The Logging Camp

[AstralUniverse]

So to put it simply, the logging camp of Guldorand is quite lifeless...

Rarely, or never anyone lurking around for RP, quarters are up for sale, shops arent selling almost at all. Is it just me and my playing times?

I think the problem lays in the fact that to get out of the logging camp to any direction you'll be facing either 1) A long walk to Bendir or the arcane tower. 2) walking 2 screens to the weatherstone through lvl 15-20 content, including wyvrens. This requires wards investment for most people if they're even able to manage it. 3) walking two long screens through Hill Giants and it really takes long time and again, it's irrelevant under lvl 15 without a party.

I suggest the logging camp gets the boat back, unless there's another mysterious plan to it in a longer term?

[Nitro]

I think the idea was for it to become a more isolated middle of nowhere logging camp.

[Skarain]

Monster race takeover, clearly.

[The Impregnable Derp]

I am still going there sometimes to grab and do writs around the area. What really hurt traffic to the area is that they removed the ferry to Brog. There's no scroll vendor or place to buy healing potions or restoration scrolls in the logging camp. So now it is a pain having to walk all the way to Bendir between writs to restock on supplies when running low on potions, before I would just take the ferry to Brog. It's kind of a shame because before the logging camp was an excellent place to meet up, supply, and embark on writs, even if there was no scroll vendor. There used to be a guy in the monastery (before it moved) who sold healing potions. And it was easy to get to Cordor when done. I'm getting by alright now because I hit level 21 and unlocked Teleport. But without that doing writs in the area would cause a bit of annoyance. I don't see why the ferry to Brog couldn't return, surely the dwarves need wood, and the new port city isn't exactly a logging town.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Honestly, I think these issues existed before the boat was removed. I remember when Guldorand was the premium location to go do writs in the high end level range, but two things slowly but surely made Sibayad more appealing.

1) The writs are easier. As a result you can generally find people to group up with, and even if you can't two out of three of the crypts are easily soloable for just about any build as is the lost desert if you have the time. The pay out also tends to be strictly better because these dungeons tend to have more chests/berries then the ones in Guldorand. I still go up there and do the writs from time to time, but even I noticed a dip in how often that is over each passing character just because it tends to be not as profitable.

2) Because of the IC laws of guldorand, there is literally no way to sell between writs without having to rebuff. It sounds silly, but that will effect the way some people think, especially if they are relying on wands. Also, more people then one might suspect really dislike being harassed over silly stuff like wards and their weapon being out. I think on a hardcore server that sort of thing is fine, but arelith caters to all sorts of players and if the local government wants their area to be popular they need to take that into consideration with how they write and enforce their laws.


Also, not related to Sibayad but still relevant, if you like challenging content more then maximizing your leveling speed and gold intake, Nexus falls offers the same thing but with a portal right outside the Silver Baugh. And yes, writing this and focusing specifically on writs makes me feel a little dirty, but writs drive traffic and that's what the thread was about

[thimblegiant]

I don't know. I'm feeling a little baffled with what I'm hearing in different threads at the moment to be honest. I would to go to Guldorand depending on my mood - it was a nice place to hang out to catch up on campfire chatter, the message board or just expose yourself to a little danger if you wanted to take in a bit of cold weather exploration. The shops were decent as well.

More than once Guldorand did provide a nice jumping off point to party up and take a vessel to Brog for a dungeon run or one of the classroom "field trips" that seemed to be more frequent in the past.

But this talk about optimizing this and that lately - blah - I do enough of that in RL. Not interested if this is what is required to play now. Maybe I just need to step back.

Also, more people then one might suspect really dislike being harassed over silly stuff like wards and their weapon being out. I think on a hardcore server that sort of thing is fine, but arelith caters to all sorts of players and if the local government wants their area to be popular they need to take that into consideration with how they write and enforce their laws.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding - are you suggesting on a RP server people should be allowed to walk/run around settlements with weapons drawn?

[Morgy]

There's no reason to run about with weapons drawn or wards flaming inside a regulated city/town. I get that it's inconvenient to re-ward, but that is the price of being on a RP server - in society you have to respect that citizens/villagers want to feel safe. If I was walking around with a knife in my hand or hand gun, people would feel mighty uncomfortable and intimidated.

I would suggest more remote places such as Skaljard, Logging Camps, Old Mayfields, etc, are more acceptable places to keep armed because they have a lot less protection to rely on than a garrison or substantial militia force.

