Disguise and Rakshasa

[Peacewhisper]

I really wish true seeing worked like in pen and paper and outed disguise users. The amount of drow I see casually walking the surface, surface elves casually shopping in Andunor, etc. is really immersion breaking, and lets be honest, if you are acting shady enough to make people start popping true sight, you probably deserve to be caught. I also think it's horrible that counterplay to actually min-maxed disguises barely exists if at all. Even that eagle totem avariel is still going to come up a few points short unless they decide to dip warlock or vigilante.

[Kuma]

I really wish true seeing worked like in pen and paper and outed disguise users. The amount of drow I see casually walking the surface, surface elves casually shopping in Andunor, etc. is really immersion breaking, and lets be honest, if you are acting shady enough to make people start popping true sight, you probably deserve to be caught. I also think it's horrible that counterplay to actually min-maxed disguises barely exists if at all. Even that eagle totem avariel is still going to come up a few points short unless they decide to dip warlock or vigilante.

'Immersion breaking' infers you can tell they're drow already. If you can WYSIWYG that they're drow then you can bust em! You can go to town on em! But if you don't know, if you can't break that disguise, how do you know? They're successfully disguised.

[Second Breakfast]

Even in pen and paper, True Seeing doesn't see through mundane disguises. As for it seeing the true forms of polymorphed or shapeshifted creatures (like rakshasa), maybe if everybody and their mother didn't have True Seeing scrolls and could use them that would seem like a reasonable suggestion. However, that is not the world that we live in.

[Peacewhisper]

'Immersion breaking' infers you can tell they're drow already. If you can WYSIWYG that they're drow then you can bust em! You can go to town on em! But if you don't know, if you can't break that disguise, how do you know? They're successfully disguised.

When it gets to the point DM's are having to shout in global chat about it then yeah its hard to overlook. And its not always on my good aligned characters who would kill drow that I've caught them, I've watched them on neutral and evil characters with some amusement as well. And on the flip-side, surface people chat about walking through Andunor like it's visiting Walmart. Its hard to take the Underdark seriously when people act like its a place you go to buy groceries.

Even in pen and paper, True Seeing doesn't see through mundane disguises. As for it seeing the true forms of polymorphed or shapeshifted creatures (like rakshasa), maybe if everybody and their mother didn't have True Seeing scrolls and could use them that would seem like a reasonable suggestion. However, that is not the world that we live in.

Fair point. I still wish some kind of counterplay existed beyond playing one very specific build. I've done went and made a character with said build, for like the fourth time, because there just don't seem to be enough capable spotters around.

[stoneheart-]

I really wish true seeing worked like in pen and paper and outed disguise users. The amount of drow I see casually walking the surface, surface elves casually shopping in Andunor, etc. is really immersion breaking, and lets be honest, if you are acting shady enough to make people start popping true sight, you probably deserve to be caught. I also think it's horrible that counterplay to actually min-maxed disguises barely exists if at all. Even that eagle totem avariel is still going to come up a few points short unless they decide to dip warlock or vigilante.

What if I told you that, IN PEN AND PAPER, there are many notable non-slave surface elf NPCs not only visiting but LIVING and WORKING in Skullport, the place Andunor is based off of to begin with? lol

by the way there are also enclaves of drow that live secretly in places like Waterdeep, Raven's Bluff, and even Evermeet--and probably even more i'm not thinking of if you count Vhaeraunites

[Peacewhisper]

What if I told you that, IN PEN AND PAPER, there are many notable non-slave surface elf NPCs not only visiting but LIVING and WORKING in Skullport, the place Andunor is based off of to begin with? lol

by the way there are also enclaves of drow that live secretly in places like Waterdeep, Raven's Bluff, and even Evermeet--and probably even more i'm not thinking of if you count Vhaeraunites

There are all kinds of crazy things in 3rd edition Forgotten Realms lore that would be okay in a pen and paper session but wouldn't work on Arelith. Psionics for example.

In pen and paper the DM can adjust enemy and NPC stats on the fly, if he saw players were being too reckless with disguises he could easily put a guard NPC with high enough spot somewhere to counter them. In this persistent world setting though, there's literally only one good disguise buster build which nobody plays. It's rather unbalanced and stuff like the definitive drow policy which used to be the norm on Arelith aren't being taken as seriously anymore since anyone can put enough points in bluff and effectively go anywhere with impunity.

