Arelith

I don't think the context changes my issue with the name. "Swole" is a modern populized term and the usage of it in the disguise "Swoleathan" with the intent of communicating that meaning is a meme. The context doesn't resolve the issue I have with the disguise. I'm really replying now because I do enjoy your roleplay and we've roleplayed before. I don't think you're a bad roleplayer, but it completely took me out of the scene of immersion and converted the Hub out of a dark, threatening environment.

And, "Swoleathan" isn't the only disguise that had this effect. It's one of many. I need to know if this is expected usage of disguise (and if so, I guess I'll just have to suck it up) or is it against the rules specifically because these meme disguises reduce the immersion of the setting and scene.

I think joke disguise names are really the same as meme disguises. Someone wanting to disguise as Jonathan Rigsby should be disguised “Jonathan Rigsby”, and then whatever similarities or differences can be described in the description or through roleplay. Going on the same example, Swoleathan is as bad as doing other meme or internet slang language like Dankathan, Pogathan, Cringethan, Litrizzchungusathan, etc etc.

People seem to think it’s fine if it’s just amongst friends, but we don’t apply this thinking to other breaks of setting or the rules. A player outside your clique that walks by and sees this stuff will not necessarily get the joke.

Having been playing in Andunor for a little bit now recently I've definitely seen an uptick in disguises being thrown out as jokes, and its very clear there's really no attempt being put in to actually make use of the disguise as an actual disguise. It seems to me like people are just throwing names on as a joke, whether they claim otherwise or not, and it's sapped all the immersion out of the setting.

One of the issues with the -disguise feature is that it makes identifying and reporting its abuse more difficult as misleading players on an OOC level is one of its core functions and the very point of it. This makes system measures hindering players from unwanted/unintended use even more important.

IMO -disguise names should be randomly generated rather than giving players the option to enter one themselves - that'd pretty much take away any and all forms of unintended/forbidden use of the -disguise feature.

However, this would also mean the loss of:

• alter ego RP - clearly this is a big one, but at a same time there's a rather large amount of characters who assume their alter ego 24/7 despite the DM team making it abundantly clear that this wasn't the intended use for the -disguise feature either.
• disguising as somebody else - while an interesting concept in theory, let's be honest here - how many times have we seen this being actually pulled off or executed right?

I want the Top Ten best moments on the server that were only possible because of -disguise.

It's such a convoluted system for someone trying to re-enter Arelith -- I don't know what it adds or enables anymore (villains to thrive? see a dozen other threads where the struggle is still real).

It's an amazing system and extremely useful. But it's also probably way too easily accessed. Maybe people without significant skill investment shouldn't be able to change their name and you would need at least 50+ bluff/perform before you can do it. Or there could be feat investment, like you need skill focus to disguise your name pre-epic and epic skill focus in epic levels.

I expect most of the meme abuse is coming from characters with no investment at all so this would weed a lot of that out.

Rubricae wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:10 pm

why don't we go after meme names while we're at it, too

I do remember an orog named Mike Oxmaul....

Seven Sons of Sin wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:55 pm

I want the Top Ten best moments on the server that were only possible because of -disguise.

It's such a convoluted system for someone trying to re-enter Arelith -- I don't know what it adds or enables anymore (villains to thrive? see a dozen other threads where the struggle is still real).

If I were going to assume malice instead of incompetence I would say it enables the disguiser to report people for holding them accountable for their actions IC when we all know who is responsible for killing XYZ. As it stands it's the barest layer of obfuscation that makes it just inconvenient enough to actually hold people accountable for their actions that most people who aren't full on Arelith Andys aren't going to put in the ten minutes of effort to track the guy down and bust him for it. At this point I'm at least two-thirds convinced it's mostly a mechanism to keep themselves from getting scried by either of the two diviners on a given server at a time.

I find them annoying and the usual defences of "its just a joke bro" a bit shortsighted. In and of itself it's not a big deal, but it's a "broken windows" thing where it escalates and normalises other silly, OOC behaviour.

When I see it, I see a player who is not present in the gameworld, but whose priority is getting a chuckle out of some sweaty Discord voice chat. It also feels like it's taken as an opportunity to communicate in-group status to the rest of the server. You're walking around with an inside joke literally on your head.

Seven Sons of Sin wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:55 pm

I want the Top Ten best moments on the server that were only possible because of -disguise.

It's such a convoluted system for someone trying to re-enter Arelith -- I don't know what it adds or enables anymore (villains to thrive? see a dozen other threads where the struggle is still real).

I once got a messenger from someone disguised to be a person I was talking to when their messenger showed up. We both went to meet them.

-XXX- wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 1:31 pm

One of the issues with the -disguise feature is that it makes identifying and reporting its abuse more difficult as misleading players on an OOC level is one of its core functions and the very point of it. This makes system measures hindering players from unwanted/unintended use even more important.

IMO -disguise names should be randomly generated rather than giving players the option to enter one themselves - that'd pretty much take away any and all forms of unintended/forbidden use of the -disguise feature.

