RPR & You - Questions about RPR

[Clumsy Clicker]

Hello everyone!

While I am still somewhat new to Arelith I have some feedback regarding the RPR system. I understand the need to gatekeep some of the content as there's some classes/concepts that should be restricted due to the nature of the RP. I feel as though the reward system does a good job of keeping the rif-raff out but as it stands I know several people (Not just me) that are having an incredibly tough time getting past the 10 RPR barrier. My husband has played this game off and on for the past 12 years, and he recently introduced me to NWN and arelith in general and while I enjoy RPing; I've played for two years now and I've never one been recommended or given RPR even while being in several DM events. Usually I get a cool little bit of XP bump but it's clear to me that RPR is just something that's not given lightly. The wiki seems to describe RPR as coming natural with time and easy to get, but myself and some of the people in my play group even after months/years of playing can't even seem to get 20.

I propose that Arelith maybe change the system to a "Report" system and just automatically give 40 RPR to everyone. If someone reports your character the must provide feedback as to why they made the report and perhaps have it vetted through a DM or community review? Reports culminate to a small RPR drop of like 10 pts; and the feedback from the community could help create robust opportunities to explain why a certain action was bad. Typically I've almost NEVER come across an action that I would report except for something that was blatantly breaking the rules (Cybering and the like).

This is just my take on the system and I appreciate any feedback or critiques anyone would have with the idea. Thank you!

[Tythias]

I agree with pretty much all of that. I enjoy Arelith and have put in hundreds of hours, but I'm still 10RPR. It's a little discouraging, since I stay in character at all times and rp the best I can do. It has also put a pause on the RDD kobold I'm working on, which is unfortunate because I love rping as the little guy.

[Void]

Hello everyone!

While I am still somewhat new to Arelith I have some feedback regarding the RPR system. I understand the need to gatekeep some of the content as there's some classes/concepts that should be restricted due to the nature of the RP.

In my experience, the only reliable way to get 20 rpr is to roleplay in an area with dm present. You don't know where dm is present, though.
I'm not sure if -recommend thing works.

[Archnon]

Hello everyone!

While I am still somewhat new to Arelith I have some feedback regarding the RPR system. I understand the need to gatekeep some of the content as there's some classes/concepts that should be restricted due to the nature of the RP.

In my experience, the only reliable way to get 20 rpr is to roleplay in an area with dm present. You don't know where dm is present, though.
I'm not sure if -recommend thing works.

Pretty much this! So we have this come up every few months as new players trickle in and out. This was me, like 5 months ago. My advice from experience.

1.) You probably deserve 20 rpr but you haven't been noticed. Easy to do as DM's aren't everywhere.
2.) Send the DM's a message on the forum and make it easy on them. Tell them your character's name, where you play, what your normal play times are, what RP lines you are apart of (roughly). That way they know who they should have watch you.
3.) After you have messaged them, show up to player run events. DM events are too chancy but in my experience, they are often lurking around player run events, especially if they are announced on the discord.

None of this is going to guarantee you 20 RPR, but it will likely help to get you seen...

As far as feedback, I'm of the very humble opinion that people should start with 20 RPR and leave 10RPR as a punishment for players who break the rules and free the DM's up from dealing with these requests. However, that is up to the powers that be.

[Wuthering]

If you're a 10 and need 20 for a specific reason (RDD kobold, want to roll a character and get a reward etc) I'd write a note to the DMs explaining how long you've been playing, what your characters have done and most important, why it is important to you that you get this RPR ASAP. Send it to active DMs on the forum and keep re-sending it every week or so until someone responds.

If you're just asking for a general bump you may not make it to the DM's "to-do" list but if there's a specific reason then they may have a heart and do you a solid.

As far as feedback, I'm of the very humble opinion that people should start with 20 RPR and leave 10RPR as a punishment for players who break the rules and free the DM's up from dealing with these requests. However, that is up to the powers that be.