[AstralUniverse]

Lets not derail the thread into a discussion about IC laws about buffs and weapons. Because I dont want to see it locked so soon and it's certainly not the reason the area dropped hard in traffic.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Lets not derail the thread into a discussion about IC laws about buffs and weapons. Because I dont want to see it locked so soon and it's certainly not the reason the area dropped hard in traffic.

I didn't mean to imply that it was the sole reason, sorry if you guys took it that way. And I am sure that the population fell off a cliff when the new city opened, because now all of the locals are there instead of in the logging camp. But I do feel like over the last year the amount of people passing through has slowed down drastically from where it used to be. While there are several factors, one is the laws and how they are enforced even if its way down on the list compared to my other points. I'm not saying this to be cheeky, I'm saying this because this is something I literally have heard people saying about why they never go to guldorand anymore.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding - are you suggesting on a RP server people should be allowed to walk/run around settlements with weapons drawn?

The only thing I am suggesting here is that with a population of 2000 + players it would be impossible to find a consensus on what constitutes "the perfect RP server". To Irongron's credit, he's built arelith into a world that is welcoming to all sorts of players. Me personally? I come from a hardcore server where these sorts of laws were always enforced, and it's what I am used to. I can also adapt however, and I see how much cooler Cordor became when they relaxed the weapons laws. Not because people were now running around with weapons out, but because the guard factions were actually focused on catching criminals.

Now I am in no way suggesting that this thread should cause guldorand to change their laws, I think that should be handled ic like most things. But I do think that dismissing people who view these laws as silly as not being up to the standards of what an rp server should be comes across as elitist, which I'm sure you didn't mean to do.

That being said, Astral is right this is a thread about the traffic of the logging town and this is a bit of a derail now which was not the original intention of my post, I just felt I couldn't let the misinterpretation of what I was trying to say go without a response. Carry on!

[Red_Wharf]

It is Greyhammer with extra quarters.

[thimblegiant]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding - are you suggesting on a RP server people should be allowed to walk/run around settlements with weapons drawn?

The only thing I am suggesting here is that with a population of 2000 + players it would be impossible to find a consensus on what constitutes "the perfect RP server". To Irongron's credit, he's built arelith into a world that is welcoming to all sorts of players. Me personally? I come from a hardcore server where these sorts of laws were always enforced, and it's what I am used to. I can also adapt however, and I see how much cooler Cordor became when they relaxed the weapons laws. Not because people were now running around with weapons out, but because the guard factions were actually focused on catching criminals.

Well this is news - the social norm has shifted so we can run around with weapons drawn in Cordor now? Interesting. Yes, in my elitist opinion that is the wrong direction for an RP server. It feels completely janky. There are dozens of servers that allow for that already, wouldn't need to be on Arelith to have that experience and the direction it leads.

But I do think that dismissing people who view these laws as silly as not being up to the standards of what an rp server should be comes across as elitist, which I'm sure you didn't mean to do.

I see. Actually that was a genuine question, which you've answered in the affirmative.

The logging camp is dead because all the players went to the city proper, which was the natural consequence of opening the city.

[Duchess Says]

Maybe something like this exists and if so, disregard, but if it doesn't could a ferry to the new city port be added where there was once the ferry to Brog?

[Zavandar]

I also think it would be a good idea to have a ferry between the logging camp and new city

[Xerah]

Well this is news - the social norm has shifted so we can run around with weapons drawn in Cordor now? Interesting. Yes, in my elitist opinion that is the wrong direction for an RP server. It feels completely janky. There are dozens of servers that allow for that already, wouldn't need to be on Arelith to have that experience and the direction it leads.

I don't think this is true unless it's just changed.

Guards don't need to chase PCs across the city making sure that someone puts their weapon away. It's far better to just say "hey, you, weapons away!" and leave it at that. Then go and do something that's actually interesting.

Just show people how you're supposed to act, don't hit them with the stick over and over again.

[DangerDolphin]

I always avoided it because it wasn't particularly close to portals and a pain to visit. A direct ferry from Gul and Cordor as mentioned would improve it - atm you need to go through 3-4 loading screens and swap boat once.

Also being told to drop buffs and summons when I was playing a squishy mage when there are dangerous monsters right outside the gate was a put off. (I wouldn't mind much in Cordor where it's safe). It sounds like there's no guards left to do that now though!

I think the main reason it's empty now is because everyone has moved to the new city. There's nobody RPing there, so the lack of portals and lack of RP make it very undesirable. I think that's fine though - it gives somewhere for loner mages and ranger-type characters to hangout.

[Duchess Says]

But I believe there are still writs, shops and so on. Just having a ferry again (this time to the city) would improve the traffic considerably and be a nice quality of life boon for anyone who might have business visiting. The RP might pick back up some when the new city novelty wears off as well.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I too think a ferry would be a excellent idea.