This is nothing new, for a couple of years now at least its not been uncommon to see everyone in Myon speaking Undercommon or Xanalress and drinking Ripplebark beer. If you are the playing the one elf character who doesn't hang out in Andunor eating fried spiders to piss off the Lolthites then you are the weird one. I feel like these sort of behaviors wouldn't have become so normalized, if more characters with decent spot existed. If we're going to desegregate the surface and Underdark just say so and give us an Eilistraee conclave somewhere. Stop pretending its unintended when we literally aren't allowed to hood check the 63 black robed guy with the spider necklace and skull mask who keeps bumping into walls because he can't see. Or give us decent options for spotter builds so more people will play them and hopefully enforce the setting.

[stoneheart-]

I recognize the fact that certain things will never be allowed by the DMs on Arelith, but something can't be "immersion breaking" if it's literally allowed in-setting. It's just your opinion which has nothing to do with the setting or immersion, only your personal headcanon and how you wish things would be. Which is fine, but acting like it's the gospel truth of Forgotten Realms when it isn't is a bit dishonest. If you feel like something is against the rules, report it. Otherwise, conduct yourself IC as your character would!

[Peacewhisper]

I recognize the fact that certain things will never be allowed by the DMs on Arelith, but something can't be "immersion breaking" if it's literally allowed in-setting. It's just your opinion which has nothing to do with the setting or immersion, only your personal headcanon and how you wish things would be. Which is fine, but acting like it's the gospel truth of Forgotten Realms when it isn't is a bit dishonest. If you feel like something is against the rules, report it. Otherwise, conduct yourself IC as your character would!

Maybe I am just having an "old man yells at cloud" moment, but the cultural norm on Arelith has definitely shifted from what it once was in regards to surface drow and surfacers going to Andunor. This is what the wiki says on the matter:

Oh, and also #6, and the most important: Don't show your Drow face on the surface and not expect issues. Daylight is anathema, and as far as going into a surfacer town....just don't.

-Jjjerm

I've seen drow in just about every surface settlement. Also see way too many surfacers humble-bragging about the time they spend in Andunor. Hey, I don't want to tell people their fun is wrong, maybe a lot of people just like playing spies. But it definitely cheapens the setting when there is no danger or fear of getting caught, which seems to be the case right now since spot is in such a terrible place mechanically compared to bluff. Its the equivalent of players not fearing death because they know they'll just respawn. People act like they can just do whatever once they got enough points in bluff.

[D4wN]

I recognize the fact that certain things will never be allowed by the DMs on Arelith, but something can't be "immersion breaking" if it's literally allowed in-setting. It's just your opinion which has nothing to do with the setting or immersion, only your personal headcanon and how you wish things would be. Which is fine, but acting like it's the gospel truth of Forgotten Realms when it isn't is a bit dishonest. If you feel like something is against the rules, report it. Otherwise, conduct yourself IC as your character would!

Maybe I am just having an "old man yells at cloud" moment, but the cultural norm on Arelith has definitely shifted from what it once was in regards to surface drow and surfacers going to Andunor. This is what the wiki says on the matter:

Oh, and also #6, and the most important: Don't show your Drow face on the surface and not expect issues. Daylight is anathema, and as far as going into a surfacer town....just don't.

-Jjjerm

I've seen drow in just about every surface settlement. Also see way too many surfacers humble-bragging about the time they spend in Andunor. Hey, I don't want to tell people their fun is wrong, maybe a lot of people just like playing spies. But it definitely cheapens the setting when there is no danger or fear of getting caught, which seems to be the case right now since spot is in such a terrible place mechanically compared to bluff. Its the equivalent of players not fearing death because they know they'll just respawn. People act like they can just do whatever once they got enough points in bluff.