I'd be wary of this because 10 RPR has it's place. A bump from 10 to 20 is a nice "we noticed you" moment and it's positive reinforcement. But when you get into punishment things get weird. Negative feedback from anonymous DMs dropping newer players from 20 to 10 because they aren't there yet is just going to cause bad blood.

If someone's RP just needs work it's probably better they start at 10 and stay at 10, a drop from 20 is pretty negative and harsh. If they actually broke a rule then they should get a talking to and a ban if necessary instead of an RPR drop. I just don't like the idea of RPR dropping at all except in really unusual cases, once you make the cut you should just stay there unless you screw up royally. This is supposed to be a fun game after all.

[The GrumpyCat]

If you're a 10 and need 20 for a specific reason (RDD kobold, want to roll a character and get a reward etc) I'd write a note to the DMs explaining how long you've been playing, what your characters have done and most important, why it is important to you that you get this RPR ASAP. Send it to active DMs on the forum and keep re-sending it every week or so until someone responds.

If you're just asking for a general bump you may not make it to the DM's "to-do" list but if there's a specific reason then they may have a heart and do you a solid.

As far as feedback, I'm of the very humble opinion that people should start with 20 RPR and leave 10RPR as a punishment for players who break the rules and free the DM's up from dealing with these requests. However, that is up to the powers that be.

I'd be wary of this because 10 RPR has it's place. A bump from 10 to 20 is a nice "we noticed you" moment and it's positive reinforcement. But when you get into punishment things get weird. Negative feedback from anonymous DMs dropping newer players from 20 to 10 because they aren't there yet is just going to cause bad blood.

If someone's RP just needs work it's probably better they start at 10 and stay at 10, a drop from 20 is pretty negative and harsh. If they actually broke a rule then they should get a talking to and a ban if necessary instead of an RPR drop. I just don't like the idea of RPR dropping at all except in really unusual cases, once you make the cut you should just stay there unless you screw up royally. This is supposed to be a fun game after all.

I mean, what you're suggesting is already in place!

Used to be everyone started at 0 rpr
Then we changed it to 10 rpr for just the reason you outlined.

[Cataclysm of Iron]

I mean, what you're suggesting is already in place!

Used to be everyone started at 0 rpr
Then we changed it to 10 rpr for just the reason you outlined.

This is a classic situation of moving the bar seeming novel and interesting initially, and then it becomes the new 'normal' and there's clamour for change again. Perfectly natural, but yes - for a long time: 1) RPR started at 0 and even 10 and 20 had to be earned over a long period, 2) RPR drops were much more common than I believe they are today, 3) there was no -recommend function, a DM (or multiple DMs, for the higher RPRs) had to directly intervene at every stage. The situation today is comparatively pretty nice - but it obviously doesn't seem that to someone relatively new.


@OP
Time for some tough love, but if you've been playing on the server for several years with lots of activity across a decent spread of time zones in various areas/plot lines, the chances are your RPR is 10 because 10 RPR is what the DM Team think is appropriate for you. That's not to say you're a bad roleplayer* nor is it to say you don't have the potential to get a 20+, but presumably over several years, lots of scenes, characters, plots, and events (and, one imagines, lots of other players and DMs), the one constant is you. People always say, and I fully agree, that the best thing you can do for your RPR is to forget it exists and have fun storytelling - and it will naturally improve. But I also recognise it's quite hard to do that sometimes - so if it is something you want to focus on improving, the best way to do that is to look introspectively - how can I make my characters more compelling, memorable, and interesting, and further to that how can I create RP and story hooks for others with the way I characterise and express my characters, and how they interact with the world?

*it's a little dated perhaps, but my understanding of the RPR tiers (and I should stress I'm not a DM or admin and never have been, I'm just going off my own experiences plus recalling old forum threads involving DM/admin commentary, which is why I say it might be outdated - might not ever have been right) has always been that the tiers shake down broadly as follows

0 = bad at basic roleplaying or doesn't attempt to roleplay
10 = good roleplayer, builds a character and stays in that character
20 = very good roleplayer, character is very memorable/compelling and consistently brings scenes to life
30 = good storyteller, creates plotlines and draws in/invites other players to roleplay
40 = very good storyteller, brings the server to life and adds lots to the stories and experience of many characters

Note that baked-in breakpoint between 20 and 30 - I'm not sure if this has changed, but it always used to be that getting to 20 was about the character you built, and breaking 30 and 40 was about using that character to create opportunities for everyone else and adding to the collective server experience.

