Community and Cooperation; A lack thereof

[Dr. B]

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on RP quality on Arelith:

You need to have realistic expectations. When you consider the challenges of enforcing roleplay on an open server with hundreds of active players, Arelith is pretty good. Try to enforce roleplay with a heavier-hand and it will become less accessible, less appealing to a lot of players, and will go extinct like several other RP-heavy servers that have been mentioned here. That the overwhelming majority of players stay in character almost all the time is actually very impressive. And many of those players are stellar roleplayers with fantastic characters.

Arelith has always been what some people would call "RP light," and that's really never going to change, given that it needs to sustain player numbers and given that anyone can log on and enter the game world.

If you want a story that is very heavily focused on narrative and stringently puts storytelling ahead of game elements, you need to organize your own campaign with a small, curated group of players. NWN allows you to do that. It's just not something you can feasibly do on a server of Arelith's size and accessibility.

Manage your expectations and take the server for what it is.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I can only speak for myself, but when I said "arelith feels more like wow then d&d or even a traditional rp server" it was never intended to be an indictment of how people roleplay. A healthy online game has people of all skill levels playing, even when it comes to RP. The problem I see is that there is no real defined standard for rp here. There are standards pronounced everywhere about how your build should be and what sort of things you need to look out for in pvp, but when it comes to rp its basically don't break the rules and stay in character. There is no incentive to improve that facet of the game, so while people are forever getting better at pve and pvp there are plenty of players that seem to be in a holding pattern of playing avatars of themselves year after year. Sure, part of that is on them for not taking that next step. But if the goal is to have Arelith be an Rp server, good rpers should feel the love and people who not only play their character well but foster good rp from others should be treated like gods. You find a way to do that, and all of a sudden I guarantee you will find folks not only asking what the best splash for wizard is or what the feat spread is for a proper Fighter/COT/WM, they will be asking how they can improve their roleplay as well.

[Zavandar]

How do you think good RP should be incentivized? How would you define good rp?

"Good RPers" definitely seem to be feeling some kind of love. We have a kudos subforum for that. We have an RPR system (though many people seem to have problems with it). People also ask how they can improve their roleplay all the time already. Spend any time in the official discord and you'll see it. People asking questions about conduct, about writing, about lore.

Could anyone please take a shot at answering the questions posed in my prior post and in this one?

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

To touch on something others have... people are talking 'impact' and 'consequence' and 'changing the server' and such.

I'd be very interested in people giving some fictional examples of what they mean? What sort of things would they invision being avaiable in such a situaiton?

Here's a few simple ones that I thought up as I wrote. Don't judge


-After months of planning and involving others in ways like having one of your ic allies infiltrate the guard to increase your odds, a small group of players are given the opportunity to try an assassinate the king of Cordor. It shouldn't be easy, and if they die on the attempt I would suggest enforcing permadeath to make the stakes real, but if they succeed an entire new Cordor based plot launches where all the nobles are vying for the throne and using pcs as their minions in fun ways to try and win.

-A Cleric of Umberlee seeks the rod of splash, but its broken into five pieces. Not only have the dms run events for said cleric and their group to find those pieces, they used an npc or something to involve others to make gathering it a race. But if the Cleric of Umberlee wins, they can use said rod to call upon a giant tidal wave destroying the docks in Guldorand. Due to the high number of merchant ships being destroyed as a result, taxes are raised on shops and housing by 25% for the next in game year.

- A dm hands a plot to a group of nefarious sorts through the red wizards in guldorand. The goal is to find the jewel of ooh lala so he can finally return home and wipe out the zukirs and control thay for himself. Another dm introduces the same plot from a different angle, this time to the harpers who get word from their kindred back home that this red wizard suceeding in his goal would be devastating to all of faerun. If the harpers win, the red wizards are forced to shut down for a while. You can even turn their attempts at redemption after hanging the guy involved with the first plot into a plot of its own.

[Curve]

I'd like for someone to define what "high rp" and/or "heavy rp" is to me.

I want to say that I don't prescribe to the notion of high and low rp, I think that leads to elitism and further isolation into camps. TRM clarified his stance on the matter pretty well, go back and check that out on page two. What I do think that is that certain things are not low rp, rather they are avatar behavior and should be a top priority to be changed. Things like meme'ing, things like run grinding, things like running everywhere rather than walking, things like carrying two axes cause it makes your spot higher. I don't want to get too specific because not any one thing is the issue.

What I would love to see is the DMs put out a statement that basicly says, "we are going to start enforcing rule one more rigidly when it comes to certain things. these things are X, Y, and Z. 'On Arelith we are in character 100% of the time and there are no exceptions.'"

I would really like to highlight this because I think it is hinting at the core of the issue,

-Running.
-Writs.

Stop letting people run everywhere, both in PvE and out. It contributes to the idea that this is a game to be rushed through, it degrades immersion, and it creates a toxic atmosphere where players, like you Zavander, feel compelled to:

mirror what I am given

and-

Writs should either go away or they should be limited to one a day. If you need to increase the rewards for that one writ then do it. But, writs like running contribute to the idea that Arelith is a game to be rushed through. They make leveling so easy that people say, "rp starts at 30" rather than rp starts when you log into the server, continues when you want to get to Bendir quickly, and even continues when you are grinding in the orclands.

