PvP Death System

[Quoth]

Also the 2 hours you are forced to stay in game to get rid of it.(as the character suffering)

[dirza]

Also the 2 hours you are forced to stay in game to get rid of it.(as the character suffering)

That is actually great. But only if other penalties are not present (like penalties lasting so long). Though imho it should be one hour not two.

[Fallout]

I don't know how you people's RP builds get in PvP so often. It's a really rare occurrence for me, even on my characters that are more warlike.

Don't you guys know how to beg for your lives?!?!

This!!!

Also can you guys also consider to temporary disable usage of portal lens if toon is pvped but risen?
I know its possible that an ally rise you in combat but except losing your wards this too would be nice penalty, it happen several times to me those that were captured by pvp and accept the rez simply would portal out.
Still way to get yoinked and usage of attument potion can be used or teleportation if toon has such focus.

I like this change it wouldnt work several years before as much now when people are nicer and accept defeat easier with so many nice opposing factions that make fun losing. Dont know, but i actually expect less corpse bashing.
Lets see what hapoens.

[Viceroy]

I think this is objectively one of the worst changes to a server I have ever seen. It does nothing but make the environment more toxic. Players will become more upset if they lose. Being forced to sit out for a minimum of 20 minutes before doing anything will mean that you are basically going to create more desire for revenge and fuel the already toxic cycle of revenge killings.

Lets not even get into the fact that this makes playing any sort of villain worthless. A villain should allow counterplay and sometimes the good guy should win. But why the hell would I ever want to give them a chance if I am going to be serverely punished for it? This just incentivises never losing. It incentivises powergaming far more. It incentivises minmaxing. And it incentivises going around with a strong group of friends who can strongarm anyone into actions if they don't wish to do what you say by potentially ruining your entire week or more with any prolonged or extended conflict?

I just think that the heart was in the right place, but this is a case of absolutely poor execution. In trying to make pvp mean more, you will alienate more players. Because guess what? The crazy PvP builders are not the ones you are punishing.

Instead why not focus on some other sort of penalty, or maybe some kind of system that is interesting but doesnt feel absolutely toxic and horrible to be on the receiving end of?

Saying the 'Be Nice' rule applies so this should not ever be an issue is actually one of the most silly things as well because you will just make more work for DMs when a player is upset about -any- pvp happening to their character.

Normally I would be more constructive by offering additional solutions to improve a system I disagree with. But if you cannot actually see why this is such a huge problem then I don't actually know what else to say.

[One Two Three Five]

But if you cannot actually see why this is such a huge problem then I don't actually know what else to say.

100% agree and wanted to highlight this

[FrozenSolid]

The only issue I see with it so far, is not being able to wait off the penalty offline.

The server I played on waaaay back when just kicked you in the knee for XP. Aka, you were guaranteed to lose 1-3 levels depending on how high your character was, or more.

Plus, The death penalty ONLY applies if your corpse is destroyed. You could be raised right? Bypassing the mechanic entirely. And I don't think corpse destruction is ~Too~ common

[Viceroy]

You have never been to the Underdark, have you Frozen?

[FrozenSolid]

I have not : / neither of my characters has even properly entered Andunor. Maybe the issue then isn't the mechanic, but how it is being used by the players?

[Viceroy]

The underdark is a much more brutal place where PVP happens a lot more. So does corpse bashing. Because its a den of evil and villainy. Nobody sits around trying to solve scooby doo mysteries like they do on the surface. They corpsebas you? Loot you? And if you come across a body that isnt a friend you laugh and maybe throw it in the trash can.

Welcome to Andunor

[dirza]

If people have problém with 20minute timer on respawn, then the problém lies elsewhere and they should go and seek help from specialist.

...because, damned, this is just a game.

Or i am just getting too old and cannot ever grasp how seriously people (and WHY) get connected to the game, that waiting twenty minutes is such awful, unfair, and ugly treatment to them.

My apology but this is just a sily game and you act like your life would depend on those twenty minutes...:O

[One Two Three Five]

If I only have 40 minutes to play because I have a life outside of being an elf, I'm not going to spend half of it waiting for a stupid timer. No one is. What are you even trying to say?

[FrozenSolid]

Tbf, I don't think you can accomplish almost anything on Arelith in 40 minutes, less it was some casuall RP encounters, or some quick resource grabbing.

I don't even try to do anything with that amount of time.

I get the time crunch. But even if you die and have to respawn anyways, you're still crippled to being useless so nothing changes.

[Viceroy]

The issue isn't just on the death timer. Its also the fact that after that death timer you cannot really do anything for upwards of two hours or so.

And yeah. Its a game. I dont know about you, but I play a game to relax and enjoy myself, not to get frustrated and angry because Ic actions lead to needlessly annoying and toxic consequences.

I dont mind dying. I don't mind losing with the old system. Hell, just ask anyone who knew Khovod. A day without him being killed was a strange day indeed. But that made IC sense. There were IC reprocussions. But to then also make that player useless and need to stay around doing nothing for a good while after already having been defeated just feels like its a step in the wrong direction.

You will also just see more players circlegrind to level 30 before they do anything meaningful as to be able to kill others who dislike it rather than taking real risks early as a character may be prone to do

[If Valor Were Inches]

If people have problém with 20minute timer on respawn, then the problém lies elsewhere and they should go and seek help from specialist.
...because, damned, this is just a game.

Or i am just getting too old and cannot ever grasp how seriously people (and WHY) get connected to the game, that waiting twenty minutes is such awful, unfair, and ugly treatment to them.

My apology but this is just a sily game and you act like your life would depend on those twenty minutes...:O

Yes, it's just a game. But games are supposed to be entertaining.

