Survival

[Beneidalus]

For what it's worth, despite my grip about -pray, I wanted to put in a good word for the food/rest/water system. I enjoy it as an immersive facet of role-play, right up there with negative effects for desert heat and tundra cold. Player vs. Environment

Hell, it might even be cool to see spells that zap people's thirst/hunger as a viable form of combat, lol.

[Nitro]

When I first joined the server I really liked it, but that's because I thought it was a lot deeper than it is. Seeing my first little server message of it being cold so I should keep my self covered and bring plenty of supplies made me think of survivorman out in the forest scrounging off the land.

But then I found out food/water costs 1-3 gold at the nearest barkeep, and most people carry dozens if not hundreds of them at all times.

That kind of shattered the illusion for me and made me realize it's not a very immersive or interactive system, it's just... there. The only reason you'll ever run out of any of the values is that you forgot to stock up on one of the incredibly cheap goods, and it isn't like there's any bonus for keeping yourself topped off at 100% at any given time, so you might as well let if fall down to 0% before gorging back up to 100% to ignore the system for as long as possible.

Except for that hairy bugbear tiredness. The system that penalizes casters for being well rested and rewards them for being zombies hovering close to 0% at all times so they can always rest up to prepare more spells. If there's anything about the states I have a true gripe with it's tiredness, it'd be much better if that system was disconnected entirely from when you're allowed to sleep, and instead just putting rest on a cooldown timer to prevent spamming.

[Beneidalus]

That's a good point, actually. My characters just typically don't buy food, and instead pick it up from corpses or what not.

Totally gonna derail now, but that actually brings to mind an entirely different observation. Gold. I feel like I get so much gold and nothing to do with it. Just hording gold for nothing.

Maybe food stuffs could be made more expensive.

[WanderingPoet]

You're more than welcome to pay 100 gold per pancake at the Nomad, I won't complain about a tip!

That said though, I've always found the food/thirst/rest meters to be rather immersion /breaking/. I realize that when I sit through a 2, 3, 4 hour long RP session that literal days are flowing past but... They kind of aren't? When you're inside a house or cave or what have you RPing, days can pass by simply because people only type so fast - to have to go for a quick nap to bring your rest up or chug another 5 things of coffee has always felt weird. I've never needed to go for a quick 30 second nap mid conversation before! I mean, I realize that the time system is 6 minutes = 1 IG hour, but for most purposes that doesn't matter when conversing, it isn't as if a couple people literally say 12 things in an hour and stand there waiting around for the other 55 minutes - so why do we dehydrate/starve/pass out when we talk IG for an hour?

I'd like to see them done away with - hunger and thirst don't make people go to an inn or foraging for food because people just carry rations with them and gobble them up when they get low. Tiredness only serves to be a rest-throttle which while I can understand the desire it severely hinders low level casters while doing little at high level (after all, in dungeons you can't really rest too often anyways) and makes all casters alcoholics.

One thing suggested was to make rest on a timer - one thing I've seen work well before is blocking resting in an area and then having 'check points' where you can rest, little safe havens. That can be a good way to limit resting while not gimping anyone in particular.

[Cybernet21]

I agree that food and thirst systems should be changed,but the rest system is already good

[JediMindTrix]

rest/sobriety are necessary, food/water are annoyances.

EDIT: to improve, maybe give temporary benefits for being "well fed" or resting in an inn

[Xerah]

The other option would be to keep the system but only have it active in specific areas through the [area tag system]. For example, the Lost Desert. So, you'd need to stock up on supplies before going to certain places.

[If Valor Were Inches]

I like the rest system as it is, and I like the food and water system ultimately too, because they add minor RP things. It's nice not to pretend that I'm hungry or thirsty, and nice to have actual things to consume. The system is probably more appealing for those who make everything they need to survive rather than buy it, cooking their own food and drinking water from natural sources. But if you're just on and chatting, then the system doesn't really support it as much because the speed of time doesn't sync perfectly.

Changing the speed of hours though directly effects spells and RPB per hour xp, and I think the xp tick right now is perfect. I enjoy the time length as well as it is. I also kind of find the tired spellcaster fitting, always over-working. At least for wizards. I'd hate to see any of them go.