Next subject is,

I'd be very interested in people giving some fictional examples of what they mean? What sort of things would they invision being avaiable in such a situaiton?

I don't think that giving players more agency in changing the server would be a productive use of anyone's time. Now is the time when player agency in changing the server is at it's highest. What I would rather see would be less pigeonholing of factions and RP avenues. For example,
-Sencliff should be a blank slate with pirate themes like it was in the Institute days rather than a place now only really fitting to pirates.
-Radiant Heart should not exsist as it pushes all paladin and Triad rp into one specific place and type.

This is not a huge deal, but it is something. I think that the staff should keep things more neutral and less specific in design and through that empower players to create new things, fresh ideas.

[DM Monkey]

There's a massive diversity in our community. Styles of roleplay, types of fun, backgrounds of players. All of it comes together to create a world that is always changing and always different. Everyone likes something different. There's nothing wrong with you liking something more than something else, and you shouldn't think there is anything wrong with players who enjoy certain aspects of the game more than others.

If you want the server to change in a particular way, you need to BE the example of the behaviours and styles that you want to see in other people, and you need to be able to convince others of it's worth in FUN.

[Drowboy]

"Nae runnin!" look, look

That was cool when I was a recent high school graduate on a gap year and had unlimited free time
If I only have a couple hours to actually play, I'm not burning 45% of it walking between towns
Maybe you don't value your own free time, that's fine, but don't try and force that on everyone else

[Skarain]

The way I have understood it, Arelith is player driven in its execution of it plots. And if you have an idea you are working to run, an event or another chance.... like that huge tidal wave thing to affect Guldorand, your best bet is to approach the DM team with your idea, with your character driving the pursuit after the "wand of splash". If they like your idea and the roleplaying potential it comes with, they may help you to execute it.

If this is what the server wants to promote, all it needs to do is write it out somewhere, in the manifesto, rulebook or something else. To my understanding that is how the server works, but not all people may be aware of it. Best also include some guidelines in terms of what can and can not be achieved easily, such as anything that requires area changes beyond DM spawned fixtures is generally a "no".

And whether what I remember is entirely wrong, feel free to disregard all of the above and what I said.

---
Secondly, of server identity. People speak of crisis. I do not see one. Most people I do encounter do stay in character and keep OOC in tells, bar in exception of an emergency. While the standard of RP may have lowered with the influx of players, that is not inherently a bad thing as long as certain light standards are upheld and encouraged. In terms of standard, I speak of the typical rules of a roleplaying community of "Stay In Character", " Do not Metagame", "Do not God-emote". At the same time, be kind and understanding towards your fellow player.

Not all players are as aware of these rules, so it is fine to send them a Tell them nicely in where they could improve, as well as show them a better example. Newer players to RP do learn through observing. It is a learning curve and we were all horrible in the beginning.

While running can be seen as an Out of Character mechanic, the people behind the characters may have a limited amount of time to play and simply want to get faster between point A to B to do what they prefer in the game. That is the same for portals existing. Some characters may also be speedsters who find walking too slow in-character, or have an in-character hurry somewhere. Most people I encounter "running" tend to slow down when approaching other roleplayers. This is polite behavior in my opinion and should be encouraged, but not enforced.

---

Thirdly, I do not think there is anything inherently bad in different type of playstyles. They should be able to coexist. What can be done is smoothen the edges where different style of playstyles rub against eachother.

"One-line PvP" could definitely see some improvement in narative buildup, and some greater flexibility on the assailing side on how the situation must escalate. Some polite DM talks on how to improve would help, assuming a "bad pvp encounter" was raised to their awarness. We are all here to tell a story, that much should be in common.

In terms of PvE, there are different type of playstyles. Some people prefer to grind hard, running with all buffs blazing and that is fine. If you find that kind of PvE not your style, Arelith isnt short on people to play with most of the time. You can always ask what kind of travel pace your companion will prefer in Tells before embarking. For those who prefer to take it slower, to my understanding the game actually generates more loot into chests if you travel slower, so there can be an incentive to not go all out guns blazing.

The removal of the -2 ECL gift did deincentivize Award Grinding to an extent, but it is also a reality we have to live with. Some people just want to get to play that one cool race, no matter the cost. I do not think they are disruptive on itself, as they tend to stick to the areas that are easiest to grind. If you wish to avoid such characters, Arelith isnt shy of other dangerous locations you can visit.

The claim that RP begins at lvl 30 is not entirely incorrect. If you aim to be an artagonistic force, high scores of Bluff will help. The introduction of Cover helps, but does not remove the fact that a high level character will still pierve through your guise with their bazillion Spot and thus your characters face is known as ner-doer for infinity and beyond. Not to mention that using PvP mechanics, if you are not least in epics, you stand zero chance against another max level. Obviously if you take a more social/diplomatic route to your shenanigans, then level becomes less relevant. Even less so when you recruit boduguards by your charscters charisma, drive and purpose alone.