As to your original suggestion, can't say I'm a fan - at the moment although there's definitely a perception, understandably so, of an 'in' and 'out' crowd and the lower tiers can definitely come to feel punitive, that would surely only be exacerbated by a position where you start in the best position and can only go down. It would feel even more punitive - because the only way most people's RPRs would ever go is down, if they moved at all - and I think a lot of people would spend a lot of time worried about 'slipping up' and losing their 40.

[Clumsy Clicker]

To be reasonable fair,

I did ask OOCly with some of the people I've RP'ed with over the past few days any nobody seemed to claim that I was a bad role player. In fact most were 20 RPR and could not recommend or were in the same boat as me. Within a few hours of this post I was raised to 20 RPR. After reading the history behind RPR and some of the changes that were made from some of the people who've played on Arelith much longer than I have perhaps nothing needs to be changed? If that's truely how everyone feels then perhaps my post was out of line. I apologize for that. By the most recent poster's rating (And those on the wiki) I would rate myself as a 20 RPR'er; And I have been so for quite some time in my opinion but to ask for the DM team to always be on the lookout for people with 10 when there's a VAST amount of players on the server is asking for quite a bit.

I believe it was more a matter of opportunity than my roleplaying skills; as I would imagine it is that way for most people who find themselves in the same boat I was in. If I ever get 30 RPR I will challenge myself to try to recommend people as often as I can pending they deserve it. I would challenge other people on the server to do the same. With the Corona virus there's been quite the influx of new players-- I was OVERJOYED when I randomly had the 20 XP tick over my head. Just something to think about? Thanks for your feedback everyone!

[Cataclysm of Iron]

To be reasonable fair,

I did ask OOCly with some of the people I've RP'ed with over the past few days any nobody seemed to claim that I was a bad role player. In fact most were 20 RPR and could not recommend or were in the same boat as me. Within a few hours of this post I was raised to 20 RPR. After reading the history behind RPR and some of the changes that were made from some of the people who've played on Arelith much longer than I have perhaps nothing needs to be changed? If that's truely how everyone feels then perhaps my post was out of line. I apologize for that. By the most recent poster's rating (And those on the wiki) I would rate myself as a 20 RPR'er; And I have been so for quite some time in my opinion but to ask for the DM team to always be on the lookout for people with 10 when there's a VAST amount of players on the server is asking for quite a bit.

I believe it was more a matter of opportunity than my roleplaying skills; as I would imagine it is that way for most people who find themselves in the same boat I was in. If I ever get 30 RPR I will challenge myself to try to recommend people as often as I can pending they deserve it. I would challenge other people on the server to do the same. With the Corona virus there's been quite the influx of new players-- I was OVERJOYED when I randomly had the 20 XP tick over my head. Just something to think about? Thanks for your feedback everyone!

I definitely don't think it was out of line, for what it's worth - it was a valid point well made, I just happened not to agree! People sometimes get a bit tired of the 'is RPR working/accurate/etc?)' discussion because as you can imagine, it rolls around every few months and a lot of the dialogue is the same. I personally don't mind it, though - people tend to be adult enough to stay civil and, in any case, the system needs to be looked at and scrutinised every so often to keep it healthy, as evidenced by the fact that it has changed over the years.

Congratulations on your RPR increase though!

[Marsi]

Those who are saying "make sure to be in the right event at the right time to be noticed!" have the right idea but are missing the point imo.

If you want the attention of DMs, impact the server in a positive way that it's impossible for them not to hear about you. Be proactive and bold. I've always looked at the RPR as an assessment of impact, influence and relationships. And how consistently those attributes are reflected.

