Arelith

Edens_Fall wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:25 pm

...settlements can blame the NPC guards lack of skill or corruption at the constant escapes.

I'd be all for a universal "prison island" where monsters and people both are, a place that would take several RL days to escape from even for the most min-maxed PC, based solely on the fact that it sounds like a lot of fun. However, let's not get rose-tinted glasses. This is Arelith, after all. As soon as players figure out the meta of escaping and share the information around, settlement leaders will receive flack for sending criminals there. "How could you send Doomfist Murderface to Prison Island? Everyone knows the guards are incompetent and it's easy to escape there, and now he's back out on the streets! You're an irresponsible leader! Rabble rabble rabble!"

Maybe there's some clever lore/module design that could be done by devs to preemptively give reasonable justifications for why settlement leaders keep sending criminals to a place where criminals regularly escape from. If Prison Island is being considered at all, of course (which I kind of hope it is, it sounds fun!).

Not to mention mixing UDers and Surfacers will likely just end up in another gank fest. It's why people can't have nice things I guess.

I'm absolutely biased for prison island, just because I love Gothic 1.

But the solution is simple. Just make it fun. Some ideas that come to mind, but I have no idea that would be technically possible...

• De-level any prison island player down to level 3. Strip them of all their equipment(that they get back upon being released.)

• In order to leave prison island, they have to level to 20 or so, as well as donate a certain amount of gold/resources(more on this below).

• Introduce a few little dungeons to incorporate this, as well as a mini settlement.

• Heavily police pvp. Anyone who starts a fight gets "punished" and sent back down to level 3. (Or some other penalty!)

• Characters sent to prison island have to pay a percentage tax on all the gold/resources they acquire there, with that going back to the settlement that sent them there. (Incentivizing corrupt evil settlements to send all manner of criminals.)

• Once the character is at the level cap + resource/gold cap, they've "earned" their freedom, and can leave and receive their former equipment and level. Any excess items gained from prison island are turned into gold(with a limit, maybe). Also give the option to just stay.

• Add potential options for riots/break outs.

In the same way that the UD slavery can be sort of a scenery and environment refresher for good characters, I think something like this would be really appealing for evil characters. You could really nail down the oppressive environment that treats monsters and criminals like they are.

I could also see mafias/gangs forming within, creating a sort of sub culture. I know there has been a lot of players that are fans of Skal's level locked concept, so doing something similar I think is pretty interesting.

Now this is all speculating, of course. This would require significant module overhaul, dev time, as well as a direction that maybe the staff aren't interested in.

Keep in mind that most mechancial penalties are always going to be 'opt in' or - if they're not, then they will be severely limited and policed.

Many of the excellent suggestions also don’t need to be mechanically enforced. You are only limited by your imagination. Try and use fixtures in areas that exist to set up something new, or you can push IC for law changes that might suit your characters objectives if they’re seeking to start up some prison colony RP.

These things are a lot more fun when they come about naturally in game and tend to have much more follow up from other characters when it is clear that a player is putting in thought and effort into making the experience an engaging one.

It’s similar to why the slave system doesn’t need to exist because you can just RP it all anyway.

I find a lot of times when you 'RP' an effect on you, be it through a RP'd curse, ailment, or some use of fixture there are a large subset of players unwilling to engage in these stories because of logic like: It's an ooc choice to be affected by a curse, be captured, be enslaved, be tortured, lose a limb etc. etc. They also tend to disengage if they can't resolve it in 5 minutes. This is simply a big mindset issue I find that only seems to grow. It fits in the same category as ooc shaming/blaming people for choosing to participate in capture RP.

While I 100% agree that there are a ton of viable RP options to do interesting things and tell interesting stories around capture and the after effects of it, not mechanically enforcing them often leads to people actively pushing the story away, shoving it under a rug, not wanting to deal with it etc. I'm not saying that mechanically enforcing these things is the only solution mind you, I'll happily continue to RP these things both as a recipient and someone who starts these sorts of things. But the mindset and OOC shaming etc is a real issue that makes people hesitant overall to accept these sorts of things in addition to them being unwilling to 'take a loss'.

A balance between mechanics and RP options or RP options supported by mechanics, could help a lot. If not mechanics, then a simple culture shift in this.

a story is not about
winning or losing
victory or defeat
success or failure

a story is about
the story
the characters
the interactions
the bad and the good
the sufferings and the glories

I feel like this is just a broken record at this point but I guess not everyone agrees/cares/wants to follow a narrative that isn't their own design

I agree. Hence it's in ' ' since it's how many people still feel. Like I said, it would need a culture shift. I do really like a lot of the ideas given so far and have been researching other ideas for what 'good' guys might be able to do other than just executing (even if sometimes that's unavoidable).

All I can say after reading some of these ideas is I think I'd have a blast if Dib got taken prisoner. Well. He's a legit monster race, moreso than even the Drow so...realistically the options would be more limited. That being said we're all in for a story and "lol goblin just kill it" makes for a pithy collaborative story. (Not that it isn't the appropriate response in many, many circumstances). But for a capture situation, I think we can bend realism a little bit in a setting where our characters can shape reality with magic.

The main gripe I have is the last few capture sessions I've seen have largely been "we're going to argue via messenger over how much you're worth so you just sit there, okay?" To be entirely fair, I'm happy to see that isn't the case with our current dwarf slave.

