Making a Case for Half-Drow

OOC General Discussion

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs

In passion, patience
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:21 pm

Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by In passion, patience »

Preface:

Drow have left a distinct and irreversible mark on Arelith. Be it the domineering Lolthites, the rebellious Vhaeraunites or the secretive Eilistraeeans, one cannot bring up the Underdak without inevitably mentioning the Drow. Half-Drow are a thematic addition to Andunor that possesses an untapped potential. They can, if supported and played well, redefine inter-Andunorian and inter-Arelithian RP. Their addition almost feels intuitive and yet they are nowhere to be found. In what figures below, I will be making a case for the Half-Drow and their addition to the Arelithian Racial Roster.

Half-Drow Lore:

"A half-drow was a descendant of both human and drow ancestries. A half-drow generally had dusky skin, silver or white hair, and human eye colors. They could see around 60 feet (18 meters) with darkvision, but otherwise had no other known drow traits or abilities.

Half-drow were often conceived in bleak circumstance and usually by slaves. However, half-drow could also be the product of consenting parents. Dambrath was founded by such pairings when one hundred and twelve half-elven priestesses of Loviatar and male drow stock from T'lindhet interbred. The half-drow ruling caste there were known as the Crinti and were a mixture of those priestesses, their descendants, and the conquered Arkaiun people.

The Crinti of Dambrath were by birth an aristocratic ruling caste and so tended to be an arrogant, proud people who saw themselves as superior to the humans they ruled over. Much like their pure cousins in T'lindhet there existed a drive for Dambrathan half-drow to prove themselves to their families and houses - often leading to their premature deaths in politicking or by seeking out adventure as a means of proving themselves.

Half-drow of other origins seek out adventure as a way to escape bigotry and suspicion, to prove themselves, or to find freedom from the societies that look upon them unfavorably.

Half-drow tended to worship the Spider Queen, the other deities of the Dark Seldarine, and other reprehensible powers like fiends or evil deities among the Faerunian pantheon.

Some good aligned half-drow who made their way to Aglarond worshiped Eilistraee. Though that goddess was also worshiped quietly by some in Dambrath as well - those tired of the evil of Lolth and Loviatar."

On Half-Drow Concerns:

Before making this post, I asked around to gain an understanding on why were the Half-Drow not added to the Arelithian Racial Roster yet. The only answer I received was that there were concerns about how Half-Drow were conceived in lore. It is alluded that some Half-Drow are conceived through non-consensual means and that factor alone served as an obstacle to their inclusion into the ARR.

My answer to this is rather simple: Half-Orcs are a playable race in Arelith. Half-Orcs, if anything, are more of a concern in how they're conceived than Half-Drow. And yet, Half-Orc PCs do not go out of their way to bring up how they were raised and the circumstances of their birth. This is because the detail is understood to be not only completely unnecessary, but also completely irrelevant to the RP at hand. Arelith is its own homebrewed twist on DnD lore. What stops the team from establishing that non-consensual Half-Orc and Half-Drow births simply do not exist, or that Half-Orc and Half-Drow PCs are strictly prohibited from having the lore of being the result of a non-consensual relationship, much like how Warlocks are prohibited from RPing non-consensual pacts?

For what concerns Half-Orcs, I feel like it only takes a cursory interaction with the Tuskian Warband on the Surface or the Skullsmasher Tribe in Andunor to realise that the vast majority of Half-Orc PCs actually take great pride in their bloodline and lineage. The Crinti of Dambrath are the same: they are proud of who they are to the point of arrogance. This is why I think that the argument against Half-Drow due to the way some of them are conceived ultimately falls moot.

Half-Drow Mechanics:

It is already established that the Half-Drow race is mechanically supported in Arelith. A few Half-Drow NPCs exist within Andunor and the Andunorian PCs regularly fight Half-Drow enemies in the Crinti dungeon near Saltspar. Here's my proposal for how a Half-Drow would mechanically look like:

Starting Attributes: One could either go down the path of the Half-Elves and give them the base attributes of a Human, ergo, 8 base attributes. One could otherwise emphasise the Half-Drow's Ilythiiri heritage by giving them a +2 bonus to charisma and intelligence, at the cost of a -2 malus to their constitution.

Starting Location: Andunor; Outcast brand is not necessary due to them being Half-Drow.

Starting Languages: Undercommon, Xanalress, Drow Sign Language (Optional).