20 RPRs are these day the "ok" tier that everyone is entitled to apparently, but to me, these are players who are capable of building strong characters and therefore strong relationships. Not everyone can "get" roleplaying this way, and giving your character a true soul takes talent, experience and patience.

Very Darwinian, but as an exercise, think -- what would happen if your character just disappeared? Who and what would be affected?

If you picked a 20 RPR character at random and deleted them, it would negatively affect a lot of other characters at a micro level. A lot of characters are going to be robbed an important and mutually character-developing friend (or nemesis!). There will always be a void in those characters lives that they may or may not be able to fill.

This continues up the scale. If you deleted a 40 RPR character at random, entire narratives and factions would collapse. There would be a momentous changing in the course of IG history.

So how can you build stronger relationships? Well, the first (and really only) step is to just approach anyone and everyone. High RPRs are mistakenly characterized as writing snobs or popular OOC, when in reality they are always looking out for ways to promote other characters and become a true fixture in the world. Stop thinking about getting the DMs attention and focus on the attention of other players. While you've been concocting ways to show up at the right time, 20-40 RPRs have already caused hundreds of little micro-engagements.

So without relationships, what is your character really worth? What does your character offer to others in terms of character development? And these are relationships of any kind, figurative and literal. Even a wanderer who has no actual friends but (whose player) crafts powerful interactions with everyone they meet is building relationships and leaving a mark.

I'm not sure if this has changed, but it always used to be that getting to 20 was about the character you built, and breaking 30 and 40 was about using that character to create opportunities for everyone else and adding to the collective server experience.[/i]

100% agreement. The numerical scale is misleading imo. It's almost a player/coach dynamic. Being a really good player doesn't make you a good coach, nor does being a great coach necessarily mean you are twice as good at playing.

[Archnon]

I mean, what you're suggesting is already in place!

Used to be everyone started at 0 rpr
Then we changed it to 10 rpr for just the reason you outlined.

This is a classic situation of moving the bar seeming novel and interesting initially, and then it becomes the new 'normal' and there's clamour for change again. Perfectly natural, but yes - for a long time: 1) RPR started at 0 and even 10 and 20 had to be earned over a long period, 2) RPR drops were much more common than I believe they are today, 3) there was no -recommend function, a DM (or multiple DMs, for the higher RPRs) had to directly intervene at every stage. The situation today is comparatively pretty nice - but it obviously doesn't seem that to someone relatively new.


@OP
Time for some tough love, but if you've been playing on the server for several years with lots of activity across a decent spread of time zones in various areas/plot lines, the chances are your RPR is 10 because 10 RPR is what the DM Team think is appropriate for you. That's not to say you're a bad roleplayer* nor is it to say you don't have the potential to get a 20+, but presumably over several years, lots of scenes, characters, plots, and events (and, one imagines, lots of other players and DMs), the one constant is you. People always say, and I fully agree, that the best thing you can do for your RPR is to forget it exists and have fun storytelling - and it will naturally improve. But I also recognise it's quite hard to do that sometimes - so if it is something you want to focus on improving, the best way to do that is to look introspectively - how can I make my characters more compelling, memorable, and interesting, and further to that how can I create RP and story hooks for others with the way I characterise and express my characters, and how they interact with the world?

*it's a little dated perhaps, but my understanding of the RPR tiers (and I should stress I'm not a DM or admin and never have been, I'm just going off my own experiences plus recalling old forum threads involving DM/admin commentary, which is why I say it might be outdated - might not ever have been right) has always been that the tiers shake down broadly as follows

0 = bad at basic roleplaying or doesn't attempt to roleplay
10 = good roleplayer, builds a character and stays in that character
20 = very good roleplayer, character is very memorable/compelling and consistently brings scenes to life
30 = good storyteller, creates plotlines and draws in/invites other players to roleplay
40 = very good storyteller, brings the server to life and adds lots to the stories and experience of many characters

Note that baked-in breakpoint between 20 and 30 - I'm not sure if this has changed, but it always used to be that getting to 20 was about the character you built, and breaking 30 and 40 was about using that character to create opportunities for everyone else and adding to the collective server experience.

