Looking at WM Numbers
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:08 am
I have over the years been very open voicing my opinion about Weaponmasters, and their role in making melee combat super bursty in Arelith. The idea here is to try to look at some numbers and some specific scenarios. I agree with the general community consensus that Weaponmasters are more or less balanced in the great scheme. That is, if two equally skilled players are playing fairly optimal and standard builds, and are fully buffed, then the Weaponmaster is a solid build, and not the end all. My argument here is that there are many situations where either: 1) characters are not buffed, 2) one does not have an optimal standard build, 3) a player makes a mistake during combat, and in ANY of these the weaponmaster due to its burst nature will reliably simply destroy its target without any hope of recovery, or survival.
I will be using two builds as benchmark:
Cookie Weaponmaster: the traditional 20/7/3 (bard variant) scimitar
Notable feat: Overwhelming critical
Raging Weaponmaster: a barbarian19/weaponmaster7/fighter4 falchion
Notable feats: Thundering Rage
I did not create any of these in PGCC, all the numbers are off my head, if a number is off, feel free to point it out. AC and saves are not too relevant for the discussion, but I added them for completeness sake.
A mage Wizard27/Ranger3 has 408 HP, a Bard26/Paladin4 has 466, buffed. If unbuffed you can remove 30, 60, or 90 HP off that, depending on how each geared.
1) characters are not buffed
The weapon master is going to at least get a flurry (2 attacks) in before its target can react. If the Raging WM criticals twice during that first flurry (roughly a 25% chance) we have the following results:
Buffed Wizard: 78 HP
Wizard -30: 48 HP
Wizard -60: 18 HP
Wizard -90: dead
Buffed Bard: 136 HP
Bard -30: 106 HP
Bard -60: 76 HP
Bard -90: 46 HP
2) the opponent does not have an optimal, standard build:
Now imagine both Wizard or Bard builds are buffed, but maybe they started with 10 Con instead of the 16 I considered for the original calculations. That’s 90 HP less for each. Look at the table above, even if buffed the Wizard is still dead and the Bard has 46 HP left.
3) the opponent misplays
Even if you are fully warded and built optimally, and have one of the standard builds, the weapon master is still going to exploit that more than any other build out there simply in virtue of its criticals. It has happened to us all, you are moving around and you misclick, you get stuck on terrain, you screw up, and you are left-flat footed.
Now combined points 1) 2) and 3) and you can see that the weaponmaster’s chance of killing its target in a split second is actually extremely high.
Vanilla Harm. Vanilla Harm makes a touch attack and places the target at 1d4 HP. Yes, NEP prevents this, just as it does now. But notice that this spell has been nerfed somewhat. It now deals 10*CL (15*CL) if you have the Death Domain, that’s 270 and 405 damage respectively. Vanilla Harm was nerfed because it was no fun that a single touch attack left your character at a death’s door. It was extremely easy to use, you just click and unless your target had a NEP potion it was going to pretty much be dead. In the scenarios above the Weaponmaster outperforms Harm in many situations, actually killing its target instead of simply leaving them at d4 HP.
If “you can just keep NEP up” is not a viable argument to balance Harm damage around then the same can be said about the Weaponmaster’s killing power when the target cannot keep its wards, HP or AC up.
How would I balance it? I would have WM either pick the increased critical threat or increased multiplier at a certain level, and instead give them more frequent bonus to AB (maybe +1 every 3 levels). They would maintain their damage output thanks to the higher AB, but without being as bursty as before.
PS: note that this bursty damage isn't something solely Weaponmasters can do, Rogues and Mages can do the same but it is generally much harder to pull off.
