Feedback: Sencliff

[CorsicanDoge]

Right now nobody entrusts the ships to upgrade them at Sencliff and somehow in a naval overhaul update, the pirates are the ones least benefiting from this whole arrangement. While I heard that there aren't going to be additional settlements I think the way things are is making Sencliff fairly irrelevant in the domain that they are supposed to be relevant in the first place: The sea.

So from what I understand, there were two approaches:

1. Private boats originally. That was reverted to 2.

2. Rental boats. Worked, up until light of this update where they're all toothless skiffs and nobody trusts some lvl 3 to wreck everything.

I think there is a way to integrate the settlement system into this where it offers some degree of permanence while still being relied on by the Sencliffian people at large.

Let it be the council of the Devil's Table, where three spots represent the most powerful gangs and each spot gets a ship of their own and let the voting base be anyone with tattoos. Councils, typically, are ineffective and prone to squabbling which I feel would best represent the freeport nature of it all. They've structure, but it'd be remarkably hard for one gang to hold up all three spots.

What do you guys think? I do think these guys need some restructuring or else the trajectory hints them being land pirates at most and non-existant at the very worst.

[Skibbles]

How do the Sencliff boats work? Are they all rentals or is it a mix?

I could see it being very feelsbadman if someone spent a bunch of resources on a boat only for it to be in constant use, by everyone but them, until it sunk.

If that's the case maybe all the boats can start at some kind of mid-tier - that way pirate boats will at least always be decent, but strong under focused leadership.

[CorsicanDoge]

If you have tattoos you can rent out the two boats they have for a limited time, regardless of level or pirate rank.

[Diegovog]

Sails and hull upgrades could be semi permanent upgrades that degrades with time in the 2 rentals. That way whoever is currently rping in sencliff could always be investing in maintaining its rental fleet.

[Dreams]

This is definitely something that could be worked out in character. Some new pirate comes along and trashes a ship? Maybe all of the other pirates would be pissed off enough to do something about that.

[CorsicanDoge]

This is definitely something that could be worked out in character. Some new pirate comes along and trashes a ship? Maybe all of the other pirates would be pissed off enough to do something about that.

Yeah normally there'd be an IC solution here but I can just see this scenario panning out too much:

[level 3 trashes a ship that costs 800 wood]
[pirates get angry]
[level 3 -delete_character]

Repeat cycle.

And I wasn't exaggerating. These ship upgrade cost an extortionate amount of wood/cloth and the supplies needed to fuel up on ammunition is also insane too, something that can be whisked away by level 3 that doesn't know any better or even worse, could be actively sabotaging a team effort.

[Dreams]

People won't be making characters to actively sabotage a group effort. That is likely something to mention to DMs if it happens.

However, if it's a new pirate PC, a lot could be done to welcome them to Sencliff, pull them into a crew, get them 'in the know' IC about how things work, help them to understand what is at stake. I'm not going to spell it all out. Be crafty and find a way to succeed through your character.

[Xarge VI]

I think a good solution would be as follows:

Leave Warship as is.

Add 1-2 new ships.

These new ships + liberator work under a pirate election system. This would keep things dynamic and be realistic that ships are commanded by popularity contest in a pirate society.

[helitron]

People won't be making characters to actively sabotage a group effort. That is likely something to mention to DMs if it happens.

However, if it's a new pirate PC, a lot could be done to welcome them to Sencliff, pull them into a crew, get them 'in the know' IC about how things work, help them to understand what is at stake. I'm not going to spell it all out. Be crafty and find a way to succeed through your character.

That would be ideal and many pirate players try to do that (introducing new PCs to the rules and getting them onto their crews). There are also boards around indicating to not leave ships at sea etc...However, this is not working and will never work, even with increased effort from the experienced pirates.

You have to keep in mind that the population on Sencliff is very low. There are barely any experienced PCs online or around the island, which means that most of the time the docks are empty and nobody can supervise new PCs. Also new players that start on Sencliff very often do not have a clue about Arelith rules in general.

The other problem are the low level pirate writs that require to use a ship to find certain islets where you hunt crabs or snakes.
The chances are very high that new pirates try to go there on their own with the consequence that the ships are lost at sea or will get destroyed. Despite the notes indicating to return the ships, most of the time one or both ships are out at sea without anyone owning them.

Also related to sabotage acts. Not all pirates are friends and there are very often tensions between individuals and crews. It would be a legitimate move for one crew to sabotage the ship that was upgraded by the other crew.

A few things need to be changed to the Sencliff ships to make them useful (I posted these already on the suggestion board viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31025):

- make the ships similar to the one in Andunor with a brokerage system where a crew has to outbid another crew. This could also lead to some privateering RP where pirates could ask settlements/factions to help finance the ship. Duration should be limited to 4 IG years and only dread pirates are allowed to own the ships.
- increase the number of ships to 3, or leave one as a rental for low level pirate writs and the other ships private with a brokerage system

[Skibbles]

Good solutions above.

I don't think a purely IC solution could be relied on, in its current format, for the same reason you'll never find anything of great value stored in a public quarter - the risk does not nearly match the reward.

Thus the RP, instead of finding solutions to things that by their nature cannot be controlled, will simply shift away from the intended angle: that pirates presumably do pirate things on the water.

[Gouge Away]

Pirates don’t work hard. Pirates steal. I think they should have a serious leg up with their ships that doesn’t require significant investment, but they also shouldn’t be able to build what a civilized navy is capable of.

[Xerah]

Pirate ship "elections" are an amazing idea. Would love to see that.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Pirate ship "elections" are an amazing idea. Would love to see that.

Agreed.