That's boring, and honestly disappointing to see becoming the default. Give them something to do in the meantime. Let the haggling take place over a few days instead of hours. I had a blast when Juniper had been captured (again) and made to give a language lesson in three languages, spar with people in the Table manor basement, get Fastball Specialed by Gekkido, and then fight in the slave pit and lose. It involved a huge crowd of people, and more than just Juniper or her player "benefitted" from it. it was just fun. Especially that fastball, good lord that was amazing.

Honestly, a long-term prisoner collar, basically a mirror of the slave collar without it being "slavery", would help for surface punishment. Prisoner caller, all that jazz. Just give a set time duration that costs gold to reup the duration. Ownership via settlement, not player. Alot of room for RP with that, with some mechanical support, would go a ways of creating interesting story lines.

BurntGnome wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:50 pm

Honestly, a long-term prisoner collar, basically a mirror of the slave collar without it being "slavery", would help for surface punishment. Prisoner caller, all that jazz. Just give a set time duration that costs gold to reup the duration. Ownership via settlement, not player. Alot of room for RP with that, with some mechanical support, would go a ways of creating interesting story lines.

Prisoner Shackles: forces alwayswalk, can make the PC be retrieved, can be undone the same way manacles can be, for maybe a higher cost.

D4wN wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:11 pm

Not to mention mixing UDers and Surfacers will likely just end up in another gank fest. It's why people can't have nice things I guess.

I thought on this and wonder why it does always seem to lean towards such an ending. My only guess is that's the current culture of the player base, reinforced by the servers setting. Unfortunately, unless that changes anyone trying to comingle monsters and surfacers outside of Andunor will get shutdown.

I'm not honestly sure how to go about it, but you would need a neutral location where both could interact to pull it off, like a prison island where the desire for both side to escape allows for cooperation between enemies. Something along those lines. Until then RP options for alot of interactions will remain limited to torture followed by killing.

That's my thoughts anyway.

Aradin wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:54 pm

Edens_Fall wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:25 pm

...settlements can blame the NPC guards lack of skill or corruption at the constant escapes.

I'd be all for a universal "prison island" where monsters and people both are, a place that would take several RL days to escape from even for the most min-maxed PC, based solely on the fact that it sounds like a lot of fun. However, let's not get rose-tinted glasses. This is Arelith, after all. As soon as players figure out the meta of escaping and share the information around, settlement leaders will receive flack for sending criminals there. "How could you send Doomfist Murderface to Prison Island? Everyone knows the guards are incompetent and it's easy to escape there, and now he's back out on the streets! You're an irresponsible leader! Rabble rabble rabble!"

Maybe there's some clever lore/module design that could be done by devs to preemptively give reasonable justifications for why settlement leaders keep sending criminals to a place where criminals regularly escape from. If Prison Island is being considered at all, of course (which I kind of hope it is, it sounds fun!).

Well said as ever. Also . . .

"Rabble, rabble, rabble!"

D4wN wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:11 pm

Not to mention mixing UDers and Surfacers will likely just end up in another gank fest. It's why people can't have nice things I guess.

Subdual only zone, guard patrols, if you cause trouble in sight of a guard, both parties get beaten by the guards. Soft lockdown on the immediate area's doors while the guards are responding to a fight. General punishment for everyone, maybe limitations on resources, increased guard patrols, etc.

I actually love the idea of a prison island.
It sounds cool.

I don't know if i'd be up for potentially losing all my gear and levels though, as i think such a functionality would be... A risky one (you know, could bug out) but otherwise, cool idea. Maybe instead of that it could operate on some sort of a writ system? They'd be repeatable, if one wanted to stay, and you'd have to do all of them in order to get out? Or at least, an X amount.

They don't have to be combat oriented, so difficulty of mobs doesn't have to matter that much.

But then, maybe delevelling/de-gearing inmates would be the right idea there. Even setting-wise it makes little sense to not try to subdue the power of more magically inclined (or just more powerful) inmates on such an island.

I have dev-side proposed a prison ship for much the same purpose as the prison island suggestions, operated by the Tricrown Conglomerate (same guys who do the settlement bid stuff) on behalf of all surface settlements. It got good feedback, so maybe in time.

Prison ship sounds great as well in my opinion.

So, I am well down for this personally. I think a prison ship/island/whatever is a really cool idea and would absolutly be up for having fun on it, both as a Dm and as a player.

But I am doing to say it now, - I can also very much see this having the same issues that the Slave system currently has, so we should prepare ourselves for that.

Prison ship sounds really interesting!

The GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:54 am

So, I am well down for this personally. I think a prison ship/island/whatever is a really cool idea and would absolutly be up for having fun on it, both as a Dm and as a player.

But I am doing to say it now, - I can also very much see this having the same issues that the Slave system currently has, so we should prepare ourselves for that.

I'm sure you can find volunteers to help think through what this could look like in a working group of passionate individuals.

We spoke of prison islands or ships, but I just thought of an often-overlooked location. Other planes. A prison sort of like Spellhold or perhaps a location on the elemental planes would work rather well and maybe be easier to access via portals etc.

Edens_Fall wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:38 pm

We spoke of prison islands or ships, but I just thought of an often-overlooked location. Other planes. A prison sort of like Spellhold or perhaps a location on the elemental planes would work rather well and maybe be easier to access via portals etc.

The plane of earth. Tunnel all you want, you're not getting out.

I want to play that one ancient weirdo in the corner that has been in prison far too long.

Hazard wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:37 pm

I want to play that one ancient weirdo in the corner that has been in prison far too long.

LOL, you already do play an ancient weirdo

D4wN wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:23 am

Hazard wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:37 pm

I want to play that one ancient weirdo in the corner that has been in prison far too long.

LOL, you already do play an ancient weirdo

(: