Its 14, scale mail base 5/2 plus 7 enhancement.

[Peacewhisper]

plus 7 enhancement.

This should not exist unless it requires being a literal deity to equip. That's crazy.

[Richrd]

I like barbarians being simple.
It is a refreshing change of pace from Arelith's otherwise feature bloated class design. Aside from classes such as barbarian (as in; simplicity) you are pretty much required to spreadsheet your build in advance and ask ye olde powerbuilders on Discord what your build should be, unless you wish to sit and theorycraft for up to several hours and figure it all out for yourself just so you don't lose in the might-makes-right endgame of RP too often.

The one thing I'd agree with here is that the drunkenness pseudo-minigame that barbarians got going on is silly and deserves replacing/removal.

[ArelithMarketCrash]

plus 7 enhancement.

This should not exist unless it requires being a literal deity to equip. That's crazy.

Less than you'd think, it straight up stops you from using Divine Shield despite its +2 CHA bonus. That its +7 is perhaps excessive but if it was +6 it would be even with other good armors since they typically scale to a total of 13 AC, and this is a 5/2 medium armor that doesn't scale with Rogue Light Armor bonuses. The only thing that somewhat scales with this is barbarian's AC bonus in armor that is medium or lighter.

[Nazmina]

Agree with what some others have said here.

Barb is mostly ok. Any changes would need to keep the wm barb builds in mind and either buff levels above 21 or give some qol that doesn't increase power.

Do think barbs could use some level scaling regen to help deal with the whole stacks of healing kits barb go through while leveling. Something like 1 regen per 8 levels would be nice.

Ive found that edr barbs feel suprisingly squishy with how crit centric pvp builds are and how hard high end pve mobs hit. Wouldn't mind trading 3-5dr for 5% passive di (22+ barb levels to keep it away from wm's)

Also very much agree on getting some barb chain mail so we arent forced to wear silly elf armor.