Arcane Tower

[Ruzuke]

I noticed that Warlocks was removed from being members, could Dirge singers be added as they use bardic music (only curse songs but it counts)?

Finally Harbingers seem to be an arcane magic class as they use arcane wands and not divine as well as their spells seem to be pulled from the arcane spell list. Could Harbingers be added to the list (and are they arcane or divine spellcasters).

[D4wN]

Hemomancers also are still not recognised as mages. I'm unsure if that is intentional?

[TheDoctor]

I noticed that Warlocks was removed from being members, could Dirge singers be added as they use bardic music (only curse songs but it counts)?

Finally Harbingers seem to be an arcane magic class as they use arcane wands and not divine as well as their spells seem to be pulled from the arcane spell list. Could Harbingers be added to the list (and are they arcane or divine spellcasters).

I think, this is most likely an IC thing. Thats how I see it at any rate. XYZ was done IC now no more warlocks at the arcane tower. Makes me think that only certain classes that can cast spells are allowed... As it should be.

Its a matter of not, can they cast magic.. But... Where does that magic come from.

Hemomancers also are still not recognised as mages. I'm unsure if that is intentional?

I would think so considering where they get their power from. You are NOT using the weave you are using.. Well let me quote source...

Hemomancers looks inwards, either by research, instinct, trial and error, experimentations, curses, or bindings; they have found a way to transform life energy to focus. They usually do not have as developed a reservoir, nor are as proficient in gathering external energy as other Invokers, but have discovered their own ways to leech energy out of others, or even themselves, at the cost of their own lives.

[D4wN]

I would think so considering where they get their power from. You are NOT using the weave you are using.. Well let me quote source...

Hemomancers looks inwards, either by research, instinct, trial and error, experimentations, curses, or bindings; they have found a way to transform life energy to focus. They usually do not have as developed a reservoir, nor are as proficient in gathering external energy as other Invokers, but have discovered their own ways to leech energy out of others, or even themselves, at the cost of their own lives.

Neither do Elementalists draw from the weave though. And they're recognised to my knowledge

[Ruzuke]

I think, this is most likely an IC thing. Thats how I see it at any rate. XYZ was done IC now no more warlocks at the arcane tower. Makes me think that only certain classes that can cast spells are allowed... As it should be.

Its a matter of not, can they cast magic.. But... Where does that magic come from.

I was not advocating for Warlocks to join the Tower. But for Harbingers which the wiki says are arcanists. When I spoke to DMs they said Invokers were allowed. I think dirgesingers should be allowed as well as their magic is bardic magic (through song).

For Harbingers I would also allow based on their deity's alignment join the arcane tower. Divine Patronage Harbingers of the Knight cannot join, yet their clerics can (as she is Lawful Natural) however that is a separate thread.

[TheDoctor]

I think, this is most likely an IC thing. Thats how I see it at any rate. XYZ was done IC now no more warlocks at the arcane tower. Makes me think that only certain classes that can cast spells are allowed... As it should be.

Its a matter of not, can they cast magic.. But... Where does that magic come from.

I was not advocating for Warlocks to join the Tower. But for Harbingers which the wiki says are arcanists. When I spoke to DMs they said Invokers were allowed. I think dirgesingers should be allowed as well as their magic is bardic magic (through song).

For Harbingers I would also allow based on their deity's alignment join the arcane tower. Divine Patronage Harbingers of the Knight cannot join, yet their clerics can (as she is Lawful Natural) however that is a separate thread.

I dont know if we have the same wiki or not but if you have a source I dont know about I would love to see it. Probally gonna need a DM's input though for a solid explaination......

"Like rumors of war or plague-ridden winds, harbingers move through battlefields; leaving only ruin and sorrow in their wake.

Empowered from within by a deep connection to malice, they channel their negative emotions into a supernatural fighting style that is strange and terrifying to behold. How they choose to do so differs, some opt to accept, yet bind the darker urges within themselves; making their wrath serve like a hound would its master, while others opt instead to embrace their innate ferocity, becoming killers with neither restraint, nor pity."

(source) https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Harbinger

[perseid]

As a minor quibble, all magic touches the weave. The only exception laid out in FR that I can recall is psionics. "All spells, magic items, spell-like abilities, and even supernatural abilities such as a ghost's ability to walk through walls, depends on the weave in different ways" (FRCS, pg. 54).

[Ruzuke]

"Like rumors of war or plague-ridden winds, harbingers move through battlefields; leaving only ruin and sorrow in their wake.

Empowered from within by a deep connection to malice, they channel their negative emotions into a supernatural fighting style that is strange and terrifying to behold. How they choose to do so differs, some opt to accept, yet bind the darker urges within themselves; making their wrath serve like a hound would its master, while others opt instead to embrace their innate ferocity, becoming killers with neither restraint, nor pity."