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

[Peacewhisper]

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

I played a character who was a warlock, pirate, and animator! So definitely not against such characters existing or being able to do stuff on the surface. When I brought my skelly boys out for a walk though, I took the backroads where I wouldn't be seen. When I robbed an elf, I did not stick around to get caught. Basically I was smart about it and never got caught or had any issues. What irks me is seeing people be so lackadaisical and careless about these things, and knowing its all because mechanically they have a number on their character sheet that nobody can beat, and if they do, they'll have their God-save and a portal lens anyways. They aren't really even role playing, they are roll playing, and leaving the table the moment they start to lose.

I agree completely btw that the more this stuff gets normalized, the less exciting and thrilling it becomes. Playing a warlock used to be a big risk, now you don't even need to invest in bluff because literally nobody cares.

[Xersaoth]

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

I logged in extra to express that, unfortunately, someone should probably highlight this issue somewhere. Many people who caused significant trouble were banned for disrupting the experience for others. Some of the best villains were penalized with marks of despair for murdering the “wrong” individuals, which led them to a loss of any real commitment. Hood checks were canceled. Hub violence was prohibited. Even the seas became too vast for meaningful engagements. The sense of danger that allegedly once was "nurtured" by the DM Team has completely disappeared. Players with opposing alignments now tolerate each other and go to great lengths to avoid conflict. When conflict does arise, it typically follows one of two predictable patterns: publicly hiring thugs or capturing random victims. Assassins never deliver on their promise. Most players do not care about dying, since there are no real penalties. Even the grind has become dull, limited to just a few locations, with gear ceilings very easily reached. Any potential abuses or creative gameplay opportunities even in remote areas have been systematically removed.

[D4wN]

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

I played a character who was a warlock, pirate, and animator! So definitely not against such characters existing or being able to do stuff on the surface. When I brought my skelly boys out for a walk though, I took the backroads where I wouldn't be seen. When I robbed an elf, I did not stick around to get caught. Basically I was smart about it and never got caught or had any issues. What irks me is seeing people be so lackadaisical and careless about these things, and knowing its all because mechanically they have a number on their character sheet that nobody can beat, and if they do, they'll have their God-save and a portal lens anyways. They aren't really even role playing, they are roll playing, and leaving the table the moment they start to lose.

I agree completely btw that the more this stuff gets normalized, the less exciting and thrilling it becomes. Playing a warlock used to be a big risk, now you don't even need to invest in bluff because literally nobody cares.

100% such characters should exist. But it should be thrilling to play them. It should be a challenge. It should be fun and exciting to play such characters and hide them. Rather than be openly welcomed and half the time coddled. I personally love conflict on Arelith (well done conflict, not toxic 48hr PVP conflict). To play a baddy and have that sort of conflict with team good or visa versa is super fun. And now? It's almost non-existent.

[D4wN]

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

I logged in extra to express that, unfortunately, someone should probably highlight this issue somewhere. Many people who caused significant trouble were banned for disrupting the experience for others. Some of the best villains were penalized with marks of despair for murdering the “wrong” individuals, which led them to a loss of any real commitment. Hood checks were canceled, hub violence was prohibited, and the seas became too vast for meaningful engagements. The sense of danger that once was "nurtured" by the DM Team has completely disappeared. Players with opposing alignments now tolerate each other and go to great lengths to avoid conflict. When conflict does arise, it typically follows one of two predictable patterns: publicly hiring thugs or capturing random victims. Assassins never deliver on their promises, and most players do not care about dying in the slightest since there are no real penalties. Even the grind has become dull, limited to just a few locations, with gear ceilings easily reached. Any potential “exploits” or creative gameplay opportunities in remote areas have been systematically removed.

Well okay. I don't want to sound overly opinionated here, but many villains do believe the only way they can antagonise 'Team Good' is by resorting to PVP. Be that through the use of summons and baiting writ workers into traps or be that through raids and other forms of PVP. The fact is, to be a good villain you do not need to resort to PVP, you just need to be creative. Not saying PVP shouldn't be part of conflict, it absolutely has a place. But it shouldn't be the first go-to for a villain to tell a good story. Villains griefing lowbees, writ workers or in general constantly resorting to PVP and making things toxic will get banned or otherwise penalised yes.

On the other hand, I believe that villains should get waaaay more mentoring and guidance from DMs to help them in this aspect. Because ultimately? This server will feel stale and boring without good villains. People attempting to play a villain shouldn't be insta-banned, but should be educated on how to be a good villain and what makes a good villain. I feel like sometimes, we resort to punishment way too quickly rather than offer that guidance.

