Arelith

I played a strength based paladin as my main for a while and it was amazingly fun and able to tear and melt mobs like butter in an oven.

He was also great in PvP too.

Hedgehog wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:31 pm I played a strength based paladin as my main for a while and it was amazingly fun and able to tear and melt mobs like butter in an oven.

He was also great in PvP too.

Paladins are a special case, and one of only a small handful of options that can pull off STR melee, because they have enough of an overwhelming AB advantage to counter DEX AC. Many of these options, unsurprisingly, are or include divine classes.

It’s also better dex-based, imo. Any build with div might/div shield is better off dex so long as it can handle the more aggressive feat requirements.

Scurvy Cur wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:17 pm It’s also better dex-based, imo. Any build with div might/div shield is better off dex so long as it can handle the more aggressive feat requirements.

The feat requirements is what makes it not better. Divine builds only need 8 dex to reach their ac potential whole dex people need 13 str base to have divine feats.

It’s not really relevant so long as the feats work out. For example, on an abj pally you trade 1 AB or 1 point of cha mod to make feat requirements work. You lose 7ish damage from going from 12-13 buffed STR mod to 5-6.

In exchange, you wind up 5-6 baseline AC higher and have blinding speed. As a side perk, your reflexes go from being your worst save to being about on par w/your fort.

You’re absolutely better off dex based. Were I to roll another abj paladin

I stated before in this thread I'm not really counting Divine Might/Wrath/Shield in favor of STR builds since you can just slap those on a DEX build and be even better off.

FollowerOfMask wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:55 pm I do think fighters could use some love, some way. Barbs too, from what I'm hearing.

Barbs already at the good state, dud.

NPC Logger Number 2 wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:21 pm I stated before in this thread I'm not really counting Divine Might/Wrath/Shield in favor of STR builds since you can just slap those on a DEX build and be even better off.

But you can't just slap it in!

Starting 13 str vs 8 dex is 5 stat points! Also ifnyou do a dex build, you have to make sure your build includes uncanny dodge

Scurvy Cur wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:10 pm It’s not really relevant so long as the feats work out. For example, on an abj pally you trade 1 AB or 1 point of cha mod to make feat requirements work. You lose 7ish damage from going from 12-13 buffed STR mod to 5-6.

In exchange, you wind up 5-6 baseline AC higher and have blinding speed. As a side perk, your reflexes go from being your worst save to being about on par w/your fort.

You’re absolutely better off dex based. Were I to roll another abj paladin

So 1 ac (divine shield) and ab lost and for 5 to 6 base line ac. Net lost of 3 to 4 ac/ab and lack of pain from not having uncanny dodge for like forever. Also you have the option to always 2 hand as str based for even more ab which will be essential against a mage that doesn't care about your ac as much as your raw ab, damage and dispel effects. I guess both are viable.


Also any dex based character is going to have a hell of a time when an arcane archer repeatively shoots them in the legs.

FollowerOfMask wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:38 pm

Dr. B wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:12 pm Are you carrying around scrolls and/or potions of Mage Armor, Shield, and Cat's Grace? Do you have +1 AC on your boots and amulet? Those will help somewhat. 2-handers do suffer from lower AC but you should be able to achieve better than 31 if you use the right tools. Expertise is also helpful. So is concealment. A displacer beast cloak is handy here.

I'm not voicing a verdict on whether 2-handers could use a buff, but there are definitely some solutions to the problem you've described here.

Oh yeah, I excluded those from my calculations. Once I hit imp. expertise AND buff, I'll likely get around 50-55ish, but still will have trouble hitting attacks on 60+ AC, due to the soft ability cap of +12, amongst other things. I'm not here to debate mechanics. More to add the perspective of a newish/returning player who's more interested in story vs min-max.

I'm not even suggesting that you min-max. I'm only noting that 31 is very low and there are sources of AC you're not using. You can use them and still enjoy the story-aspects of the server, too.

Scurvy Cur wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:17 pm It’s also better dex-based, imo. Any build with div might/div shield is better off dex so long as it can handle the more aggressive feat requirements.

Scurvy Cur wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:10 pm It’s not really relevant so long as the feats work out. For example, on an abj pally you trade 1 AB or 1 point of cha mod to make feat requirements work. You lose 7ish damage from going from 12-13 buffed STR mod to 5-6.

In exchange, you wind up 5-6 baseline AC higher and have blinding speed. As a side perk, your reflexes go from being your worst save to being about on par w/your fort.

You’re absolutely better off dex based. Were I to roll another abj paladin

I respect you and you are a very good builder which I've learned stuff from...

But what are you talking about man?

Going dex based as a caster paladin is nearly impossible BECAUSE you need 13 str, 16 dex (so its 18 with gift if you actually want to reach blinding speed), 14 int, 11 wisdom, 14 cha (before gift) and you're left with 8 con, or 10 con if you start 12 cha before gift. This sounds disastrous and I dont know how you say the exchange is 7 damage for 6 ac. Its misleading. I'm looking at it on the cbc and sure, it technically can fit in all the must-take feats if going one handed but it's going to lack epic discipline, epic prowess and KD and imp crit. Also you'll get your uncanny dodge at lvl 25 earliest. Why man. why.

So to put it simply, the extra feats and stats you need as a dexer here make a bigger difference than you make it seem, and it ends up at more than just 7 damage for 6 ac. Please. It's far better off str based unless: 13+ rogue lvls for e-dodge OR if you take monk dip, forgo charisma, play quarterstaff-abjurer pally with next to no damage but more ac.