Lastly, nothing bad with second life players, though i really do not like using that term. We are all roleplayers and invest our time however we wish. Regardless, they if anything are the people who make the world feel alive, with believable characters doing ordinary things. Not everything can be about blood, conquest and heroic adventure. Nor can you can't expect everyone to raise up to face a warmonger, or anyone else trying to shake the status quo.

If players of these type of playstyles would rather not be disturbed.... well, we do not live in a bubble. If you do not want to deal with... say, an invading army of monsters and slavers, find help among those who will and shift out of the way temporarily. If we do live in a living, breating world, sometimes you got to move with the flow and waves.

----

That is my two cents. If my post went straight past the point we were trying to discuss, my apologies. The topic is a bit hard to keep together.

If someone asked me what I would wish Arelith to be, it would be "a living, breathing place where we can tell stories and participate in them in a world where everyone gets along despite their minor preferences in their style of roleplay". I do not know if we need anything more than that.

Peace.

[Wethrinea]

Arelith is the third major server I have played, with The Three Kingdoms (way back in the days) being the first, and Amia (Arelith's sister server) being the second before the launch of EE. I did try Arelith once before EE, and it was not a good experience as my fresh of the boat level 3 character was kill-bashed in Cordor for being a "headless monster" before anyone bothered to tell me hakpaks were not compatible.

I think Arelith has come a long way since that, and not just because there are now haks. It is far more welcoming and less elitist than my impression of it was back then. It still has issues, both those general to RP servers and some that are Arelith specific.

Those specific to Arelith are mainly the lack of clear guidelines and what I call "FOIG" syndrome. The guidelines can be very confusing as a new player, as they seldom draw clear lines on what goes and what does not. As you spend more time in game you get a better feel for it, but it can be daunting as new entries. And finding them is quite the hassle too, as they don't seem to be gathered and kept up to date in an easily accessible format.

The FOIG syndrome is that many questions from genuinely confused players about what is essentially core mechanics of the game are answered with "FOIG". While that is a valid answer for knowledge of certain IC events that should require quite a bit of effort to learn, it should not be the answer when someone asks how the dweomer crafting or settlement system works, or for a general timeline of Arelith history. Sometimes people want to make characters that fit in with the history of the server and wish to know what happened to Light Keep or Kholingen so they can incorporate that.

As for issues that are general to most servers, the dilemma of player agency always pops up in one way or another. Too little of it, and the world feels stale as the actions of your characters are in the end futile and meaningless. Too much of it, and you risk steamrolling the wishes and desires of other players, as well as a huge burden on the developers.

The best solution I can see for this dilemma is to have a clearer DM driven narrative for the server, where characters can contribute at a level suitable for their available time and play style. Some wish, and have the time, to be movers and shakers. Others will be happy in a supporting role at best. If a narrative can engage and reward both of those types, I believe the world would feel more organic for the vast majority of the playerbase.

This is not meant as a comparison but an example: What I really liked about Amia was the overarching plots. A big one was the change in government in Cordor, from the downfall of the Duke, through revolution and then a "Time of Terror"-esque period of infighting, plots and conspiracy as various factions fought for influence, and the emergence of what was essentially a police state. All DM driven, but with heavy player involvement.

Such plots do not demand changes to areas to a large degree, but they make the world feel as an evolving one. And they allowed characters to be involved, from those who tried to usurp power themselves, to those who merely wished to support one faction over the other through voting or resource gathering.

But the one greatest improvement the playerbase can make themselves is a simple yet difficult one: Be more generous. Be generous to new players who have no clue about what RP is or how the server works. Be more generous to those players who's characters are antagonists of your own. Be more generous to the DM's who work tirelessly for free.

And be more generous in victory. Sure, it probably makes sense for your character to humiliate and try to eliminate the very existence of their foes, but what does that do to the player of that character? Are they then having fun? I am firmly in the camp that sees mutual enjoyment as a necessary condition for good RP, and I will bend my characters as far as reasonable for that to happen.

TLDR: Arelith is a good server, with excellent RP, interesting characters and many wonderful people. It has some issues specific to Arelith, and must also grapple with those that all other NwN servers do. A more active story narrative from the DM's would help, as would clearer guidelines. But most importantly, players being more generous on the whole would do a lot to improve the OOC atmosphere.

I have put in a lot of hours here over the last year and a half, so obviously I like playing here.

[-XXX-]

We experienced a tangible power creep over the last couple of years - both in character builds and in gear, yet the PvE content remained more or less the same.

As a result, players can afford to tackle it more recklessly.
It can be very difficult to RP during a dungeon crawl when the party members are already long past the next corner by the time you're finished typing even the simplest of sentences.

The general perception of PvE being this different aspect of the game where you can switch into the mindless grind mode inbetween downtimes reserved for actionless RP intensive talks certainly doesn't help either.

Just consider how approachable a character can be for other players when they are always either zooming through a dungeon or talking to their clique behind the locked doors of their guildhouse.

[ltlukoziuz]

I guess I should shoot my own two cents, considering I just returned to Arelith last weekend after a hiatus of two years.