As to your original suggestion, can't say I'm a fan - at the moment although there's definitely a perception, understandably so, of an 'in' and 'out' crowd and the lower tiers can definitely come to feel punitive, that would surely only be exacerbated by a position where you start in the best position and can only go down. It would feel even more punitive - because the only way most people's RPRs would ever go is down, if they moved at all - and I think a lot of people would spend a lot of time worried about 'slipping up' and losing their 40.

@grumpycat - It was a very humble suggestion mind you. My thought was to save you lot some work. I honestly think the system is likely fine, it just needs to be better explained.

However, to the post here, this really strikes me as a better way to explain it, and maybe the wiki needs updated. Currently it reads:

0 Bonus: Does not stay in character, rushes around from spawn to spawn killing things with little to no interaction.
10 Bonus: Stays in character sometimes, OR is new to the server and still to be evaluated - this is the starting RPR for all players.
20 Bonus: Stays in character at all times, creates a memorable personality, and is fun to play with.

And pretty much all the DM's say the same thing.

Perhaps it should be clear that for 20, the character needs to be noted RPing well. Sort of like an evaluation. Or even some recommendations on how to find yourself into that situation, ie, go to events, organize something, get involved in politics, etc. Perhaps the problem is not the system but how it is explained.

To be honest, it really never bugged me until the switch to roll characters at 20 rpr. Now, mind you, I have ever only rolled two characters (one was level 16 and was my first character and thematically and mechanically broken, the second was level 24 and mechanically broken), but something about that switch made it seem like a way bigger deal. That was probably just me though.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I think there's a lot of tangible skills and actual examples that could be used to illustrate good roleplaying. It's something I've always wanted to talk about, but we sadly lack a solid place to discuss that reasonably. Often discussions of roleplaying devolve into "ur doin it wrong" which breaches the Be Nice rule.

Just know that roleplaying is a skill. It's really hard. If you're finding everything 'easy', that might be a sign you're missing something. Struggling with roleplay can usually means your teetering close to awesomeness.

[Straxus]

To be honest.. I am not sure when... or if it has changed for me... sometimes I'll get in the middle of rp with a group... sometimes I just walk by and laugh... never noticed.

[Aeralad]

Roleplaying isn't hard.

[xanrael]

Staying in character shouldn't be hard.

Roleplaying in a way that's engaging and inclusive, especially in situations involving some form a conflict (whether initiative is rolled or not), that isn't easy. Making memorable scenes or extended story-lines can take a large amount of effort both in planning and execution and in understanding what the other participants want then adapting to their own actions.

[Shadowy Reality]

Roleplaying really well is hard.

I think that is what Seven Sons of Sin and Marsi are getting at, which I entirely agree with. It is extremely hard to create engaging, meaningful roleplay for yourself and others.

Going around, asking people if they want to go on an adventure, comment a couple of things as you kill things together is not that. There is nothing wrong with that, and doing that is certainly not out of character, but that is the lower bar, you can do so much better.

I always remember one of my characters being dragged into an adventure in the Spires by a good roleplayer, playing an Infernalist Cleric at the time. The character spent the entire time speaking to the rest of the party of misfits about her faith, asking us our opinion of the Deities and all that.

That is compelling roleplay, I got to know more about another character, and the player got everyone in the party to tell more about themselves, personal things.

[AstralUniverse]

To the OP and others in that situation.

You must consider the fact that, perhaps, you just havent done much more than just staying in character in the most basic level of it.

For example, I joined a party of low level adventurers and one of them summoned a zombie. Now, the entire party didnt seem to mind the act of animation what so ever even though they all played 'surprised' at first. At that point you gotta ask yourself "Am I now going to turn a blind eye because I want to party with that person for my gold and exp or do I break away from the group (with/without following RP) because I shall not party with an undead animator on my goodly character?". I think it's THAT sort of situations where you can prove you're more than just 10 rpr worthy. Again, I'm not saying you and everyone with 10 rpr just grind mindlessly and disregard IC things but it's an angle to look at.