Starting Feats: Sleeplessness, Hardiness vs. Enchantments, extra SR, partial skill affinity to listen, search, spot, low-light vision. A cavalry-centred bonus or feat could also be thematic given the Crinti's mongol-like culture. Innate exotic weapon proficiency, perhaps.

Appearance: Around the size of a human or slightly shorter, but taller than elves or drow. Drow-leaning skin colours and silvery hair.

Aging: Adulthood at 20 years old, Middle Age at 62, Old at 93, and Venerable at 125, with a 3d20 bonus. (Half-Elven Aging mechanics, if only to satisfy the lore as they've no mechanical impact at all.)

Starting Alignment: Restricted to Neutral and Evil, with the option to apply for Good via the portal.

Half-Drow and Arelith:

Half-Drow commonly worship Lolth or Loviatar, both deities holding significant sway over the Drow population of Andunor. Lolth through the Orthodox and Frethian Temples, and Loviatar through the Temple of La'laskra sported by House Xun'viir for over 12 years! La'laskra in particular holds a particular importance in Andunorian lore and is entirely the fruit of over a decade's work by the likes of Va'sarra, Talyrrae and Ilphaeryl Xun'viir, the latter two being prominent, known and active figures in Andunor to this very day. For what concerns Surfacer relations, the Half-Drow are to be considered a monster race and likely only be tolerated within Evil-leaning settlements such as Sibayad and, to a certain extent, Guldorand. The interactions between Drow and Half-Drow leave plenty of room for interesting RP, and their potential for redemption through Eilistraee would empower the already-active Drow and Elven Eilistraeean factions across Andunor and Myon.

That said and done, kindly leave your opinions on adding the Half-Drow as a playable race below!

User avatar
Snake2512
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Snake2512 »

Before making this post, I asked around to gain an understanding on why were the Half-Drow not added to the Arelithian Racial Roster yet. The only answer I received was that there were concerns about how Half-Drow were conceived in lore. It is alluded that some Half-Drow are conceived through non-consensual means and that factor alone served as an obstacle to their inclusion into the ARR.

Should have probably asked around more, I don't remember this ever being the actual concern. The real concern is what you say here:
"Half-drow of other origins seek out adventure as a way to escape bigotry and suspicion, to prove themselves, or to find freedom from the societies that look upon them unfavorably.

The interactions between Drow and Half-Drow leave plenty of room for interesting RP, and their potential for redemption through Eilistraee would empower the already-active Drow and Elven Eilistraeean factions across Andunor and Myon."

Frankly Arelith has enough of this. Drow already are given a moral pass, total apathy or only a facade of rebuke by most on the surface except those Elves who strut around in black. The tensions generated by people who already react as people should to Drow which is 'stay underground evil creature' is already enough to cause OOC drama between players. The 'not all Drow' crowd is tiresome and should remain fringe yet threatens the mainstream opinion more than it should because of wiki knowledge and technicalities.

If we add Half-Drow to the mix? They will go the route of tieflings. The suspicion and bigotry that should be rightly redirected to them will be eroded away because its too much of a headache to manufacture, especially with the recent changes to Sibayad.

tl;dr - the playerbase cannot be trusted to enforce the Good v Evil divide that exists in the setting, as the fringe rare cases will become apart of the norm.

Denny Lynndain-Walvish, certified rude boy - Rolled
Lysanthir Ellenocen - Shelved
Gaderel Anjou, certified lawful good - Active
Mal-Karash - ? is he even real ?

PowerWord Rage
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri May 26, 2023 5:50 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by PowerWord Rage »

I am more concern about how Half-Drow intereacts with light sensitivity because Drow used to be able to roam the surface during daylight but is mechanically enforced to suffer daylight penalties because warnings and rules failed to deliver.

So, if Half Drow becomes another walking daylight Drow, that's a no from me.

Edit: Response to below post. The mechanical enforcement that make Drow suffer daylight penalties isn't something recent. It's less than 2 years ago, i believed. Kill scripts are already being talked about during then.
I think that our concern is very much valid and there're actual facts to support.

Last edited by PowerWord Rage on Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Current Active PC : Hidden
Also as : Helkaros (Shelved), Raom, Davis White, Stein Ashbeard, Xan'glyph.

In passion, patience
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:21 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by In passion, patience »

Thank you for bringing that up to my attention.

