sailing feedback for latest changes

Feedback relating to the Classes, Spells and General Mechanics of Arelith.


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Dreams
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sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by Dreams »

Sailing system already encouraged you to minmax sail score or be left behind for basic content. With the recent change you gain bonuses in ship PvP for doing so. We kind of needed the whole thing to be brought back a level rather than adding another reason to go as deep as possible.

My feedback is that I think there needs to be more of a tilt away from skill bonus and more toward skill of the players. Having a cap on what sail score is needed overall enables more players to get involved, e.g. a cap at 50 means 33 ranks + gear easily covers everyone, a cap at 70 means you’ll be a bit tighter or enjoy benefits from the sail gift or class bonuses, a cap at 80 probably gets the people who put ranks33+esf10+6gift+5sf+gearing+class bonuses.

If you go too much higher than that it becomes kind of meaningless and the characters now ONLY do sailing instead of being a bit more well rounded.

RP only starts at 30 if you're a coward.

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A MAN DRUNK ON POWER
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by A MAN DRUNK ON POWER »

Seconded. Sailing is an unenjoyable system full of sitting around for 2-6 IRL hours and requires you to invest your build heavily into it to be able to do it at all, and then poops out millions of gold onto people sometimes (there's another (now locked) thread about the weird relationship between sailing/runic dungeons though so that's unrelated to this post).

It's a truly bizarre system. I've tried playing sailing characters a few times and it just makes me wanna uninstall NwN. New change just makes it even less approachable.

Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire »

I think you always got a bonus for a higher sail score. Now it just caps so if you have 10 sail or 65 sail vs a 95 sail it's still just a five point difference. The post is worded a bit weird, and I admit it has me second guessing, but the first time I heard of this idea (which was close to a year ago now, shows you how long ideas take to translate to action) it was presented as a way to not make lowbie sailors insta dead in pvp.

Also, if you don't like sailing, there's lots of other ways to play the game. There's no need to dump on peoples work, especially when there is a large swath of us who do enjoy it, just because you personally aren't interested.

But Will It Blend
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by But Will It Blend »

This is a great change to the system. If you don't understand that, it's okay. It could be helpful if this was more clear so people realized what it was VS what it is.

If you don't like sailing... don't? I enjoy it immensely. It's a great mix of PVE, RP, exploration, etc.

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Tesla420
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by Tesla420 »

There is some pretty massive disrespect for the sail system, which makes me sad. Sailing is a really interesting feature, and having to discover all the secrets. Unlock the clues, and race the competing factions while doing it I felt was a very rich experience on Arelith. (All my old Merchant Navy people rock on!)

As for the patch notes themselves, from what I understand. This caps the bonuses sail provides in pvp. As opposed to currently where a 5 difference provides 1 ab/ac up to 20 as I recall.

"Changes how ship sail ranks work in battle. Now a ship gain +1 AB and +1 AC for every 5 points of sail score you have above the enemy ship you are targeting, or that is targeting you. This will cap at +5 bonus.

This means a 95 sail score ship will have +5ab and +5ac against both a 10 sail score ship and a 65 sail score ship.

A 10 sail score ship and a 65 sail score ship, will have +0 ab and +0 ac against a 95 sail score ship."

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LivelyParticle
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by LivelyParticle »

Yeah. Seeing an earlier comment about 'rather have my teeth pulled than sail' from someone, along with seeing some other comments about terrible sailing experiences make me wonder who you're all sailing with (or sailed with). I have a great time with the group I regularly go out with, and I would hope the feeling's mutual from their side as well. Maybe just mix it up a bit, find new crews to sail with if you're not jiving?

This said, it's a huge time sink if you want to be 'serious', so I can very much agree that it's not for everyone. Though I figure this time is just as easily spent sitting in a tavern/meeting room/square with not nearly as much action. (maybe) :)

I've not seen enough yet to comment on the sailing changes, but I do know the speed bonus doesn't seem to be working. I already reported it to AR who will be taking a look tomorrow.

Xerah
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by Xerah »

Am I misunderstanding things, doesn’t this limit the gap between the super sail scores and the limited sail scores?

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PowerWord Rage
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by PowerWord Rage »

This is a good change because this means that a Flagship with 30 sail score will not longer be beaten by a sloop wtih 100 sail score.
This is also a good change because Players will no longer need to over-invest in sailing unless they are facing Flagship vs Flagship.
Although i've observed that this sailing cap limit does not apply to PVE experience since the NPC ship AB are a little weird...but generally, i felt little changes before and after for PVE experience despite the changes made to AB / AC.