First of all, a disclaimer - I'm not a mover and shaker, in fact, quite the opposite from that. I tried to do that once, but I both realized that it's not something for me, feeling constant anxiousness about both myself and those I tried to involve, not to mention I was not prepared mentally for it. Instead, I'm a reactionary, more of a backdrop type player, overseeing the world and the stories that go around me, offering a hand if I can help them out.

And honestly... nothing's changed for that over the years. One day I am acting as a guide to someone who literally just walked up and asked "Hey, you look like a man who can handle themselves well. Could I hire you?". Another day I'm sitting in a village and having a really long discussion about both past and present history of local areas (oh noes, not the social RP). I have certainly met people who were in a rush, either with you or circumventing you. I had been overtaken twice in dungeons when I was alone just because I deal with them slowly plus like to explore indirect paths/deadends, and forced to either leave or wait for a reset of monsters. The thing is - that was true two years ago too. When you have population this big, you will always have mixing styles of play, and that's fine. You seek out what you want, and you find what you want - and I am currently finding plenty of such people.

The only really noticeable thing is that the language is laxer nowadays in regards of writing style, but honestly, I find that a positive, not a negative. Sure, I myself try to write in perfect English even if I am ESL, but not everyone has the same command of it, whether it's their native tongue or not. Should we exclude them just because they don't do proper capitalization or syntax or grammar or what not? I doubt many would answer yes to this. The same with who type slowly or flub somewhat. Heck, my own writing style is probably a bit aggravating to them, as I tend to split my responses in two-three lines instead of saying it all in one block, making them constantly rewrite what they want to say and emote.

The only stone I want to touch is PvP. Now, I can only talk for surface (I wouldn't be surprised if UD etiquette is completely different), and I also tend to play more neutral, having at most one severe prejudice (like say, my first character was staunch anti-necro Kelemvorite), characters, but the thing is - unless you seek it out, I've not seen moments where it could have happened. My first pair of characters had I think 4 or 5 PvP moments. Two were because either they joined Myon's Sentinels or assisted them as something they saw good in, and so got dragged into large scale battles (one was while out training, one was a big raid). The other three were because people openly invited it, walking on a public road with summoned undead, with situations almost always resolving to following:

"Unsummon the undead and I will overlook the transgression, and guide you through the roads." (okay, one time I wasn't alone, so couldn't offer the last part)
Either "Good luck catching me" (not a good phrase to tell to an AA or a pair of them), or immediate ! from them and come to clash.

Is it one-line RP before PvP? Possibly. Can you really expand on it? Hardly, when the other side sees no fault in that. That problem is much harder to solve. However, that is if I seek PvP. I then had characters who actively avoided conflict with people and only sought collaboration. Guess how many times you get PvP'd then.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But overall? Nah, I'm loving my time here, even though my timetable is going to be a hecking load of mess soon after, making me a bit more sporadic than what I was this week. And don't think this thread has been made first time. Back when I was here, you rarely had times one wasn't up at least every two months. But most often it's some short term dissatisfaction, not looking at the big picture of what Arelith is (heck, one time even I was among dissenting voices).

P.S. (as this is after seeing replies that happened while I was writing this) People also throw out power creep. Sure, maybe PvP armsrace has shifted forward. But PvE was always about knowing what buffs (wards) you can take and how you can abuse either your own build or dungeon mechanics to breeze them. It was already a mindless grind two years ago (unless you were something like a rogue) if you were tutored/knew already how to deal with it. And if not, 2+ people parties can mop a lot of content, always could.

[Irongron]

I'm currently nearly 3 weeks through a month long break, out of the country and generally avoiding all things Arelith, but this topic is one I do feel I want to answer, all be it in a limited way.

I do agree the 'game' aspect of Arelith has been given more focus in recent years, but just with writs, but also far more dungeons and significantly improved mechanics, and many do play Arelith different ways.

Not wanting to write an essay on my phone I'm going to answer with bullet points.

- I'm NOT going to advise DMs to punish people for running, though by all means lead by example. Personally I feel silly running between towns, so horses are a godsend.

- I'd prefer DMs to do small, limited campaigns focused on small groups, where possible making them personal to specific players. Isle wide events are often intrusive, badly paced and disjointed. I don't mind them rarely, but absolutely do not want them to become the norm on Arelith.

-There is no way I'm going to advise DMs to draft strict rules, or purge those that don't meet whatever 'standard' some here are referring to.

-On a similar note saying Arelith is low RP or has RP similar to Warcraft is hyperbolic, and not really worth an answer. I don't recall the last time, as a player, I saw anyone being OOC, and I'm still blown away by the quality of RP I routinely see.

-Sadly OOC cliques really do exist, I have two tips to help with this: Avoid non official Discords and rotate your in game player name between characters.

-Non delivery/patrol writs will soon/eventually become single shot, with no level restriction (but will still not be fulfilled when shepherded by a PC of a much higher level). This was always my intention when I had made enough of them. Rewards will go up, but each will be available only once.

-I'm not happy with most settlement dynamics. Players want agency, but many routinely use it to shut others out.

- No player has more right to be here then anyone else based upon how long they've played here, or hope much they think they've contributed to narrative.