However, this would also mean the loss of:

• alter ego RP - clearly this is a big one, but at a same time there's a rather large amount of characters who assume their alter ego 24/7 despite the DM team making it abundantly clear that this wasn't the intended use for the -disguise feature either.
• disguising as somebody else - while an interesting concept in theory, let's be honest here - how many times have we seen this being actually pulled off or executed right?

I understand the DM logging tools have grown much more sophisticated over the years. Backlands has put an admirable amount of love into the server's code and security. They have the tools at their disposal to check logs and disguised names and who are using them. Players just need to report when they see names that are an abuse of the system.

I'd rather see people report rulebreaks instead of theorize about how to unnecessarily gatekeep my ability to go -disguise "Sorrel"

I would really like to comment that what is being discussed here, and used as an example of a meme disguises, is actually a portmanteau of modern language and peoples names. This is a literary that's almost 150 years old and there is nothing 'meme' related about it.

In the examples I've seen mentioned in this thread there are two very different things:
Swolethan- A portmanteau of swole, or swollen, and Jonathan. A perfectly acceptable literary device with 150 years of history.

Hawk'tuah Guard- While I think it's hilarious it's a reference to OOC cultural events, aka a meme. Something that has only existed due to recent events.

I've been refraining to really discuss the 'swole' disguise that's been pointed out in this discussion, because I simply wanted to state that there needs to be some level of restraint and thoughtfulness used with the disguise system to uphold the server integrity and immersion for our fellow players, and encourage discussion and understanding.

On the specifics of the word 'swole', Darkstorn would be correct. Swole is a very old word. Over 500 years old, in fact. Merriam Webster has an intriguing article about the etymological origins of the word swole. https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordpla ... e-watching

Basically the article shows that the word 'swole' was being used in the 1500s as the past tense of the word 'swell'. It was being used in poetry and other forms of literature, before different past tenses of the word, like 'swollen' or 'swelled' began to become more popular in writing style.

However, we shouldn't be insensitive to how the word swole has evolved within the context of our modern culture and slang. Swole in modern context refers to someone who is muscular and built. It's slang used by the weight lifting community online. It also has connotations with internet meme culture (for example, google the swole doge meme). From what it sounds like from the context of the disguise, the word swole was joined with the name Johnathan to make a joke that describes a very buff Johnathan, within the modern, slang definition of the word swole. Therefore it was seen by someone as a 'meme disguise' for that reason, and took away their immersion. Maybe the more sensitive way to have made this disguise and maintain the funny would have been to call it 'Strongathan'.

It's not my job to rules-lawyer though, and I am not a DM. At the end of the day I'm just trying to encourage people to be more thoughtful with how they conduct themselves using the disguise system. If there's worry about whether or not a disguise is appropriate, the DM team can assist. The wiki has also been updated for this reason to bring clarity on how the disguise system can be used appropriately to uphold role-play and the setting.

The disguise system in the game allows players to pretend to be someone they're not. When using a disguise, you take on a fake identity that is completely separate from your true persona. Other characters have no way of knowing your fake identity except if you reveal it to them. Unless you're actually masquerading as someone named "Swoleathan," then the disguise is considered an out-of-character joke to the server.

I don't want to dive into the discussion itself too much since I get the overall point being made and recognize that the iterations of my character were just one example of the larger grievance. But since the thread does touch on current ig behavior I just wanted to note that the wave of Johnathans are following an ic development and the swarm itself isn't a meme.

-XXX- wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 1:31 pm

One of the issues with the -disguise feature is that it makes identifying and reporting its abuse more difficult as misleading players on an OOC level is one of its core functions and the very point of it. This makes system measures hindering players from unwanted/unintended use even more important.

IMO -disguise names should be randomly generated rather than giving players the option to enter one themselves - that'd pretty much take away any and all forms of unintended/forbidden use of the -disguise feature.

However, this would also mean the loss of:

• alter ego RP - clearly this is a big one, but at a same time there's a rather large amount of characters who assume their alter ego 24/7 despite the DM team making it abundantly clear that this wasn't the intended use for the -disguise feature either.
• disguising as somebody else - while an interesting concept in theory, let's be honest here - how many times have we seen this being actually pulled off or executed right?

It's an enforcement issue in the end, I really do think people should treat the quotation marks as not existing (both the metagamers and the disguisers).

I would bet that if the DMs make it clear that "non-name" disguises are unacceptable and just blanket crack down on them, they'll vanish real quick and the problem will be solved.

And I also bet removing the quotation marks would similarly solve this issue, since then every disguise name and every 'regular' name are put on an even playing field in terms of standards for "what they should be".
(Removing the quotation marks would be so good!!)

Removing quotations marks is never going to happen. Too easy to impersonate another player and ruin their reputation/cause OOC trouble.

Based on recent feedback we have made some clarifications on the rules for the use of the Disguise system. Most of these changes have been pulled in from the previous Disguise rules section on the wiki with minimal revisions.

You can find the full updated rules on the Astrolabe in the section titled "Disguises and Scrying".

It is important to note that using the disguise system for fourth wall leaning jokes, memes and internet slang is a misuse of the disguise system and detrimental to the server setting and immersion.

If you have concerns about how the disguise system can be appropriately used, or what is or is not appropriate, please approach the DM team.

https://astrolabe.nwnarelith.com/rules

Thank you!