I will be using two builds as benchmark:
Cookie Weaponmaster: the traditional 20/7/3 (bard variant) scimitar
Notable feat: Overwhelming critical
Code: Select all
AB: 47 [25 (Base) + 1 (Focus) + 2 (Epic Focus) + 1 (Prowess) + 1 (WM) + 3 (Damask) + 14 (Str)]
AC: 52 [10 (Base) + 8 (Full Plate) + 3 (Shield) + 4 (Shield Bonus) + 4 (Armour Bonus) + 1 (Boots) + 1 (Dex) + 4 (Helm Bonus) + 6 (Tumble) + 1 (Mage Armour) + 4 (Barkskin) + 4 (Haste) + 2 (Armor Skin)]
HP: 588 HP
Saves: 32/25/19 (38/32/26 vs spells)
Average Damage: 38 [3.5 (Scimitar) + 6 (masterly damask) + 4 (perm essence) + 4 (temp essence) + 14 (Str) + 2 (Specialization) + 4 (Epic Specialization)]
Critical Average Damage: 121 (38*3 + 7 overwhelming)Notable feats: Thundering Rage
Code: Select all
AB: 49 (same as above but 2h)
AC: 40 [10 (Base) + 8 (Full Plate) + 3 (Armour Bonus) + 1 (Boots) + 1 (Dex) + 3 (Helm Bonus) + 3 (Tumble) + 1 (Mage Armour) + 4 (Barkskin) + 4 (Haste) + 2 (Armor Skin)]
HP: 638 (752 raging)
Saves: 33/24/19
Average Damage: 46 [5 (Falchion) 6 (masterly damask) + 4 (perm essence) + 4 (temp essence) + 21 (Str) + 2 (Specialization) + 4 (Epic Specialization)]
Average Damage Raging: 55
Critical Average Damage: 138
Critical Average Damage Raging: 165A mage Wizard27/Ranger3 has 408 HP, a Bard26/Paladin4 has 466, buffed. If unbuffed you can remove 30, 60, or 90 HP off that, depending on how each geared.
1) characters are not buffed
The weapon master is going to at least get a flurry (2 attacks) in before its target can react. If the Raging WM criticals twice during that first flurry (roughly a 25% chance) we have the following results:
Buffed Wizard: 78 HP
Wizard -30: 48 HP
Wizard -60: 18 HP
Wizard -90: dead
Buffed Bard: 136 HP
Bard -30: 106 HP
Bard -60: 76 HP
Bard -90: 46 HP
2) the opponent does not have an optimal, standard build:
Now imagine both Wizard or Bard builds are buffed, but maybe they started with 10 Con instead of the 16 I considered for the original calculations. That’s 90 HP less for each. Look at the table above, even if buffed the Wizard is still dead and the Bard has 46 HP left.
3) the opponent misplays
Even if you are fully warded and built optimally, and have one of the standard builds, the weapon master is still going to exploit that more than any other build out there simply in virtue of its criticals. It has happened to us all, you are moving around and you misclick, you get stuck on terrain, you screw up, and you are left-flat footed.
Now combined points 1) 2) and 3) and you can see that the weaponmaster’s chance of killing its target in a split second is actually extremely high.
Vanilla Harm. Vanilla Harm makes a touch attack and places the target at 1d4 HP. Yes, NEP prevents this, just as it does now. But notice that this spell has been nerfed somewhat. It now deals 10*CL (15*CL) if you have the Death Domain, that’s 270 and 405 damage respectively. Vanilla Harm was nerfed because it was no fun that a single touch attack left your character at a death’s door. It was extremely easy to use, you just click and unless your target had a NEP potion it was going to pretty much be dead. In the scenarios above the Weaponmaster outperforms Harm in many situations, actually killing its target instead of simply leaving them at d4 HP.
If “you can just keep NEP up” is not a viable argument to balance Harm damage around then the same can be said about the Weaponmaster’s killing power when the target cannot keep its wards, HP or AC up.
How would I balance it? I would have WM either pick the increased critical threat or increased multiplier at a certain level, and instead give them more frequent bonus to AB (maybe +1 every 3 levels). They would maintain their damage output thanks to the higher AB, but without being as bursty as before.
PS: note that this bursty damage isn't something solely Weaponmasters can do, Rogues and Mages can do the same but it is generally much harder to pull off.