(source) https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Harbinger

Under

Class Mechanics

[quoteSpellcasting
Arcane (spell failure from armor is a factor)
Special: Arcane Spell Failure for Armor and Shields is reduced by 20% if the majority of character levels are in Harbinger.
Charisma-based
A base charisma score of 10 + the spell's level is required to cast a spell
Bonus spells are based on modified charisma
Charisma modifier affects spell DCs[/quote]

https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Harbinger

No special DM wiki needed.

[Beefcake]

I mean, in that case Warlocks should also be allowed in the tower as per the wiki:

Code: Select all

Spellcasting

    Arcane (spell failure from armor is a factor), charisma-based (a base score of 10 + the spell's level is required to cast a spell, bonus spells are based on modified charisma, and the charisma modifier accects spell DCs), and spontaneous cast (no spell preparation required).

I am pretty certain the change is simply due to management decision and not based on arcane, etc. Personally, in this case I would limit it even more and kick out anything other than wizards and sorcerers to help give them their cookie, but the current Arelith environment is unfortunately still to limit restricting anyone from accessing places.

[For Sound and Silence]

I mean, in that case Warlocks should also be allowed in the tower as per the wiki:

They probably should be, to be honest. There is a DM NPC there with several pacts who helps with requested storylines for making and breaking pacts, especially warlock-related ones. There are no laws against warlock magic in the Tower. There are also no laws against hemomancy. The only area-placeable Tower rule pertinent to class allowance is against Shadow Mages, specifically.

[TheDoctor]

I mean, in that case Warlocks should also be allowed in the tower as per the wiki:

They probably should be, to be honest. There is a DM NPC there with several pacts who helps with requested storylines for making and breaking pacts, especially warlock-related ones. There are no laws against warlock magic in the Tower. There are also no laws against hemomancy. The only area-placeable Tower rule pertinent to class allowance is against Shadow Mages, specifically.

There is a huge write up on what a warlock is and how they should be played/treated. Cry foul all you want but this is how it is as far as warlocks go.

Here is a small tidbit, and then the source link....

Playing with and playing as a warlock has the subtle expectation everybody involved understands that warlocks should be persecuted; they should be ostracized, thrown rotten tomatoes and pointed subtle fingers to. A warlock is only marginally better than an Outcast, barely above the status of a criminal and never better than second class citizens... if the nature of their powers is revealed, of course.

https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Warlock#Per ... _Hostility

[AstralUniverse]

"Oh I have arcane spellbook so I should be allowed in the Arane Tower" is not a valid IC argument to be alllowed in an IC place.

Warlocks are pariah of society and eldritch magic is something more people (even experienced mages) are very scared of, dont understand, or simply dont trust at all. Doesnt surprise me that a circle of mages would simply kick them all out or not let them in, in first place.

Harbinger, has arcane book but that's meta-gaming. ICly, no one freaking knows what a Harbinger even is. I dont think you go "look mom I cast spells" and simply get a ticket to the prestige and legendary arcane tower of Arelith.

My two cents.

[Kuma]

Warlocks are pariah of society and eldritch magic is something more people (even experienced mages) are very scared of, dont understand, or simply dont trust at all. Doesnt surprise me that a circle of mages would simply kick them all out or not let them in, in first place.

One of the Tower's most prominent NPCs is a Warlock, and it is expressly not forbidden to be a Warlock at the Tower. They're occultists, they should be able to live there.

[AstralUniverse]

Warlocks are pariah of society and eldritch magic is something more people (even experienced mages) are very scared of, dont understand, or simply dont trust at all. Doesnt surprise me that a circle of mages would simply kick them all out or not let them in, in first place.

One of the Tower's most prominent NPCs is a Warlock, and it is expressly not forbidden to be a Warlock at the Tower. They're occultists, they should be able to live there.

Fair enough. That's as solid evidence that warlock is accepted or at least tolerated at the tower, as one could ask for actually. Then i do wonder why they were removed from being a member. Perhaps the NPC should be replaced as well otherwise.

[chris a gogo]

No Warlocks!

They are allowed 1

[Kuma]

Perhaps the NPC should be replaced as well otherwise.

The NPC is plot-relevant for recent DM quests at the Tower, his removal would be weirder than just letting Warlocks own Tower rooms.

[AstralUniverse]

Perhaps the NPC should be replaced as well otherwise.

The NPC is plot-relevant for recent DM quests at the Tower, his removal would be weirder than just letting Warlocks own Tower rooms.

Oh I agree, I was more so pointing out that it would basically be inconsistent if you have a warlock npc living at the tower but warlocks in general cant own rooms there.