Subdual

[Eters]

Greetings,

The Subdual system has always fascinated me, as it seemed to allow a certain alternative to conflict roleplay other than "Kill => Raise" / "Kill => Bash" , and the few times I used it (very few, like two) It allowed for story to develop beyond the usual swift end it comes to, once you kill someone.

But it is flawed in many ways, thus the rarity of it's usage, I'd like to open a conversation about it, and it's limitations.

1- Why is the game punishing the characters that wish to resolve a hostile situation with "disabling" your foe, with a baffling -4 AB unless they have the most useless feat in the game (Dirty Fighting)? Does it make sense that a character with a weapon focus, and an epic weapon focus for example, or a weapon master with superior weapon focus still suffers to hold back against an opponent despite having a complete mastery over their weapon?

2- Why is the game disallowing characters to use any weapon to resolve a hostile situation with "disabling" your foe? if you wish to subdue someone, it is not completely impossible to do so any weapon. A longsword has a flat side, a katana, scimitar, has a false edge, an axe is heavy and you can just cause a concussion with the blunt side, etc..

As it is right now, you have to resort to fighting with a stick, a club, or a halberd, which already means you suffer a mechanical hold back unless those weapons are your focus, on top of the -4 AB from earlier, rendering you completely impotent in a fight.

Do you believe this system would see more usage if it is more usable, or you believe it to be good as it is?

[Cerk Evermoore]

I think the logic is the flat of your blade is less effective when fighting someone than using the sharp end. Regardless most subduel weapons are sub optimal which adds to the challenge and gives them mechanical value.

[Shadowy Reality]

Entirely agree with the OP.

Would love to see this used more often as it has the potential to be a great tool. I always dreaded PvP where you are killed and raised 5 seconds later.

I don't like the excuse of -4ab because it is harder to do, you don't need a to use any blunt part of your weapon to disable someone. You can just slice their wrists, their leg tendons, etc. Our characters fight dragons, we dodge meteor storms, I want to believe they know how not to kill someone if they so desired.

[Griefmaker]

It has been suggested by others in the past and I still think that the best system is for Arelith PvP to be default subdue and to actually kill someone, you have to defeat them and make a conscious decision to attack again or whatever in order to "end" them fully.

Along with that, get rid of all penalties and need for feats or certain weapons.

I know there was some 5% chance that someone would still die regardless of the attempt to subdue them. I also know where that is coming from, the old Arelith standby of "there is always a chance to fail", but meh. I could see some roleplay prospects happening from that, but 98 times out of 100, a scroll would just be used, a raise dead spell, or the person would be taken to a shrine and nothing more would come of that accidental death.

Only those who consciously kill another would move that sort of RP forward I think, instead of rolling a 1, which happens more than 5% of the time.

[DM Senke]

Please stop using the Feedback forum as an end around of the Suggestion Forum. This topic has already been discussed.

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