[Xersaoth]

Well okay. I don't want to sound overly opinionated here, but many villains do believe the only way they can antagonise 'Team Good' is by resorting to PVP. Be that through the use of summons and baiting writ workers into traps or be that through raids and other forms of PVP. The fact is, to be a good villain you do not need to resort to PVP, you just need to be creative. Not saying PVP shouldn't be part of conflict, it absolutely has a place. But it shouldn't be the first go-to for a villain to tell a good story. Villains griefing lowbees, writ workers or in general constantly resorting to PVP and making things toxic will get banned or otherwise penalised yes.

On the other hand, I believe that villains should get waaaay more mentoring and guidance from DMs to help them in this aspect. Because ultimately? This server will feel stale and boring without good villains. People attempting to play a villain shouldn't be insta-banned, but should be educated on how to be a good villain and what makes a good villain. I feel like sometimes, we resort to punishment way too quickly rather than offer that guidance.

You cannot imagine how often I see people resorting to the excuse “I have just arrived on the mainland" to avoid confrontations, as if it were a free ticket out of it. I am almost tempted to use that excuse myself, given how effective it seems to be. Writworkers have it too easy.

Any conflict is toxic for someone involved, especially if it gets resolved, because no one likes to lose. I mean it is definitely not the norm that should be enforced, but again there is no mentoring here, except for the punitive actions.

[D4wN]

Writ workers should have it easy. Personally I don't think there's any proper collaborative story telling from constantly targeting people 20 levels below your own. It gets a bad rep, because it should. Targeting writ workers is just low imho. Mind you, if a writ worker actively provokes you, then by all means, go for it.

[Xersaoth]

Writ workers should have it easy. Personally I don't think there's any proper collaborative story telling from constantly targeting people 20 levels below your own. It gets a bad rep, because it should. Targeting writ workers is just low imho. Mind you, if a writ worker actively provokes you, then by all means, go for it.

Levels are an OOC-concept. Players who recognize that their characters are weak IC should act accordingly, especially when faced with significant danger. However, they often react very poorly instead, totally disregarding death, resorting to insults, threatening to report the offenders, and acting boldly under the assumption that they are in the right and backed by the DMs simply because they have “just arrived on the mainland.”

I am sorry to say this, but poor RP is what happens in most practical cases when you randomly encounter writworkers - as a villain, you can often identify them by their behavior, even if no other clues are present. There should be more of some IC-measures to punish those who prey on the weak.

[Peacewhisper]

There should be more of some IC-measures to punish those who prey on the weak.

Myself and others in the past have went out of our way to hunt down PC's who preyed on lowbies. Probably still happens. Problem is these days with death amnesia being a thing and disguises being nigh impenetrable for the vast majority of normal builds, any kind of follow up RP/PVP becomes impossible most of the time. Either they don't know who killed them due to the amnesia, or if they do get away without dying so they remember all they know is it was "a hooded figure in a mask and they were warded" so it could be anyone. Back in the day people would get killed, respawn, and say "the ogre did it" and we'd all go hunt the ogre down. Now thanks to death amnesia and disguise you probably won't ever find out who did it.

And I'll admit, I've killed lowbies myself. It happens. Just because someone has a low level character does not mean they can walk around in surface towns or on the main roads with summoned fiends or undead. I've killed lowbies in Andunor's sewers when raiding. Sorry it was scummy but realistically my character wouldn't just let a drow report back to their mommy matron. PVP can happen at any level, just like RP, its not reserved for max level characters. Sometimes you just have to roll with the punches and make the best story out of it that you can. I try to make sure they understand why they are dying, it sucks getting angry tells though afterwards. Losing in PVP sucks but please be a good sport about it, I hate being made to feel like a bad person in real life because my fictional good character killed a fictional bad character for doing very bad fictional things. (or vice versa)

[D4wN]

Oh sure, let me clarify. I'm not against killing lowbies as it naturally happens or if they give lip. If you're a level 10 acting out to a level 30 trying to rob some people and sling insults and refuse to cooperate and/or RP fear, then by all means. Because I agree, that is poor RP. Level is an OOC concept, correct. But strength isn't. If you're level 10 on an island full of level 30' who are 3x as strong as you and you're going to act like a Karen feeling entitled to be immune, then that's bad. No one is immune. If a lowbie does something silly like walk into a settlement like Cordor with undead out, you can expect hostile treatment too.