In conclusion I don't think Arelith is in any kind of crisis. Its normal for players to use forums to voice concerns, but there is a tendency for some to just get caught in a negative feedback loop, where Arelith itself becomes a cause of constant frustration. For over a decade I've routinely seen players drop walls PC text about all that's wrong with server and community, but they keep playing all the same. There is no magic bullet that will make this okay; there is no rule, policy, update or mechanical change that will suddenly make those bad feelings go away. I know this sounds harsh, but if Arelith stops being fun, and becomes something which causes anxiety or unhappiness, stop playing - that magic ain't coming back, and we do ourselves and fellow players no favours by hanging around grousing.

Find another server where the magic is fresh. We'll still be here next year or the next. I know it's hard to walk away from anything, not just Arelith, that's become routine, but it is a profound waste of life not to do so. If it ain't fun, just don't do it.

[Ninjimmy]

... I mean, my big takeaway from this is that people need to get better at taking an L and that the prisoner dilemma issue is what sparked this particular thread rather than Arelith's gamification.

Being willing to leave yourself exposed at the risk of not having your character "win" is becoming harder and harder to do.

It's why PvP gets so shotgun and one line, it's why you see Discord Cliques and people banding together, it's just that what they want from their story will (likely) involve needing yours to adapt to it and any given player will do what they can to make sure THEIR story wins out.
This then gets further muddied with how you build a narrative where you don't acknowledge the fact it would be a valid question to ask someone how often they die ("Like twice a week, socially with friends?...") though this bit is just my opinion.

I've even got a Matheus pic to (sort of) illustrate the point

[Kuma]

I know this sounds harsh, but if Arelith stops being fun, and becomes something which causes anxiety or unhappiness, stop playing - that magic ain't coming back, and we do ourselves and fellow players no favours by hanging around grousing.

advice for life to be honest but also for nwn

there has genuinely never been a better time to server-hop or even start your own server

[FallenDabus]

In terms of the late game the problem with Arelith is that it has very few mechanical metrics for player agency outside of the potential to win repetitive PvP encounters until one side had enough OOC. While PvP can certainly be improved considerably, that is a can of worms that deserves its own forum thread. This is also not meant as a knock on players who enjoy that.

What I mean is that Arelith could be significantly improved if we expanded the mechanics and system to account for more things to matter in the late game in addition to PvP Power. For there to be more metrics for players and factions to gain mechanical agency.

The role and influence of the clergy in the Forgotten Realms, that of arcane guilds, that of druidic circles, mercantile guilds and criminal enterprises is not simply the sum of their PvP potential (and in case of Arelith settlement voting power). Right now these all are kind of just "rp flavour" but mechanically pretty much irrelevant. The Arcane Tower or Heartwood Grove could become ghost towns and aside from allies who could use them to help with their PvP Struggles, there is no real mechanical impact.

Players running a thayan enclave should have the ability to gain significant influence and standing in Guld through their arcane and mercantile efforts mattering mechanically. There should be a significant consequence (mechanical loss) to that settlement if they lose the thayan enclave, so that it makes it a more difficult choice if they decide to force them out.

In the abstract, the settlement would lose "arcane" and "mercantile" resources, but be rid of a troublesome element that has been causing a host of other issues.

In my opinion, Arelith has already laid a great foundation for this with all of its great systems and content. If any server could pull this off with a reasonable amount of development work and have the community to support it, it's definitely Arelith.

I began working on a big suggestion late last year for the devs to accomplish this with a few additions to the settlement system and a significant expansion of the faction system. Once the forum opens up I'll finish it and post it.

But not to beat a horse well beyond its death, I very much think it is both doable and opens up the late game to a whole host of new playstyles in addition to PvP power. It would IMO also do the server mountains of good in terms of enabling more roleplay opportunities for great storylines to develop out of. I also think it would foster more of an attitude of cooperation by there being a mechanical benefit to it, even if the characters resent one another.

[LovelyLightningWitch]

In terms of the late game the problem with Arelith is that it has very few mechanical metrics for player agency outside of the potential to win repetitive PvP encounters until one side had enough OOC. While PvP can certainly be improved considerably, that is a can of worms that deserves its own forum thread. This is also not meant as a knock on players who enjoy that.

What I mean is that Arelith could be significantly improved if we expanded the mechanics and system to account for more things to matter in the late game in addition to PvP Power. For there to be more metrics for players and factions to gain mechanical agency.

The role and influence of the clergy in the Forgotten Realms, that of arcane guilds, that of druidic circles, mercantile guilds and criminal enterprises is not simply the sum of their PvP potential (and in case of Arelith settlement voting power). Right now these all are kind of just "rp flavour" but mechanically pretty much irrelevant. The Arcane Tower or Heartwood Grove could become ghost towns and aside from allies who could use them to help with their PvP Struggles, there is no real mechanical impact.

Players running a thayan enclave should have the ability to gain significant influence and standing in Guld through their arcane and mercantile efforts mattering mechanically. There should be a significant consequence (mechanical loss) to that settlement if they lose the thayan enclave, so that it makes it a more difficult choice if they decide to force them out.

In the abstract, the settlement would lose "arcane" and "mercantile" resources, but be rid of a troublesome element that has been causing a host of other issues.