Point is "Staying in Character" has different grades to it. And just like with 30 and 40 rpr. 10 and 20 RPR also have some relation to how strict and loyal you are to the setting and your character sheet.

[Itikar]

As a new player, who got RPR 20 relatively soon, compared to some other players I have read about on the forums, and who had absolutely NO interest in any of the options unlocked by 20 RPR (classes, awards, etc.), I feel like saying this:

Having found a good group of people I liked to roleplay and go adventuring together, I really struggled during the time I was 10 RPR (compared to them being all 20). Fundamentally, in order to keep up the same leveling pace as them, due to their rpr ticks yielding twice as much as my ones, I had to grind quite a bit, otherwise I would have been left behind.

Fortunately I got by till I received the "bump", and now I am at most one level behind my buddies, but thinking back at it, what it hurt the most was that I felt somewhat discouraged, due to the mechanism illustrated above, to actually sit down and roleplay. Which is, in my humble opinion, a little counterproductive, if the goal of the RPR is to encourage roleplay in general and good roleplay in particular.

Truth be told, eventually I sat down and roleplayed regardless and to hell with the leveling, because there was only so much grinding I could withstand. And maybe it is that which worked out for me in the end, and that is also perhaps what the system tries to achieve.

Regardless, I cannot help but feeling that there should be a system that makes it easier for the players who can -recommend, to spot the RPR 10s out there, and for DMs to be made aware if somebody is playing for a long time at 10 RPR, so they can direct their attention to them, sooner rather than later.

Other than that the only thing I would like to add is that I do not see having RPR 10 as a bad thing per se, it is certainly way better than 0, as some have said in this thread. I think what makes it particularly aggravating is the fact a great percentage of the playerbase gravitates around 20 RPR, thus making 20 de facto the meter of comparison. Had the folks I played with been all at 10 RPR, I probably could not have cared less for it. But as things stand, it creates a separation among the playerbase, with some side-effects that may be not so positive.

[Aradin]

Here's a thought. What if the -recommended system opened up so that any player could recommend someone who is at a lower RPR than they are? 20s could recommend 10s, 30s could recommend 10s & 20s, 40s could recommend everyone. Less DM strain about monitoring players for RPR increase - if a handful of 20s keep recommending a new 10 RPR player, the DMs will know to take a look at that player.

Or just open up -recommend for full open usage. To be honest I'm not sure why it's limited. As I understand it doesn't do anything mechanical beyond sending the DMs a notification that someone has been recommended. Why should only 30/40s get the option to tip DMs' attention towards good role players?

[Cataclysm of Iron]

Here's a thought. What if the -recommended system opened up so that any player could recommend someone who is at a lower RPR than they are? 20s could recommend 10s, 30s could recommend 10s & 20s, 40s could recommend everyone. Less DM strain about monitoring players for RPR increase - if a handful of 20s keep recommending a new 10 RPR player, the DMs will know to take a look at that player.

Or just open up -recommend for full open usage. To be honest I'm not sure why it's limited. As I understand it doesn't do anything mechanical beyond sending the DMs a notification that someone has been recommended. Why should only 30/40s get the option to tip DMs' attention towards good role players?

I believe the use of -recommend on an RPR10 player elevates them automatically to 20, which is probably the function that the Devs want to keep a reasonably tight lid on.

[PeterRasta]

Maybe it could be made so that:
When an RPR20 recommends an RPR10, a notification is sent to the DMs.
When an RPR30 recommends an RPR 10, they get automatically raised to RPR 20.
When an RPR30 recommends an RPR20, a notification is sent to the DMs.
When an RPR40 recommends an RPR10, they're automatically raised to 20.
When an RPR40 recommends an-..

And so on. A tiered system for the -recommend function, rather than a gated one. (Preferably one that works in reverse aswell. If a lower RPR player encounters someone roleplaying so well that they're like, "Oh WOW!" I don't see why they shouldn't be able to highlight that in some way)

Just a thought.