What I have an issue with is people deliberately preying on low levels by hunting in known writ areas for example and going out of their way to attack and kill writ workers who then have to wait ages before they can continue their writs. Many people don't like levelling and it can be difficult to find a group to do writs with or they might have limited time. If you then finally set out to be owned by an epic character, it can honestly ruin your day and I totally understand that.

I do believe we've gone off topic though

[Marsi]

Some of the attitudes expressed in this thread drive home why I feel Rakshasa and other "disguised monster is the point" races should get more breathing room.

[Second Breakfast]

I think it’s easy to put the onus on villains to be the creative ones, to be careful in their engagements and rely on PvP as a last resort, or a tool that goes unused altogether, because villains are a proactive force and the heroes are typically reactive — they respond to the problems that the villains have caused or will cause.

It’s a two-way street, and we should simply respect any player who is putting in effort behind the screen to create a story, and work with them on that story. I am not suggesting that concepts be twisted or bent to accommodate, but I am suggesting that it might be fun to let things ride and let people cook.

I get the sense that for a lot of players here, though, roleplaying might as well be a zero-sum game. Your number has to beat their number. Your build has to be a hard counter to their build; you shouldn’t have to pick up what they’re putting down or engage with what an antagonist is putting together. You should be able to shut the whole thing down with two successful rolls.

D4wn is right in that people should care more about what people do and who they keep for company; there is a trend of late where others seem content to walk blithely through the world and ignore the evils that are done instead of engaging with those who do them or confronting them. These engagements should be done while being mindful of the other player behind the screen, though. Give them a chance to escape, a chance to repent. Explain why what they are doing is wrong. Try and tell a story with them. Not everyone will engage in kind but those who do will recognize the effort and respond accordingly.

To try and steer things back onto topic…

In the Masque of the Red Death setting, which transforms our Earth into a gothic horror setting, the premier example of a rakshasa is, in fact, Professor Moriary from Sherlock Holmes. That is who you are up against, if you are standing against a rakshasa. They are masterminds, and there is nothing stopping you from using the powers of deduction to determine that someone is up to no good and from there, that they might not be who or what they say they are. Beyond that, it’ll be a more fulfilling victory than if you won two rolls.

[-XXX-]

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

We need characters to interact with each other in order to create interesting conflict. "Good guy" beaurocrats building report case files that they could then proliferate throughout all settlements to ensure "bad guys" get exiled from everywhere doesn't really help with that. There need to be places where various character archetypes can exist and places where polar opposites can meet without instantly jumping at each other's throats.

This is IMO more relevant to the conversation at hand. It's only understandable where rakshasa players are coming from and why they sweat over -disguise so much when all it takes is one "good guy" beaurocrat with a notebook to completely ruin a very important aspect of their character. Besides, what even is the point of a rakshasa or a hag if they need to keep it hidden 24/7 - might as well play a human if that's the case.

Well okay. I don't want to sound overly opinionated here, but many villains do believe the only way they can antagonise 'Team Good' is by resorting to PVP. Be that through the use of summons and baiting writ workers into traps or be that through raids and other forms of PVP. The fact is, to be a good villain you do not need to resort to PVP, you just need to be creative. Not saying PVP shouldn't be part of conflict, it absolutely has a place. But it shouldn't be the first go-to for a villain to tell a good story. Villains griefing lowbees, writ workers or in general constantly resorting to PVP and making things toxic will get banned or otherwise penalised yes.

On the other hand, I believe that villains should get waaaay more mentoring and guidance from DMs to help them in this aspect. Because ultimately? This server will feel stale and boring without good villains. People attempting to play a villain shouldn't be insta-banned, but should be educated on how to be a good villain and what makes a good villain. I feel like sometimes, we resort to punishment way too quickly rather than offer that guidance.