Sailing system already encouraged you to minmax sail score or be left behind for basic content. With the recent change you gain bonuses in ship PvP for doing so. We kind of needed the whole thing to be brought back a level rather than adding another reason to go as deep as possible.

I'm not sure if you understood that the recent change makes Ship PVP much easier for bigger ship to survive against smaller ship as it SHOULD be intended though.
This change if any, makes Ship PVP less encouraging for players because the risk of getting sunk due to having 100 sail scores rather unpredictable instead.
The recent change does not make you gain more bonuses in Ship PVP but you lost all the extra bonuses instead.

In the past, if your ship is 100 sails and the other opponent is 30 sail
It's not +5AB and +5AC ( current change )
It's actually +14 AB and +14AC
That's how terrible it was and why Flagship can lose to sloops.

Edit: And regarding the sentiment about dislike or even hate sailing, it's okay to just not do the content. It's as much that i found myself having little talent over poetry writing or attending RP events that need a certain level of stronger english language level.
But all's good and chill, once awhile, i still do attend them if only to try something different.
That said, the choice has always been in your hands.
Much like there're Sailors that only care about Mechanics, there're also Sailors that care about RP.
Although these two are not mutually exclusive and it's simply just the chemistry of the Players on board the ship.
I enjoy even 2 person RP very much as long as you disregard any and all OOC elements.

Last edited by PowerWord Rage on Mon Jun 02, 2025 3:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Dreams
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by Dreams »

You’re right! I didn’t understand properly. Looks like a step in the right direction

RP only starts at 30 if you're a coward.

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Cnaym
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by Cnaym »

There's two big things that this change enables.
First the already mentioned decrease of the pvp distances. Went to try it out last night and seeing the Tempest at 100 sail get hit by small pirate ships was a fun little thing to witness. Granted they still did absolutely no damage due to their low quality ammunition.

The other thing people seem to overlook is that now the difference between 3 friends without any sail and 3 people with 100 sail in regards to PVE is next to nothing. Sure you probably don't want to go hunt undead galleons without sailors and repairs, but for all those trying to get into sailing without heavy investments or repair material collections you now absolutely can just grab a rental and sail around your favorite port hunting pirates and slavers on FAIR terms. Just make sure to dock for repairs and pay the pennies it costs with the smaller ships.

Seriously, without any skill point investment you can hit 40-50ish by making some gear yourself (25ish bags investment) and grabbing your favorite bard. I myself struggle a lot witth the 50 people on deck, dice winner takes the entire days earnings that bigger factions sometimes employ.

Grab a friend or two, shoot pirates and slavers (both have chances to spawn map pieces) and sell the spoils. We even sell the map pieces for 100ish each to the navies or other sailors and made tons of money without dice rolling at all.

Just for some numbers, the people who went along can confirm this, we usually had 3 to 4 people and 60-70ish total sail score (since we really just had 2 sailors with investment usually) and made 100+ bags per hour per person using nothing but normal ammunition we picked up and wood.
Sometimes you get lucky and find a ton of map pieces, sometimes you don't but the general earning always averaged around that when we just sold the things instead of fiddling with dice.

Realistically I'd say for people new to the sailing system you'll likely make a little below that, get sunk sometimes shooting something with too many masts or not going back for repairs in time, but for people who got the "we stand around for 6 hours and get nothing" mentality this form of sailing can be a lot more fun since everyone is involved in every decision and task instead of going semi afk and watching an army storm tiny ships.

Just don't put the coins first, focus on roleplaying, that's what makes or breaks the sailing and is the difference between public horde crews and the tight knit groups that stick together for years.
If you just wanna make a million a morning you wanna go solo sailing against undead galleons and while possible, that's usually not an experience meant for sane people :^)

A MAN DRUNK ON POWER
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by A MAN DRUNK ON POWER »

PowerWord Rage wrote: Mon Jun 02, 2025 1:33 am

In the past, if your ship is 100 sails and the other opponent is 30 sail
It's not +5AB and +5AC ( current change )
It's actually +14 AB and +14AC
That's how terrible it was and why Flagship can lose to sloops.

That does sound like a great step in the right direction, then.

But Will It Blend
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Re: sailing feedback for latest changes

Post by But Will It Blend »

I go around with a 60-70. Most times without even anyone who can repair. We just stick around the crows nest and Guldorand.

We can pull in absurd amounts of money and wealth just from doing that without much of an issue. Though I will say that if anything this change has actually made the ship combat more dangerous for doing it, since there's no longer a differential of +14 to AB and they can only hit on 20's. It has its ups and downs.

But yes if the issue is that people simply don't have 100 that's... fine? You just... don't need it. PVP is different. Going to go fight galleons is different. But you also don't need to do that.

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