Quarterbreaking Feedback

[Rei_Jin]

Let me say pre-emptively here that I'm not, nor have I ever been a QBer, I've only ever been a victim of it, so that no doubt colours my experience. I'll also say that I'm posting this as I was just broken into, so it's fresh in my mind.

I appreciate the rules changes around QBing of late, as it makes it less likely that folks will go on a mass QBing rampage and mess up entire settlements.

At the moment though, two things come to mind.

1. There is no RP requirement for those QBing.
- What I mean by this, is that whilst PvP requires roleplay, someone can break into a home and take one item, but they are not required to leave a note, a clue, a hint, a token, or anything else. They're not required to contact their victim either before or after the event either. Even an assassin must contact their victim beforehand to let them know that they're marked. This disparity seems counter to the intention of the server as a roleplay server.

2. At the moment, there are almost no tools for those who have been broken into to learn more about their assailant.
- Whilst we can use -investigate to attempt to get some information about whoever broke in to our home, even with a good spot/search skill and a decent number of bonuses, it's unlikely that you'll turn up much information if any when it's being done by a dedicated QBer... with my current situation I found tracks, but those tracks told me absolutely nothing, and investigate only told me to look for someone lingering. And that's with a fairly high "find tracks" score. As far as I can tell, I was robbed by a ghost who had to use the door to get in for some unknown reason.

These two issues combine to mean that QBing is basically free money for those who commit it at the top end, with minimal risk (especially if they metagame by checking the player portal before attempting to break in), and those who are broken into will, in most cases, have no means of responding to it other than to shrug and move on.

If the QBing system is to continue to exist, it would be good for these issues to be addressed.

At least when the Coinpeckers were breaking in, they left a token.

[msheeler]

Was anything taken?

I have a QBer and here is what I do -

• Sometimes I open a door, look and leave. I don't touch anything aside from open a chest, look at fixtures, and look on bookshelves in an attempt to determine what kind of person might be living there. In these cases I simply leave the information found up to the game mechanics.
• Other times I want someone to know that someone was there (for my own reasons). In those cases I typically start by leaving a notice on the door that might give some clue to the property owner, as well as they have the game mechanics. I may also leave a notice inside the chest.
• On a very rare occasion I actually take something from the chest. This has almost always (aside from maybe once or twice) been something mundane like a pile of coal or something. In this case I definitely leave a notice also in the chest with a possible clue.

[Ork]

I really do think we've exhausted this topic as a community. You'll find the vast majority of players agree with you, Rei_jin. Quarterbreakers hold all the power in the dynamic and should have a higher level of responsibility in producing roleplay from their chosen activity. Unfortunately, this remains squarely in the hands of Irongron in changing how the server enforces quarterbreaking. It has improved, but the expectation of roleplay in all PvP should be consist across all modes like pickpocketing and quarterbreaking.

[Rei_Jin]

Was anything taken?

Yes, something was taken from a chest... it's not even that the item was taken that I dislike (although it's a bother). It's that there's no roleplay generated by it.

A QBer takes something. Leave a note? There's space for it now. Put a sign next to the chest saying that I should get better locks (not that such is mechanically possible for me)? Do something so that I have something I can do IC other than simply go out and replace the item(s) taken, which is simply another busy-work task for me to accomplish.

Because, sure, I could go to the message boards IG and whine about it, and ask for the return of my stolen crafting components. Or I could hire an investigator... no, wait, I can't, because the server resets so often that by the time I've lined one up, any evidence is cleared.

When I was living in the Arcane Tower and I was robbed by the Coinpeckers (who took a full lesser herbalists bag, back when such was legal), they left a pin with their symbol on it. They posted notes about their thievery on town message boards, they offered all sorts of RP interaction. So, the loss was a bother, but at least there was roleplay generated.

Now? I can't put my locks up to 130 every reset and pay the "no theft" tax, as I view it. I have no way to stop a dedicated QBer getting into my quarters and taking whatever they want, other than being online 24/7 and guarding my home (Viable? No). And they can do whatever they like with virtual impunity.

[I will never sleep]

You will not have much luck going on about this.

Until the staff changes their policy on it, you will just have to think about how much fun roleplay the thief is having with your things.

[Ebonstar]

Why dont players who have these builds have to earn a token just like assassins or other special characters?

or put quarterbreakers behind an award and make it something that just any Tom, Pufferfish, or Judy can make simply because they can.