I suppose this concern boils down to trust in the playerbase, and your stance is that they cannot be trusted with the Good vs Evil divide. There's definitely this overarching concern that a healthy number of players would rather RP something unique and special in comparison so something more mainstream. It's why there's a minority of Drow who choose to be the goodly outliers. But we shouldn't forget that this is also why many Cordorian Nobles are secretly evil infernalists/abyssalists/banites/cyricists etc., or why many Gnolls are well-read, well-informed philosophers and scholars that uphold Law and frown upon barbarism, or why a sizeable minority of elves are secretly victorious blades, or, hell, even the unorthodox popularity of the Dark Avengers in Myon. I can also bring up how every vampire is this romantic twilight-esque critter of the night with strict morals and a tear-jerking backstory to make them relatable, and how thralldom is beyond them and the lowest of lows.

This isn't a chiefly drow concern. It's an overall RP quality concern. I'm certain the team has considered this drawback before bringing up races the likes of elves, drow, gnolls, minotaurs, tieflings, half-orcs, orogs, etc. etc. and that this should ultimately not get in the way of Half-Drow being released as a playable race.

I'll conclude by saying this: it isn't our job to judge how other people should RP or how they should handle x and y lore item. Deciding that a race shouldn't be added to the pool because you simply do not trust people to handle it well will sound a lot less convincing an argument when you consider that someone else could say the same thing about your choices for character lore and RP.

Point is - we should just concern ourselves with our own character concepts and strive to have a baseline of faith in the players we're writing with.

Second Breakfast
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:10 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Second Breakfast »

I do not really understand the arguments made against here.

I do not think a Half-Drow would be any more disruptive than half the races we already have, that exist on the Surface or the Underdark and are far more exotic.

Yes, players on Arelith aren’t so great when it comes to understanding nuance, but I think we greatly overstate the effect adding Half-Drow would bring, especially if it’s added as like a Major. It kind of just blows my mind that you can be a pixie or an imp here, but you can’t play a Crinti from Dambrath for some reason even if that’s a much more grounded a concept.

???, Raymonde Revault
Formerly: Moira Orseeva, Maxine Majesta, Reina Drymark

Kalopsia
General Admin
General Admin
Posts: 1627
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:34 am
Location: Concourse Capaneus
Contact:

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Kalopsia »

The topic of Half-Drow has come up multiple times in the past. As far as I can tell, their addition does not align with Irongron's vision for the server, so it is highly unlikely we will ever see them as a playable race on Arelith.

Azensor
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Azensor »

Outside of crinti-based cities, its a race that would typically be killed soon has its born.
The chances of a half-drow making it to adult-hood /outside/ of a crinti city are slim to none

Biggrouse
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:45 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Biggrouse »

I don't think that much would change if half-drow were added as a major award race tomorrow, started in Andunor, and subject to monster rules on the surface.

If they were a lower award tier or excluded from monster rules in Guldorand/Cordor I could see some concern. Tieflings have shown that RPers are hesitant to RP suspicion even towards those with evil blood.

Drow and the surface/Underdark conflcit have been a prominent aspect of Arelith's narrative for as long as I've played, at least. Adding a race that has a unique relationship with that dynamic could lead to some interesting characters and interactions. Some Crinti NPCs live in Andunor as it is, and they've certainly more reason to be there than the playable outsiders we have (which I am by no means objecting to existing in the first place)

I find that some tend to overestimate the impact of adding certain races. Anecdotally, I recall the talking point that playable Gith would result in an explosion thanks to Baldur's Gate 3. As of last count there appear to be three githzerai and zero githyanki.

Kushion
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:30 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Kushion »

no

Nirn
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 23, 2024 12:11 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Nirn »

Nay. Add dargons before Half-drow.

Richrd
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Richrd »

No half-drows, please.

User avatar
Rubricae
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:51 pm
Location: Space Station 3 (Have you seen Carmen Miranda's ghost?)
Contact:

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Rubricae »

half aquatic elf instead ?

All AI art is trash.

Darkstorn42
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:27 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Darkstorn42 »

Half orc, half dwarf. I want dorcs.

"Expecting infinite growth in a world with finite resources is the definition of insanity."
-Someone Somewhere

User avatar
Rei_Jin
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:58 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Rei_Jin »

Spellscales.

They're like humans, but better.

JubJub
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by JubJub »

I always saw it as just too much of a pain sort, Drow will hate you for being part human and the surface (especially elves) will hate you for being drow. Seems like one of those things that will probably sap a lot of fun out of playing it.

satan
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by satan »

The surface/under dark tension has been eroded enough I think. Adding half drow would be a step in the wrong direction.