What would be neat but impossible due to customization is if all those messages about clothing would act more than just suggestions, penalties like lower cold resistance for summer clothes in harsh winter, and vice versa. Or maybe have it as a by product of being in certain areas, colder areas reducing cold resistance, hotter areas reducing fire resistance.

[Improv]

The other option would be to keep the system but only have it active in specific areas through the [area tag system]. For example, the Lost Desert. So, you'd need to stock up on supplies before going to certain places.

I would greatly prefer this. Even if it started up every time you left the city, even if it was amplified when in certain stressful areas.

But it's a nuisance during long meetings, crafting sessions, lectures and hang-out RP in city centers. I get that some people don't mind it, but I'd be surprised if sudden drooping from thirst during long RP sessions was missed if it was gone.

[JediMindTrix]

The other option would be to keep the system but only have it active in specific areas through the [area tag system]. For example, the Lost Desert. So, you'd need to stock up on supplies before going to certain places.

really good suggestion. but the area's have to be worth going too and likely the penalties for not stocking up would have to be high or it'd fall flat

[Dreams]

When I first joined the server, I thought Food/Drink was a great idea and loved what it brought to RP. After playing here a nice long while now, I've come to think of it as an absolute annoyance. It doesn't really help me RP, it's just another thing I have to mechanically worry about.

[Griefmaker]

I would like to see food and thirst meters only go down in the "wilderness".

So any settlements, inns, houses, rooms, gathering places (like the Grove/Campsite/other places which are conducive to "rest areas") where food or water might be regularly available and easily accessed will not negatively affect the food/thirst meters.

In fact, it would be even nicer if those places raised it upon entering...considering the first thing most would do after coming in off the road would be eat and drink.

[ProbablyAMage]

That said though, I've always found the food/thirst/rest meters to be rather immersion /breaking/. I realize that when I sit through a 2, 3, 4 hour long RP session that literal days are flowing past but... They kind of aren't? When you're inside a house or cave or what have you RPing, days can pass by simply because people only type so fast - to have to go for a quick nap to bring your rest up or chug another 5 things of coffee has always felt weird.

Oh envy. It could be worse. My Drow coffee addict recently spent four thousand gold to buy a bit of the caw-fee, and wouldn't dream of chugging the precious, precious things.

On a serious note, I would honestly just prefer the food/drink gone, and an option to turn the rest decrease off. That way you could self manage while you're in a settlement and the team wouldn't have to adjust every last area. A flat rest timer is a bit annoying simply because it's not unknown to make a mistake when prepping spells as a caster. Some are mild annoyances, but if you forget those Mind Blanks when tackling the Illithids it's pretty make or break. Current rest options with a toggle would still let you get up to high rest as your 'punishment' for the mistake, which is fine since it allows for mistakes, just not constant ones.

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

Personal opinion and idle brainstorm-cloud incoming.

In my opinion, where hunger/thirst ever really have the most interesting or immersive impact is in deprivation scenarios. Eating/drinking in Most scenarios is just a little note of distracting mundanity that takes you out of the 'action.' I think it's assumed that yes, if you have food and water you're going to feed and water yourself.

Needing to provide food and water for prisoners, or knowing there's a real threat of death by dehydration in the Sibayad desert is where the system adds to the atmosphere and <buzzword>immersion.</buzzword>

Having a -toggle where your character automatically, invisibly consumes food and drink items in your inventory to keep you above certain thresholds (with feedback text) would spare the most annoying part of hunger/thirst without sacrificing the only time they matter: when you're starving/dehydrated.

For those who like to save certain food items for roleplay (looking at your cookies, Stellen), can just add a new craftable food item excepted from automatic consumption. Food scarcity/prices are another subject entirely however.

EDIT: In an afterthought, it could be argued that if the necessity to actively manage meters is optional. they may as well be removed entirely. See: dev time vs. benefit. And last, to clarify, not speaking on behalf of the actual team or anything here, this is just a personal thought atm.