Said stuff

I get it. You like your fantasy to be realistic, me too. I'm going to assume you feel that magical staves and quarterstaffs being allowed open carry is also "bad for an RP server". Quarterstaffs are weapons after all, perhaps the most powerful weapon on the server in the hands of a monk, and staves are powerful magic artifacts that would scare the poor commoners way more then a simple weapon they actually understand. So clearly they gotta go too, right? For the sake of the rp?

[LasharaDyran]

FWIW, you don't need to drop all buffs in the logging camp or New Guldorand... just concealment wards - invis, stoneskin, prem etc which you can dispel individually using the -dispel {tag} commands. For example, dispel improved invisibility would be "-dispel imp"

As a player who played in the logging camp for 6 months until the server opened, and now plays in the new city (but still has quarters in the logging camp) ....the problem isn't that the logging camp is hard to get to..there is the portal in the logging ground relatively nearby. The problem is it's hard to leave. The nearest source portal is the Weatherstone; the nearest boat is New Guldorand; the nearest town? 3-ish zones away. The majority of which are through some pretty tough content (those Rocs can be brutal on a unbuffed mage with no pet out and the buggers should have been fined long ago for transition camping the zone line).

I don't particularly think a source portal is the answer but I would fully support the ferry coming back.

[AstralUniverse]

I think a second Amnian Pilot with a City - Logging camp route, or same one going logging camp > guld city > brog would be nice. Really, any boat out of the logging camp to.... anywhere really would be a huge improvement and likely solve the problem.

You must be asking yourself by now who's supplying Amn all the lumber from the logging camp now without the pilot right?

[The Impregnable Derp]

It seems most of us are in agreement, that the logging camp needs a ferry again.

[The GrumpyCat]

I think a second Amnian Pilot with a City - Logging camp route, or same one going logging camp > guld city > brog would be nice. Really, any boat out of the logging camp to.... anywhere really would be a huge improvement and likely solve the problem.

You must be asking yourself by now who's supplying Amn all the lumber from the logging camp now without the pilot right?

Fun fact!

Guldorand got that boat due to the long plot I ran years ago involving, yep, loggers from Amn, hostile druids, and lots of fun shenanigans! Good times.

I wouldn't mind a boat that went there still - but it's really not my call.

[Definately Not A Mimic]

It was an excellent event, very interesting and in depth that caused lots of ripples across the island.

On topic, agreed, getting to Westcliff once you have the portal in the logging grounds isn't any issue. Its the hiking across several maps or wasting a lens to get out thats the issue.
I like the out of the way feel for it, makes it feel small again which was one of its best features/charms. Sadly getting that means little traffic. Maybe if not a ferry, a portal out that is in an out of the way, but less dangerous than the current one's, spot.

[thimblegiant]

Guldorand got that boat due to the long plot I ran years ago involving, yep, loggers from Amn, hostile druids, and lots of fun shenanigans! Good times.

Sounds like more shenanigans are in order.

Given the lift and lever were still present even after they were revamped I kind of assumed the area was still under construction. Maybe not the ferry specifically but I thought the lower area might still be considered.

I really don't mind it how it is now, but I can imagine the shops may be struggling a bit.

[Barkoneus]

Westcliff/The Logging Camp population absolutely fell off a cliff when the new city opened. It was plenty populated before that (at least during my playtimes). My character still visits Westcliff on a regular basis because the headquarters of the Skull Crags Rangers is there, but it's mostly to pop in, visit HQ, and then leave because nobody is around.

One thing that might help, but would unfortunately require builder work, is compressing the areas. Right now we have three distinct areas:

1) The main camp
2) The logging grounds just north of the camp
3) The docks

So the very small population feels even smaller because it is spread out across three areas, and it's very easy to miss people even if they are there. Combining these all into one would make it easier to run into people there, and also maybe give a more appropriate feeling of a small logging camp. I'm envisioning something more like the town of Skaljard. But again, I realize this is a suggestion that might not have a dramatic impact and is not without effort to implement.

[AstralUniverse]

Hmm!

I now suddenly recall reading some time ago about an approved suggestion to turn all the Caravans into the Cordor-Tower caravan type. for context, it means that instead of having to buy tickets and wait, you'd just wait for the right hour (every 3 hours including night time) and be able to just get out of there at any point during that hour. If the caravan in the logging camp can take me to the city every 3 IG hours for 50 coins for the entire hour duration, it would also be sweet and address the problem well enough. Assuming of course that caravans will also become more frequent when the change to time happens.