Appraise skill changes

[Durvayas]

Have you tried keeping up with a healing kit demand? How many hundreds/thousands have you crafted and put into a shop in a week? Because the number is right up there. And gathering that many nuts, berries, fruit, meat, and salt is tedious. It is only fun to the grind oriented players (not RPers).

Meat and salt is easy to get in large quantities(Several salt sources in and around Andunor), The nuts and berries and fruit I believe can largely be bought in bulk by the duergar NPC vendor in the devil's table district of Andunor. I know a few cooks who get their supplies this way.

On a semi-related note; shaggy beasts, despite being the size of a small house, drop medium meat. It should probably be bumped to large.

[Freyason]

32 gold for heal kit is a lot? My UD characters usually buy them for around 40, except goblin who has a cousin selling it in the Hub and can get it for 34-35 most of the time

[Liareth]

Part two will be coming soon (when I find time to code it!). I won't spoil -too much-, but we're going to make general adventuring more interesting and profitable. Think of Diablo 3-style loot; procedurally generated items dropping in chest and from NPCs, etc. Like artifacts, but less powerful. Once that part of the update is implemented then you'll find that adventuring will become much more profitable, especially scaling with appraise as you'll be able to sell these items you find for a hefty chunk of gold.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Like artifacts, but less powerful.

The monk-only artefact tower shield laughs at your statement.

[Peppermint]

Think of Diablo 3-style loot

Please make it like Diablo 2, and not like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is garbo.

[gilescorey]

Think of Diablo 3-style loot

Please make it like Diablo 2, and not like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is garbo.

All the sequels were terrible. Nice meme taste, kids.

[Liareth]

Think of Diablo 3-style loot

Please make it like Diablo 2, and not like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is garbo.

no

[Peppermint]

This is why they call you Scholar Midnight instead of Scholar Sunlight. All your memes belong in the dark where no one will see them.

[Rodent]

Please stop fighting. ;-;

[P Three]

Okay but when are we getting a lens recipe that isn't garbagio plzthx

[Kuma]

This is why they call you Scholar Midnight instead of Scholar Sunlight. All your memes belong in the dark where no one will see them.

[Nitro]

Okay but when are we getting a lens recipe that isn't garbagio plzthx

I'll second this so hard, if lenses were craftable without taking ultra-expensive resources that would be absolutely grand.

[Trunx]

The new prices are crazy. What is it, 32 gold each for a +1 healing kit? Raise scrolls are 1,113 gold? Lenses are now 3,500 gold. How is that going to play out for low level characters? Is hunting even going to be profitable anymore? As a mage and often times the group healer, I think not.

Those prices aren't crazy. Those are prices non-appraise characters have always had to deal with. And it's been more than manageable.

Mild problem with this is that I tend to rely on the appraise bought lenses/healing kits/temp essences being in player shops, when running a lower level character.

This change just made lowbie life a lot less affordable.

Seems like the incorrect method of fixing the npc vendor appraise running problem.

Less affordable does not equal impossible to afford. I've leveled plenty of characters with zero appraise, buying all the consumables from NPC vendors. Sounds like you've just gotten used to ridiculously low prices.

And let me point out, to get the essences the majority of the playerbase desires, you need to seek out a certain NPC with a certain amount of levels in certain classes. And for many UD players, doing so is like walking into a mine field and just waiting to get jumped by five elves.

What's stopping people from still selling essences, if they're that hard to get? Nothing. People will pay for convenience. They're just worth more now.

[Morderon]

My thoughts:

1) Appraise runs had to go.

2) Sucks for those who invested into appraise for majorly home base type characters. I always saw it as the mundane answer to wands.

3) We'd have to see if it's worth the investment now compared to say search/open lock/disable trap on a limited skill point build. Quantity of goods found typically beats out quality of them being sold. Especially given when the items might be sold in ways that don't consider appraise (between PC's or PC shops).

4) When selling, appraise should use the highest amount from any nearby party member (this one may even be in the works!).

5) Crafting points should be capped at x4 of whatever the character can get (so capped at 200+any crafting boonsx4) but still refreshed at the rate now (50+crafting boons every IG day). That way you don't lose out on that crafting potential for being unable to log in. At least for that reason; if you don't have the resources to use those points then shame on you.

[caldura firebourne]

And let me point out, to get the essences the majority of the playerbase desires, you need to seek out a certain NPC with a certain amount of levels in certain classes. And for many UD players, doing so is like walking into a mine field and just waiting to get jumped by five elves.

true, and yet makes no sense to me every time it happens

"you mean you came here to trade with a gnoll, but there's more than one so one needs to die?"

[A Mystery Clock]

My thoughts:

1) Appraise runs had to go.

Appraise running, folks, was insane. And in the end it bit casual players in the Snuggybear way more than lenses, raise dead scrolls or essences being a touch pricier (something that may also be fixed with ease- it would just take kicking the price a little bit down, though to be fair as it stands it is not unreasonably unaffordable). Why?

Because Appraise runs allowed anyone slapping 20 ranks in appraise and compiling/speeding up a couple macros to make a solid 100k in little under 30 min. 200k in one hour. 700k a week by being extremely casual about it. This meant being able to throw money at everyone and everything and consequently either buying out more casual, "poor" players or forcing Appraise Games that boiled down to multi-millionaires vs multi-millionaires pulling money out of thin air and throwing around sums no non-appraise runner could have ever beaten without literally grinding 24/7.

That bounty you sweated hard to pay? Paid off by running a couple macros.
Oh, you want to buy a quarter? Previous owner paid three millions for it. Better start grinding.
I don't like your faction, your character, and I don't like -you-. Here, let me place 50k bounties on boards, and pay infinite people for killing you, until you will either roll or leave.
War? Lololol, I just need to keep placing money in coffers. No sweat.

