Balance of artifacts and new crafting items

[nobs3]

I was/am a bit skeptical about artefacts. Every time I read about them or hear characters searching for very special one (like armors +4 +4ability +xy) I wonder if those artifacts support already overpowered characters that “farm” special chests.
Now the new very powerful craftable items might balance it out a bit. (Also they support the search for many different ingredients, which might lead to rp.)
After having a look on many of the new craftable items my question is: Are they well balanced regarding classes and races?
I find very useful items for many classes and some races (e.g. elves, good/evil dwarfs, kobolds…) but not for all races; and sometimes for classes that I have seen as already very powerful.
E.g. supporting lawful good paladins sounds like a good support of this important rp side; the core of the army of the good.
But helping (totem) druid / monk builds to get even more AC? Helping clerics with more exclusive gear? I am not sure.
Maybe I just need a signal: “Be assured we keep balance in mind here.”

[Cortex]

Some artefacts are inherently broken, there is no balancing around them.

Maybe someday they are fixed.

[nobs3]

What about the new craftable items? (like armors, crowns, staffs, cloaks etc.)

[Cortex]

They were all designed with great care in order not to break anything.

[nobs3]

That is what I wanted to hear

Just wondered about the Second Skin (and found nothing for goblins only)

[Lorkas]

There is a flail under carpentry that's goblins-only, I believe.

[TimeAdept]

Anytime you put something into the hands of pure RNG without specifically prescribed limits, the miniscule chance for that absolutely bonkers combination is always going to be there. For every longsword that's +4, +5 vampiric regen, there's 8 tower shields that are gnome only.

[JediMindTrix]

there's 8 tower shields that are gnome only.

I think you mean Monk Only

[Dreams]

I'd like to see a miniature Gonne for goblins only.

On use:
- Hit self regardless of target.
- 50% chance of double -delete_character macro.

[Ambigue]

For every longsword that's +4, +5 vampiric regen, there's 8 tower shields that are gnome only.

I suspect that, mathematically, there are far more mechanically useless or worse-than-you-can-enchant-yourself combinations of attributes and gear than there are genuinely useful or interesting ones.

Maybe removing racial restrictions from the attribute matrix would get rid of the sillier combinations. Getting rid of class restrictions would push that further but wouldn't really be necessary.

[yellowcateyes]

One of my characters owns +4 AC +2 stat +2 Unisave Boots. That's broken.

It really doesn't matter that many artifacts are, by virtue of randomization, utterly useless. Those that are valuable skew the balance of things.

[Baron Saturday]

One of my characters owns +4 AC +2 stat +2 Unisave Boots. That's broken.

It really doesn't matter that many artifacts are, by virtue of randomization, utterly useless. Those that are valuable skew the balance of things.

Would putting a value cap on artefacts help? Like when their properties are being rolled up, it won't add any more when the item is already worth more than X?

[TimeAdept]

Inherently destructive if you don't remove artifacts that already exist with those power, but I think I'm probably one ofthe most "anti grandfathering" people around for things.

[Dorkas]

I both love and hate the artifact system, but more because of the players. There's something very exciting when you go out and actually for once find something, especially if it's not 100% useless. The issue is that it rewards people who abuse/farm the hell out of them. If you look ig right now you can find a few shops that have clearly done just that. Meanwhile plenty of others might only go to an artifact dungeon once a month or less, and more often then not, find a chest full of air.

I don't want them to be removed and punish everyone, I like the idea of these (sometimes) better items and that can't be crafted and only found in super rare places, but someway to prevent the same people from hoarding them over and over would make them better for everyone.

[flower]

We visited artefact places many times.

2/3 of time it was empty
1/3 of timei t was a useless item (small shield with +2 craft armour?)


In 4 months or more we found only two worth items. Fullplatemail with +4 constitution, and gloves with +2 str / +1 constitution.

Most of the good items are these hoarded over years already now. I was myself at first not in good relationship to artefacts, but now I can say it matters not for me. It just makes me quirk my eye brow how often do people complain that someone out there has a better item and alike. When there are even chances for everyone to reach it.

I know what shops you speak of. I talked with friend about it ( in obvious frustration of our effortless attempts) and he told me these shops are filled with items found in past two years.

[Giftstoff]

I make sure every artefact I have is deleted with my characters. For the good of the tribe. Even some +4 ac, +4 uni cloth armor. Mmm.

Also remove all +4 and +3 items and replace them with +2 tops. Make them more likely to drop but reduce the rediculous +4 ac +4 uni save tripe thats only making the power creep worse.