In a single player game, if you die, you reload. That's it, that's your penalty. Obviously this doesn't work for multiplayer, you don't want a reset and unending conflict. You need story. But the 24 hour rule already exists, so the players can't re-engage in PvP. Now with the PvP death counter on its own, it delays and dissuades the idea of another bout of PvP, influencing a different story tool or outcome.

My life doesn't depend on twenty minutes. I can log out, switch characters, or wait it out with twenty-minutes of long conversation.

Now, if they gave you something to do in death for twenty minutes that was entertaining, my thoughts would change a lot.

[dirza]

If I only have 40 minutes to play because I have a life outside of being an elf, I'm not going to spend half of it waiting for a stupid timer. No one is. What are you even trying to say?

When you die now on mid-epic level penalties you got already pin you in place till you recover. And if you pop in with 40 mins to play with determination to die...well. Right, random death happens but to say every time you go to play for 40 mins your going to wait 20 minutes in death zone is a bit off.

Imho what needs re work is how penalties on character would last, least to a single hour only (at maximum).

IF Valor Were Inches:
I dont insist on timer for respawning. But i dont feel in any way restricted by it or bound. I will just go to watch a TV, log for time, or anything else. Another thing is noone tells you engage in pvp 24hrs a day huh.

[Cuchilla]

Let's just give it a chance, say a couple of months.

The old system was rather odd too.

[Lorkas]

I think the lengthened respawn timer is worth watching for awhile to see how it works. Even the idea of lengthening the resurrection sickness seems fine to me.

The fact that recovery counts only online time, though, needs to go in my opinion. I don't want a couple months of that system, personally.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I have to ask... where is everyone getting the impression that you have to be on your character useless for this penalty to go away? Is it because the text of the update says In Game hours? Because I think that statement should more accurately read as "in-character" hours, which is to say, one real life hour = ten in-game hours.

If you are level 30, and you die in PvP and respawn, you have the same penalty as if you died and respawned in PvE. (30/3=10)x2=20 In-Game hours.

This does not mean you have to be logged in for the penalty to go away. It means two real life hours (RL time x 10 = In game time) before your penalties are gone. This penalty can, at maximum, become 8 (Real Life) hours, not required to be signed on as that character, If you engage and die in PvP four times in four real life days.

If you get into (and lose, and respawn from) PvP that often, I'll be the Snuggybear that goes out on a limb and says you're either doing it wrong, or your character SHOULD be constantly crippled.

Edit: I am not, however, a fan of PvE deaths proccing the PvP timer. I feel you should be able to die in PvP, then go out and pursue dungeons without worrying about your PvP death counter once your death penalty has worn off.

[Hunter548]

where is everyone getting the impression that you have to be on your character useless for this penalty to go away?

The death penalties will remain for an X ingame hours, which you really have to be online for. Offline hours won't count. Offline hours do count for the pvp counter.

[One Two Three Five]

I think the lengthened respawn timer is worth watching for awhile to see how it works. Even the idea of lengthening the resurrection sickness seems fine to me.

The fact that recovery counts only online time, though, needs to go in my opinion. I don't want a couple months of that system, personally.

I don't want two days with that system. A hiatus to a different game or life stuff seems way more reasonable than 'playing around' with a player-hostile system like this just in case it's magically fun.

[JediMindTrix]

I think the lengthened respawn timer is worth watching for awhile to see how it works. Even the idea of lengthening the resurrection sickness seems fine to me.

The fact that recovery counts only online time, though, needs to go in my opinion. I don't want a couple months of that system, personally.

+1

[Torrtorr]

I think the lengthened respawn timer is worth watching for awhile to see how it works. Even the idea of lengthening the resurrection sickness seems fine to me.

The fact that recovery counts only online time, though, needs to go in my opinion. I don't want a couple months of that system, personally.

I have to agree with that, if I die at 09:00 AM in the morning I should be able to play the game when I log back in at 7:00 PM.

What will happen is that people will leave their characters logged in for hours while being AFK to get rid of the resurrection sickness.

I really get the impression that this system came to be added to the server because there is little trust in the players roleplaying death properly which is a shame.

Losing can add to a character's background much more than always winning.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

where is everyone getting the impression that you have to be on your character useless for this penalty to go away?

The death penalties will remain for an X ingame hours, which you really have to be online for. Offline hours won't count. Offline hours do count for the pvp counter.

.... I stand corrected on the issue of the hours needing to be online. That detail should really be posted prominently in the update thread, where it currently isn't.

That part is crazy, and should be changed ASAP IMO. The rest of the world doesn't stop when I log out. Characters are not considered to cease existing. My character's quarter timer did not suspend when I was logged out, either.

But I stand by the rest of my sentiment.

[Viceroy]

This is why I said. That this system is fundementally broken and easily abused. Especially if you are in the Underdark. That place is full of Murderhobos. And rightfully so. But that doesnt make it any less toxic to be totally screwed over.

[If Valor Were Inches]

where is everyone getting the impression that you have to be on your character useless for this penalty to go away?

The death penalties will remain for an X ingame hours, which you really have to be online for. Offline hours won't count. Offline hours do count for the pvp counter.

.... I stand corrected on the issue of the hours needing to be online. That detail should really be posted prominently in the update thread, where it currently isn't.

That part is crazy, and should be changed ASAP IMO. The rest of the world doesn't stop when I log out. Characters are not considered to cease existing. My character's quarter timer did not suspend when I was logged out, either.

But I stand by the rest of my sentiment.

Same sentiments. I can wait and see on the rest. Realistically, I don't know if people get in PvP on a weekly or daily basis to really judge if the hypothetical worse-situation would happen a lot.

Another possible helpful change is to only have the procs increase for the engager (The first person to attack), not the defender. This would give attacking a bit more scare than defending, which would ease more worries.