That's such a two way street.
Ascribing the issue to only one side of the alignment spectrum or one group of characters would be wrong.

[Peacewhisper]

People keep circling back to "bad guys need disguise to hide from the good guys" and I just want to remind everyone, nearly everything "team good" knows about rakshasas is due to how easy it is for a good guy to put on a disguise and go sit in the Underdark for literally hours and hours eavesdropping and writing down names. So it really is a double edged sword. Rakshasas are far more likely to get outed by a disguise user overhearing their name than they are to have their disguise actually broken. Disguise being impervious is not good for the server, when everyone is a spy and nobody is a spy-catcher, dossiers and reports are plentiful and team good will always know where team bad is staying, who they are talking to, where they buy their potions, etc.

[Yvesza]

Actively using disguise to create roleplay versus stacking spot to shut it down. I know I'd much prefer people doing things than being told that the barrier for entry is 100+ bluff/perform. It goes both ways too, I'd love someone infiltrating the factions I play within. It can build up into something fun.

I don't think disguising is perfect and in some cases (Exiles) is way too easy. I do think its odd that Raks don't have any kind of additional layers of defence, nevermind that they basically aren't ever allowed to own property because they'll be instantly outed as "Gxynagorb the devourer" instead of Tim the smith.

[TheDoctor]

I recognize the fact that certain things will never be allowed by the DMs on Arelith, but something can't be "immersion breaking" if it's literally allowed in-setting. It's just your opinion which has nothing to do with the setting or immersion, only your personal headcanon and how you wish things would be. Which is fine, but acting like it's the gospel truth of Forgotten Realms when it isn't is a bit dishonest. If you feel like something is against the rules, report it. Otherwise, conduct yourself IC as your character would!

Maybe I am just having an "old man yells at cloud" moment, but the cultural norm on Arelith has definitely shifted from what it once was in regards to surface drow and surfacers going to Andunor. This is what the wiki says on the matter:

Oh, and also #6, and the most important: Don't show your Drow face on the surface and not expect issues. Daylight is anathema, and as far as going into a surfacer town....just don't.

-Jjjerm

I've seen drow in just about every surface settlement. Also see way too many surfacers humble-bragging about the time they spend in Andunor. Hey, I don't want to tell people their fun is wrong, maybe a lot of people just like playing spies. But it definitely cheapens the setting when there is no danger or fear of getting caught, which seems to be the case right now since spot is in such a terrible place mechanically compared to bluff. Its the equivalent of players not fearing death because they know they'll just respawn. People act like they can just do whatever once they got enough points in bluff.

I actually agree a lot with this. I've legit given up this fight. Warlocks normalised, animators protected in the Arcane Tower, Pirates welcome in Guldorand, Cyricists and Sharrans just welcome in Settlements. Open Eilistraeens publicly talking about all the Drow they talk to and help, regular Cordorians and/or Paladins hanging out in the new Sibayad all the time which is filled with outcasts, Drow, Gnolls and other Andunorians..

I remember a time it was scary to walk into the Andunor Hub or Saltspar. The rush of being somewhere you weren't supposed to be. That feeling is gone and anyone trying to scrutinise characters ICly for hanging out with slavers, torturers, raiders etc, is painted as the villain and unreasonable. It sucked the fun out of it playing a good guy for me. This whole forcing tolerance towards classes or races that logically you wouldn't tolerate, is exhausting.

I feel the same. When I first came here I did my reading on the wiki and forums. Looked at rules, classes, the whole shebang. I found some very nice write-ups by Irongorn and one was related to the UD and how the UD should be treated. I took his guidelines to heart. I mean its his game afterall, his vision. So my guy treats UD'ers and the UD as Irongorn suggested. Fast foward two months into my character and lo an behold UD'ers are being treated like teddy bears in certain places. Places that dont really align with the whole UD mentality. What can you do? Well I just went ahead and kept playing my charie the same way and simply left the place all in love with UD'ers.

In a way it was perfect for me. My charie never would have progressed how he did if those UD'ers were not in that place in the certain surface place in droves. So yeah my guy has some very hardcore opinions about UD'ers, so much so that he felt he needed to leave his "settlement". If I wanted to play an UD'er I would have rolled one.