Xyxz - Goblin spider druid. RIP
Flail - Orog weapon master RIP
Krom - Half orc Barbarian RIP
Glyngolyn - Firbolg Shadowdancer RIP
Jigjog - the least industrious ACTIVE
Muck - munching on carion. ACTIVE
"Cabal" - <classified> ACTIVE

Twohand
General Admin
General Admin
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:58 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Twohand »

Kalopsia wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:14 am

The topic of Half-Drow has come up multiple times in the past. As far as I can tell, their addition does not align with Irongron's vision for the server, so it is highly unlikely we will ever see them as a playable race on Arelith.

I, for one, will keep bugging Irongron until he changes his mind. :)

User avatar
Royal Blood
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:12 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Royal Blood »

I could see them maybe being an award race but I'm not sure where they would fit into the tapestry. Like I think the vibe of them is interesting but I think that they would struggle to find a place in Drow society. It always feels like a delicate balancing what many view as authentic drow expressions paired with an over abundance of acception that has players feeling off put.

Buuut as an award race sort of limiting their abundance could maybe make them an interesting quirk that expands narrative opportunities.

I am not on a team.
I do not win, I do not lose.
I tell a story, and when I'm lucky,
Play a part in the story you tell too.
Ruzuke
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:55 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Ruzuke »

Azensor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:24 am

Outside of crinti-based cities, its a race that would typically be killed soon has its born.
The chances of a half-drow making it to adult-hood /outside/ of a crinti city are slim to none

The chances that humans, yuan-ti, ogres, minotaur's, deep gnomes and dwarves, kobolds, and goblins all live in one city is near 0. Yet there it is. All living their best lives, united ignoring their racial hatred of one another while walking hand in hand with the Drow. When playing a typical Drow I can only count on my fingers how many characters told me traditional race and faith did not matter.

Did I think this thread was half dragon and was sad it was half drow yes? Do I think How drow can fit the same position Gloaming (who by the book hate and don't live with drow) do? Yes. Likely better than the deep humans, or normal humans. Far better than the deep gnomes.

98lbs of sad carryweight
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:08 pm

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by 98lbs of sad carryweight »

Just make a half moon elf with white hair, it's functionally the same.

User avatar
ReverentBlade
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by ReverentBlade »

I see no reason why half-Drow are particularly improbable on Arelith.

Azensor
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Azensor »

Ruzuke wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 1:13 pm
Azensor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:24 am

Outside of crinti-based cities, its a race that would typically be killed soon has its born.
The chances of a half-drow making it to adult-hood /outside/ of a crinti city are slim to none

The chances that humans, yuan-ti, ogres, minotaur's, deep gnomes and dwarves, kobolds, and goblins all live in one city is near 0. Yet there it is. All living their best lives, united ignoring their racial hatred of one another while walking hand in hand with the Drow. When playing a typical Drow I can only count on my fingers how many characters told me traditional race and faith did not matter.

Did I think this thread was half dragon and was sad it was half drow yes? Do I think How drow can fit the same position Gloaming (who by the book hate and don't live with drow) do? Yes. Likely better than the deep humans, or normal humans. Far better than the deep gnomes.

again this is a race that is typically killed off at birth, in typical drow society, its not the same has the other races. your wanting to playing the 1% of 1%. Though that said i could see them allowing it if they limited it to a active slot of around what, 5 half-drow at max.

User avatar
ReverentBlade
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by ReverentBlade »

Half-drow can be born to a surfacer mother. You are forgetting half the equation entirely.

Azensor
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by Azensor »

Ok and? there is no scenario where a half-drow baby is taken to the surface and raised there, at BEST it might get left at a church or tossed somewhere if the mother somehow made it back to the surface.
To be perfectly honest i dont trust people to rp the nuance well, and i certainly dont trust people to not just go 'yep my daddy raped my mommy so here i am'

Could it be rp'd well..maybe but imo the server would have to heavily limit the amount of active half-drow at any given point and it would have to be locked behind high rpr not a reward, high rpr.

User avatar
ReverentBlade
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am

Re: Making a Case for Half-Drow

Post by ReverentBlade »

You're not quite living in the same RP environment as the rest of us, I think. There is plenty of "mingling" that happens on the surface between human females and not-quite-totally-evil Drow. Usually secretive, of course. They also aren't the type of characters to throw out their babies because they are dusky.

You can argue about the quality or merits of that RP as much as you like, but the argument that half-Drow are implausible is just not true.

Post Reply