In my opinion, Arelith has already laid a great foundation for this with all of its great systems and content. If any server could pull this off with a reasonable amount of development work and have the community to support it, it's definitely Arelith.

I began working on a big suggestion late last year for the devs to accomplish this with a few additions to the settlement system and a significant expansion of the faction system. Once the forum opens up I'll finish it and post it.

But not to beat a horse well beyond its death, I very much think it is both doable and opens up the late game to a whole host of new playstyles in addition to PvP power. It would IMO also do the server mountains of good in terms of enabling more roleplay opportunities for great storylines to develop out of. I also think it would foster more of an attitude of cooperation by there being a mechanical benefit to it, even if the characters resent one another.

Was there not originally a system where -pray and other -piety costing powers relied on having a powerful church?

I remember reading the wiki, and seeing that deities with only 1-2 worshippers on the server being less powerful. I was informed this is no longer a thing when I asked a "?" player, and I realize it could be complicated (deities with multiple identities like Angharradh or have a patron of their own like Bahamut) - but I wonder why if in some way it could be brought back.

[Nitro]

Was there not originally a system where -pray and other -piety costing powers relied on having a powerful church?

I remember reading the wiki, and seeing that deities with only 1-2 worshippers on the server being less powerful. I was informed this is no longer a thing when I asked a "?" player, and I realize it could be complicated (deities with multiple identities like Angharradh or have a patron of their own like Bahamut) - but I wonder why if in some way it could be brought back.

Yes, but paradoxically it lead to small deities with few worshippers becoming more popular, as you had more direct control over their power, while large deities with many followers had so many clerics constantly draining their power that there was rarely any available.

[Shadowy Reality]

Like many posters before, I have been around for (far too) many years and have most definitely seen the shift in the server.

Running has become widespread, to the point where I feel like I drag people down if I am in a party and I am the only one trying to walk. I have been in parties where people barely talk for an hour or two, or if they do it's nothing actually meaningful, making it feel like we're just there to gain EXP. I fondly remember at some point being dragged into adventures by a certain Cleric of Asmodeus and just having my character's views questioned. Those questions, that attempt at corruption was the focus, not the Frost Giants we were killing.

More and more do I come across characters in the wild that simply run away before I even have time to type anything. More and more do I come across people and the first line their characters utter is: "Are you doing writs?".

Don't get me wrong, I love writs, and I don't think they are to blame for this shift in culture. I honestly think in ages past the RP culture was literally held by a heavy hand. DMs enforced this RP standard and would be harsh (and sometimes very harsh) at things that weren't great. You would lose RPR very quickly for many things, and even levels if you kept at it. These days I feel things are far more lenient.

I also think the server badly needs the rules refreshed. The amount of bad you can do and still be within the rules is terrible. And Arelith needs to decide if Rule 1 is still to be Roleplay or not, and if so, how optional it is.

[DangerDolphin]

Running has become widespread, to the point where I feel like I drag people down if I am in a party and I am the only one trying to walk. I have been in parties where people barely talk for an hour or two, or if they do it's nothing actually meaningful, making it feel like we're just there to gain EXP. I fondly remember at some point being dragged into adventures by a certain Cleric of Asmodeus and just having my character's views questioned. Those questions, that attempt at corruption was the focus, not the Frost Giants we were killing.

I think most people run through writs because they don't want to RP it out the 50th time. If I'm in an energetic mood, I often say stuff in the dungeons and try to throw a twist on it by suggesting theories on why the monsters are here, or what they're really doing is XYZ.

Other times, I have like an hour left to play and we're in a dreary 4 level dungeon with the same enemies every 20 feet. It was fun at first, but now everyone wants to get it over with, then go take a screen break or do some deeper RP in towns.

Another issue is with how busy some areas are. If you stop to slowly RP your way through a Sibayad tomb you're almost certainly going to have a party slam into the back of you, then another into them and so on. I've had some cool encounters running into people in these areas, but also it can get ridiculous with parties of ten down there. People at the back are pretty much just trailing along behind the fighting.

Finally there's the fact that the server keeps expanding. Some of the new areas around Guldorand are vast, and if I walked them to get to the writ area, I would be out of time before I finished doing the dungeon. The long roads wouldn't actually be so bad - except there's also dozens of groups of bears and giants that you run into.

It's pretty much mandatory to haste and run to reach the new areas, then the same all the way back. But mostly I avoid writs around Guldorand now. I think this is one reason why Sibayad is so much more popular: The dungeons are right next to the town.

[Flower Power]

I remember when Ritz Dizonne lost his 30 RPR because he ran from the Arcane Tower to Bendir a single time, because he was in a hurry IRL and needed to log off to deal with some stuff soon.

The death of the "YOU MUST WALK" mentality was a good thing.

[Kuma]

I remember when Ritz Dizonne lost his 30 RPR because he ran from the Arcane Tower to Bendir a single time, because he was in a hurry IRL and needed to log off to deal with some stuff soon.