[One Two Three Five]

I feel like the whole 'deprivation-survival' thing has legs- certainly more than what our current system has, which is basically a chore that seems to have been kept in out of momentum, since it does the opposite of encourage immersion- but.

A more intensive survival system seems like something for a more survival-oriented server. And setting. And game. But I'm in the 'get rid of it it's pointless' camp. The rest system is whatever, sure, fine. (Mechanically the same as a rest timer, though, you know that right?) But drink/food is pointless.

[Intrepid42]

I'm going to plug for the current system in various situations. As was mentioned above, the desert in particular. There have been times when my character's endurance was measured by how much water they're carrying. I didn't have to go to the desert, I chose to. It's something different from tracking how many heal kits I have left, or the balance between resting and spells left. It feels natural and immersive in that situation.

[WanderingPoet]

That said though, I've always found the food/thirst/rest meters to be rather immersion /breaking/. I realize that when I sit through a 2, 3, 4 hour long RP session that literal days are flowing past but... They kind of aren't? When you're inside a house or cave or what have you RPing, days can pass by simply because people only type so fast - to have to go for a quick nap to bring your rest up or chug another 5 things of coffee has always felt weird.

Oh envy. It could be worse. My Drow coffee addict recently spent four thousand gold to buy a bit of the caw-fee, and wouldn't dream of chugging the precious, precious things.

You poor poor dark elf, deprived of life~ No wonder they're always cranky and trying to murder surfacers

[Terenfel]

What if all areas without monsters. like cities, houses, safe placeses. got the resting system as inns do, (just for food and water) but the food and water system got more harsh for outdoors? like drained by double what it is now, and food got harder to get. more expensive, or maybe only playermade?

[Nitro]

What if all areas without monsters. like cities, houses, safe placeses. got the resting system as inns do, (just for food and water) but the food and water system got more harsh for outdoors? like drained by double what it is now, and food got harder to get. more expensive, or maybe only playermade?

That sounds pretty awful to be honest. Either the scarcity makes it unreasonably hard for beginners to get ahold of, or it's so easy to make that everyone can buy it in hundreds anyway and it just ends up becoming a weight tax on low STR characters.

[Terenfel]

Heroes needs to be well fed? food qulity have to incease with levels? xD

or maybe the meters rise in cities and such.. so poor people have to wait around town to get their food and water back up before they can go adventuring again?

[LichBait]

It'd be neat if in 'civilized' areas the rest/food/drink didn't tic below 0%. Out in 'wilderness/uncivilized/nonsettled' areas, the rest/food/drink tics down below 0%.

[Weerd]

I don't care for the survival system.
Perhaps in wilderness / survival areas like the Sibayad desert and some tweaks / changes to it, it could be used for interesting rp.

As it stands water and food is found on most mobs. Also hundreds of water sources and berry bushes. Calling it a survival system seems a bit of a stretch... more like a forced roleplay mechanic to give people something to do. It's tedious.

[The_Queen~s_Rebuke]

I've never been particularly fond of the survival system over the years? The implementation of coffee and juices and the like is a nice little perk that you can enjoy, but it doesn't address the main problem - that the survival system just doesn't feel like a survival system. It's more things to carry around in your inventory that don't play at anything except to fulfill that specific purpose - and I've always found that a little irritating.

If the possibility of being poisoned, or even having different effects from food was at hand (buffs/debuffs based on what you eat and how much effort was put into prep of the food, perhaps?) then it would probably be more encouraging.

On my adventures to other servers, I've always found that food and the like being optional has always made roleplay around food and drink more powerful. On Ravenloft, for instance, I always really liked the fact that any character, as well, can make standard fare at a campfire - which I personally believe should be incorporated to Arelith, with more complex and magical food and herbal tinctures actually applying to Herbalism.

[Scurvy Cur]

TBH, if you deleted the food and water meters, and just reduced us to a rest/sobriety system this instant, it would have precisely zero impact on my RP.

[TimeAdept]

TBH, if you deleted the food and water meters, and just reduced us to a rest/sobriety system this instant, it would have precisely zero impact on my RP.

Yep. 100%.