And much, much more. While you may just see lense prices going up, what you don't see is the millions that were thrown around behind your back, stacking the odds against people who want (and tip of the hat to you) to play fair with the formal equivalent of "press f4 for infinite money". Are there some people who hoarded money? Of course. But now it's not a renewable resource anymore, and it -will- eventually bleed out. This will actually provide a -benefit- for the average player, by not making them wear themselves thin against unbeatable fountains of gold.

This came from someone who DID invest into appraise, and had a pretty big market revolving on sale of lenses/essences in the underdark. Hell, built a reputation and helped kick the rank of outcasts up the food chain out of it. I'd really rather lose that than see appraise runs (or their equivalent) return in any shape or form.

[StandingOnTheShouldersOfGiants]

compiling/speeding up a couple macros

Sorry. I don't understand what this means. Could you elaborate?

[A Mystery Clock]

compiling/speeding up a couple macros

Sorry. I don't understand what this means. Could you elaborate?

Edit: related viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10499&hilit=bulk

Absolutely. Macros are scripts, ran by external programs, that among other things may record the mouse movements needed to buy, let's say potatoes, from a merchant. And then may play it again x times, at any speed you fancy, for example filling your inventory with potatoes with just one click.

You then stroll to merchant b, who buys potatoes for 100 gp more than you bought them for, and run the second macro. This macro recorded you selling the entire amount of potatoes in your inventory, sped up 100 times.

And lo! One click to fill your inventory. A leisurely stroll. A click on the second macro (or if you're fancy, bind the two different macros to hotkeys) and you're 80k richer. Repeat as needed, with no carpal tunnel syndrome attached.

This, I will add, is a well known technique on many MMOs. Due to being formally cheating, it is also more often than not a bannable offense. It was however perfectly legal on Arelith, and colloquially known as "appraise scumming".

From urban dictionary:

Macro
noun: a program that allows the player of an MMORPG computer game to leave the computer alone while his game character does menial, repetitive work. These programs are illegal, but widely used, because the kind of tedious labor they perform for you is quite maddening over time. A "macroer" is a player using such a program.

Examples:

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Macro

http://shardsonline.com/forums/discussi ... -and-other

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/309775/define-macro

[caldura firebourne]

the next logical step would be to remove the gold that was macro'd for, seeing as the damage has been done and likely those who've maxed their banks are just never going to delete the character, making them vastly overpowerful if left alone, especially now that you can't cheat to catch up to them

[A Mystery Clock]

That's going a bit overboard, and it would require the staff to do more work than the CIA in order to determine something that can't be logged, across about 20.000 characters. That "now you can't cheat to catch up to them" is worrying to say to the very least, because it implies exactly the point I was making. This kind of attitude forces others to cheat to be on par, or fall behind, lowering the global quality of players and making Arelith more similar to the old wild west, rather than fixing the issue.

Maybe something may be done about it, but it's tricky. I'd say, let the staff work their magic, as the first logical step when your faucets are broken and flooding the house is cutting off the water flow. Then, and only then, you start mopping. And then you'll repair the faucets.

[iria_huntress]

The problem I have with that claim, Mystery, is they don't even try to look into it half the time. I have seen DM's go off hearsay plenty of times. I KNOW someone specific has been chewed out twice for things I've done. Like starting PVP with a councilor of a district we were at war with. I made the first shot (within the rules), and someone else was given a warning because Bjorgunmork complained about them. They didn't look into it. They didn't even care, apparently. They just hated the player. If you aren't going to look into it, don't try to fix it. You'll only muck things up worse.

Blanket answers that punish the wrong people, simply to get at the few that are actually in the wrong, is not the solution. Appraise (as is) can only be seen as a punishment. Not a new "feature". More game breaking for many concepts. Those shops that you say are going to disappear. What if that shop was a large portion of their RP, and the appraise helped them supplement their supplies? Well, who cares! The guy with 9 million in his bank MIGHT start losing money over the next RL year. YAY! WE DID SOMETHING!

[caldura firebourne]

That's going a bit overboard, and it would require the staff to do more work than the CIA in order to determine something that can't be logged, across about 20.000 characters. That "now you can't cheat to catch up to them" is worrying to say to the very least, because it implies exactly the point I was making. This kind of attitude forces others to cheat to be on par, or fall behind, lowering the global quality of players and making Arelith more similar to the old wild west, rather than fixing the issue.

Maybe something may be done about it, but it's tricky. I'd say, let the staff work their magic, as the first logical step when your faucets are broken and flooding the house is cutting off the water flow. Then, and only then, you start mopping. And then you'll repair the faucets.

I find it hard to believe there are no cheaters out there that didn't make it painfully obvious they were doing so

[Sab1]

I have to agree that it seems best to wait till all the updates are over to see if this is good or not. It's a bit early to panic or say things have been ruined.

[Dunshine]

They didn't look into it. They didn't even care, apparently. They just hated the player. If you aren't going to look into it, don't try to fix it. You'll only muck things up worse.

You're entitled to your opinion about the appraise change, and I don't even mind you posting it multiple times, but the part quoted above is the limit. If you have any issues with DM rulings or think someone is treated unfair, bring it to us admins and we'll look into it (we DO care), and we hold the DM team to very high standards in being fair. I think we have an excellent DM crew atm, who don't deserve to be called out like this.

[Aftond]

Kitruns sucked.
Players stocking their shops with healingkits and temps for a slightly higher price is alright, although sucks for shop variety. Kinda glad to see this trend fade away. Cooking new meta now???
Prices being the same at every vendor is a nice quality of life improvement(Havent checked the ud yet, but it was the same in Cordor and Sibayad).
Let's hope for something /real bueno/ for crafters.