The death of the "YOU MUST WALK" mentality was a good thing.

so was the death of ritz dizonne

[LovelyLightningWitch]

More and more do I come across characters in the wild that simply run away before I even have time to type anything. More and more do I come across people and the first line their characters utter is: "Are you doing writs?".

On this, an important thing to keep in mind might be PvP aversion.

My duo keeps portal lens on ourselves, and we will twist them at sign of someone else in the area due to fear that they're a drow or some other faction that would attack characters as ours on sight. It's better to play it safe, from both an IC and OOC perspective.

Another issue is with how busy some areas are. If you stop to slowly RP your way through a Sibayad tomb you're almost certainly going to have a party slam into the back of you, then another into them and so on. I've had some cool encounters running into people in these areas, but also it can get ridiculous with parties of ten down there. People at the back are pretty much just trailing along behind the fighting.

Been playing my character since Guldorand's big release (free reward to be able to play a noble from evermeet? heck yeah!)

Granted, I avoided Sibayad as it did not make much sense alignment-wise to linger in that area considering slaves and whatnot. Instead, my duo and I (A wizard a swash/LM) operated out of Bendir.

Orc cave near the tradeway with the lich - never had issues with running into anyone there forcing us to hurry.

Margoth/Morgoth the Black had nothing forcing us to rush, beyond that one time I had to backtrack a little to kill a mob due to server crash messing with my kill count for the writ and on returning, I found a balor attacking my partner. I've no idea where that balor came from or what the context was as we never saw it ever again (not that we returned often afterwards).

Gnoll warcamp had likewise been a "chill" experience allowing us to focus on RP and trying to do religious stuff to try and counteract Yeenoghu. The one time the slow-paced, experience (or sensation is a better word to differentiate from xp)/immersion-focused adventure was broken was when we brought a third along who kept running forward, and consequently dying.

Shades in the Ruins/spider cave - Again, absolutely no issues with having players slam into us and forcing us to hurry. One time we ran into a dwarf and he was a great sport and matched us in pace.

Crystal caves/related writs - Echoing the above.

I think we stayed in Bendir from 12 to 20, arriving at 12 out of Skaljard.

From 20-24, we dealt with Minmir giants, orcs and giants in skull crags, vampires and viper monks in skull crags and as our final combat writ: Eternal Battlefield + lich.

After we lost our ability to take writs, we stuck to hunting on the Eternal Battlefield and taking care of vampires. These were the areas that made sense to return to due to their lore (Eternal Battlefield spawning ICly endless undead, vampires taking thralls and stuff to replenish).

Same experience all over: Slow paced, immersion-focused adventures that were given ample IC reason to go to places rather than relying in pseudo-IC "Where do I go train" or asking on discord for routes.

Not once did writs feel OOC, in fact: they enhanced IC as I said before, and said above. Not once were we forced to run and dash - combat is hard enough to be interesting in a duo (choosing targets carefully to avoid our weaknesses being exploited), but not so much as to demand permahaste (and other spells I jokingly call "RP killers: short-lasting high impact that demand running to make use of) outside of the boss room or sudden oversized spawns.



PvE-wise, my only wish is that bounty heads were replaced with "generic trophy" or something similar, as certain character types/faiths/cultures are not really allowed to mutiliate the dead and take their heads. So far I've tried RPing such as taking holy symbols or heraldric tabards or some other non-body part as the gold income is very much needed but I'm not entirely sure if I'm breaking rules by doing that or not.

Otherwise, I'll echo again: Arelith has the best PvE to facilitate an Experience/Sensation driven adventure over one driven purely by desire for mechanical/financial gains.

Any issues presented with the writ system, I feel, are in essence DESPITE the writ system, not because.

As for why despite? I don't know. Maybe I play in an ineffective way - after all, Guld came out on Jan 12 and I've only just hit level 28, and my duo partner level 27.

Maybe I play in a sheltered way, sticking with my partner and occasionally picking up people to adventure with us if we are compatible in terms of faith/race and behaviour.

Finally there's the fact that the server keeps expanding. Some of the new areas around Guldorand are vast, and if I walked them to get to the writ area, I would be out of time before I finished doing the dungeon. The long roads wouldn't actually be so bad - except there's also dozens of groups of bears and giants that you run into.

Even with my partner and I's limited playtime, we never had issues with walking to areas. (4 hours a week or so)

Spawn in Guldorand, get jobs from the writ agent, take SoulHaven portal to Logging camp. Take out the orcs and giants, lens out to Nexus Falls, rest and portal to soulhaven and sell in Guld or Elven District. Whole dungeon was spent walking except for when closing distance with spawns, getting there was spent walking and it all fit into our weekly 3-4 hours of playtime with room to spare to catch up on news on the boards, and if there's people online in either Myon or Guld: interact with the locals.

But again, we're only level 27/28 after 7 months of playing the same characters.

[Shadowy Reality]

Other times, I have like an hour left to play and we're in a dreary 4 level dungeon with the same enemies every 20 feet. It was fun at first, but now everyone wants to get it over with, then go take a screen break or do some deeper RP in towns.

Another issue is with how busy some areas are. If you stop to slowly RP your way through a Sibayad tomb you're almost certainly going to have a party slam into the back of you, then another into them and so on. I've had some cool encounters running into people in these areas, but also it can get ridiculous with parties of ten down there. People at the back are pretty much just trailing along behind the fighting.