[Swords to Rust]

I make sure every artefact I have is deleted with my characters. For the good of the tribe. Even some +4 ac, +4 uni cloth armor. Mmm.

Also remove all +4 and +3 items and replace them with +2 tops. Make them more likely to drop but reduce the rediculous +4 ac +4 uni save tripe thats only making the power creep worse.

Higher drop rates but less game breaking artifacts would be great for non artifact farmers. I think the script for artifact properties should have limits to prevent the most OP of items. For instance, items with +4 AC should maybe have at most one other property, and ability and save boosts should be capped at +2, which is still more than you can get on enchanted gear.

Maybe also similar to the magical item drops have an increasing drop chance for characters who haven't found any artifacts lately.

[IIllII]

I've been asked many times in tells how to find good artefacts. Here's what you do.

Step 1. Uninstall real life.
Step 2. Raid all known dungeons with artefacts. Doable under 2 hours with a party of four. No friends? Tough luck.
Step 3. Repeat until you get your desired artefact.

Surprising no one, no lifers gets the best items. This is true to any game. Also, because of the new craftable items, artefacts are slowly being phased out. They're nice to have but not really necessary.
Freedom and fear immune items also exist in the standard, NON artefact loot matrix.

PS.
+4 AC items with uni saves aren't overpowered at all. The new craftables rivals these artefacts and you don't need to gouge your eyes out to find one. But I won't deny that there are absurd artefacts out there, but none are listed above.

[Nitro]

Step 1. Uninstall real life.
Step 2. Raid all known dungeons with artefacts. Doable under 2 hours with a party of four. No friends? Tough luck.
Step 3. Repeat until you get your desired artefact.

You forgot step 4. Cry uncontrollably as you get either empty chests or useless "gnome only" artefacts for a month straight to the point where going to loot empty boxes becomes an ingame meme.

[yellowcateyes]

Surprising no one, no lifers gets the best items. This is true to any game. Also, because of the new craftable items, artefacts are slowly being phased out.

Freedom and fear immune items also exist in the standard, NON artefact loot matrix.

Artifact chances being what they are, grinding is no guarantee of getting the best items. You can get a broken item on the first try. You can find nothing useful after 200 attempts. I've opened a grand total of three.

And the new craftable items in no way "phase out" the most useful artifacts. None of the new craftables remotely come close to top-tier artifact items, which are still BIS. And there's a big difference from an item that has only Freedom and Fear-Immunity (with some negatives, even), and artifacts that include those properties alongside hefty bonuses.

PS.
+4 AC items with uni saves aren't overpowered at all. The new craftables rivals these artefacts

Feel free to point out the craftable boot recipe that rivals +4 Dodge AC, +2 stat, +2 unisave.

The new craftable items can have high AC values, but they've been balanced around item archetypes that only rival or provide alternative paths to previous top tier craftables. Northman's armor, for example, provides high +AC on a breastplate. Getting the +4 AC roll on, say, boots or a ring is a flat out upgrade to anything else found in-game.

[IIllII]

The boots you found is obviously strong. I'm not contesting that. Artefacts like that won't compare to the craftables. +4 dodge AC and the other enchantment it provides are definitely strong, but I can't consider it broken. It's a good item that can be considered as an "artefact". It's a great find. Having said that..
..what would be broken AND overpowered is a pair of boots with +8 AC (which does exist), because enchantments in artefacts can duplicate. I don't think Scholar meant that to happen.

And to clarify what I meant by the new craftables phasing out the artefacts, these new items provide more than the usual +2 stat +4 skill gear most characters use. Before, you had to look for an artefact if you wanted a +2 int piece to max your int mod. Now you can just grab one of the new staves or that +2 int helmet you can find in armor chests.

[Commie]

Step 1. Uninstall real life.
Step 2. Raid all known dungeons with artefacts. Doable under 2 hours with a party of four. No friends? Tough luck.
Step 3. Repeat until you get your desired artefact.

You forgot step 4. Cry uncontrollably as you get either empty chests or useless "gnome only" artefacts for a month straight.

Full plate
Wizard only
Gnome only
-2 uni saves
+6 ac vs goblins
+2 charisma

[gilescorey]

Full plate
Wizard only
Gnome only
-2 uni saves
+6 ac vs goblins
+2 charisma

Artefacts don't spawn with any penalties, also they can only have up to 4 properties.

[Commie]

shows what i know!

[Cerk Evermoore]

Farming artifacts is fun but it's really hard without the proper group set up. I can think of a couple people who I think knock out a lot of the chests every reset. So you gotta reach the chests before them too which can be a struggle.