This is the part that boggles me. You can roleplay and adventure, you don't get deeper RP in towns. Adventuring is a great way to know other PCs, what they are doing, their dreams, their fears, views on the world, and same for your own character. This is hard if you are dashing from one spawn to another without a moment to type but strategic pauses and some walking will help with that.

Another party came in the area? Have them join you, or make them leave, through force if that's what your character would do. Don't treat it like a game where you must be faster, efficient or lose on the exp, this is the crux of the issue. Never trade exp for roleplay.

[FallenDabus]

TLTR; Basically, the sailing system provides a great place for people who want to emphasize group and adventure roleplay and PvE, with the occasional PVP encounter. It is a great example of what can be done mechanically and content wise to support different playstyles in a meaningful and natural manner.

I feel like it is a great template of how to think about improving the server as a whole.

--

Personally, I strongly favour heavy roleplay and adventure-themed PvE, with the occasional intense and story defining conflict that puts my character through a mind grinder and forces either character development or a conclusion. If that comes with the occasional meaningful PvP, win or lose, I absolutely love it.

A couple of months ago I was done with Arelith. I played two characters I enjoyed immensely early on, and then the settlement centric late-game quickly felt repetitive and stale to me. So while I was winding down the story of my character to retire her, I began eyeing another server with a friend. We for some reason decided we'll give Sencliff a go, as we had both been interested for a while. A week later the sailing update hit, and we stuck around.

So as an example of mechanics and system providing meaningful content for different playstyles, the sailing system has been the best experience I have had on Arelith thus far and is the reason why I am still playing on Arelith. It demonstrates how additional mechanics can cater to different playstyles to foster incredibly immersive roleplay for those who seek it. It does not hit all my playstyle preferences, but it is so refreshing that there is a part of Arelith that comes pretty close to it. I am so thankful to the devs for having created this option.

The crew component is absolutely fantastic. It is more rewarding if you invest a bit in its mechanics. It heavily encourages you to be inclusive and to experience the content in a group. The same perfectly built and geared PvP/PvE builds are not optimal for it, while still being incredibly useful to have along. It has a great balance of travelling from different mini-dungeons or encountering PvE boarding parties, as well as giving a group time to breathe in between. "Roleplay" and "hunting" happen naturally at the same time.

If you just want to grind xp silently with others, it is not going to be as rewarding due to those long silences in between. But the great thing is it does not have to, as all the Arelith content is still around. It added to the server, instead of taking away something in favor of something else.

With a Sencliff start, new characters can be immediately included in these voyages as well. The sense of "RP starts at 30" does not exist there. New players can pick up pirate writs (that can be done with high levels in the party) and gain sailing XP on the trip. Something that is not more optimal or replaces traditional hunting and writ work, but supplements it with a great new option.

With the crew I am a part of, we take "greenies" (new characters who just got pirate ink) out to sea as soon as we see them. Integrating them in the Sencliff RP immediately. Their stories begin from Day 1 at Sencliff, and by level 30 there have been a lot of shared stories. Older players show them the ropes of how it all works while they get to sail the ship, and so far everyone seems to absolutely love the experience. I got tons of feedback of folks telling me it was so nice to play their characters right from the start and not to feel like they have to level quickly in order to get involved.

Sailing on Arelith almost feels like you have the option to return to Skal with the people you used to adventure with while at sea for a bit of quiet, and once at port you return to the Arelith isle with all its crazy, exciting and loud things. Which thematically fits so well with the idea of sailing out to sea and leaving Arelith behind for a little while.

Sailing is not going to be for everyone, and I am sure some would prefer it to work like the rest of the PvE experience on Arelith. But that is kind of the point and why it is so damn good. It introduces a new option to it and its a different spin that caters to a different part of the community.

[The GrumpyCat]

Other times, I have like an hour left to play and we're in a dreary 4 level dungeon with the same enemies every 20 feet. It was fun at first, but now everyone wants to get it over with, then go take a screen break or do some deeper RP in towns.

Another issue is with how busy some areas are. If you stop to slowly RP your way through a Sibayad tomb you're almost certainly going to have a party slam into the back of you, then another into them and so on. I've had some cool encounters running into people in these areas, but also it can get ridiculous with parties of ten down there. People at the back are pretty much just trailing along behind the fighting.

This is the part that boggles me. You can roleplay and adventure, you don't get deeper RP in towns. Adventuring is a great way to know other PCs, what they are doing, their dreams, their fears, views on the world, and same for your own character. This is hard if you are dashing from one spawn to another without a moment to type but strategic pauses and some walking will help with that.

Another party came in the area? Have them join you, or make them leave, through force if that's what your character would do. Don't treat it like a game where you must be faster, efficient or lose on the exp, this is the crux of the issue. Never trade exp for roleplay.

This is something I pretty much always do! And something as DMs we should encourage when we see for sure!

That said I am known to run sometimes. I don't have a whole tonne of time to play so sometimes I want to move things along a little quicker. *shrug* But I personaly adore rp during adventures.