If players are going to put in effort to create these type, they should have to put in the extra effort by earning the right to play them instead of just being a mechanical nuisance.

[xanrael]

I'd be curious to see the stats on number of doors "broken into" over the past year and how it was distributed (if it was split roughly evenly or the same homes had many repeat break-ins). I don't know if that data is easily available though.

[Gilbert K]

Hot Take: QBers are already held to a higher standard of roleplay. You just don't see it.

What happens is that the victim will realize that his quarter has been broken into, then get paranoid that the thief has somehow broken the rules. So after bumping up the DC on that already insanely-high lock and making a salty forum post with no real solution suggested to their perceived slight, they will inevitably make a report to the DMs (as is their right!).

An investigation will follow at the DMs' convenience, upon which the thief in question will have their roleplay evaluated. Keep in mind: The DMs will NEVER discuss the particulars of any punitive action taken against another player (thankfully), so even if you, as a victim of theft, never have the satisfaction of knowing whether the IC crimes against you were fair game, I suggest you learn to take it in stride. Point being, though, the spotlight is then on the thief's roleplay whether you know it or not.

[AstralUniverse]

Quarter Breaking should at least require some RP. Builds who can QB 127 DC on their own shouldnt exist.

[Nurel]

Quarter Breaking should at least require some RP. Builds who can QB 127 DC on their own shouldnt exist.

With the current state of Bard, they are able to solo speed level to 30 and to perform solo quarter breaking. It feels it is a matter of time before everyone will have a solo QB bard character in their vault, for the wrong reasons.

The worst thing about it is, a bard is traditionally one of the most RP intensive classes. Not being able to lvl to 30 solo was one of its strengths, as people had to double down on their class choice and whip out their best RP game when creating a bard IF they were committed to hit 30 with it.

Now I think I can create a 30 bard quarterbreaker on my own and not even speak to another PC until I hit 30 and just go about busting people's houses

PS: I am not saying Bard being mechanics savvy and able to solo stuff is the main issue here. I think the main issue is Bard having Open Lock and Disable Trap as trained skills.

[Tabby]

...

Why does these post keep popping up.

Quarterbreaking is a thing, deal with it.

Put your most valuable things in the Bank. Being it gold value or just sentimental.

QB has been nerfed to 1 item, at any one house on all servers. You cannot steal from two persons.

Its really a wonderful thing that such a things as this is allowed, compared to games that do not has anything nearlike it, because devs are scared of such "hostile" actions.

[Tabby]

Why dont players who have these builds have to earn a token just like assassins or other special characters?

or put quarterbreakers behind an award and make it something that just any Tom, Pufferfish, or Judy can make simply because they can.

If players are going to put in effort to create these type, they should have to put in the extra effort by earning the right to play them instead of just being a mechanical nuisance.

This i like, which i also suggested one of the many post alike this one.
I agree on this, its a good way to control abuse, but as said, it has already been nerfed, breaking the rule could result in bans (i presume)

If this will be a thing, QB rules needs a lift up again, meaning less restrictions.

[Nurel]

My feedback concerns the Bard class and not QB as an activity. I wasn't quite sure where I should post as there are 2 relevant threads at the moment, so I just posted here

I love the bard class, but I am fearful its identity as a totally RP intensive class is in jeopardy. I suggest 2 routes

a) Make Bard not able to solo to lvl 30 like it used to be (hard)
b) Make Bard not able to solo quarterbreak (easy)

I made the post in this thread because b) is easier to implement

[Tabby]

My feedback concerns the Bard class and not QB as an activity. I wasn't quite sure where I should post as there are 2 relevant threads at the moment, so I just posted here

I love the bard class, but I am fearful its identity as a totally RP intensive class is in jeopardy. I suggest 2 routes

a) Make Bard not able to solo to lvl 30 like it used to be (hard)
b) Make Bard not able to solo quarterbreak (easy)

I made the post in this thread because b) is easier to implement

I think that post needs to be associated with the Bard thread, the OP post had some concerns regards tools to how add RP and how get tools to figure out who broke in are..

As seen with most post, its clearly spiral away from originate topic.

Im sure the devs are working hard on the "tracks" at doors to help add that as a tool.

[Hazard]

I don't mind having my quarter broken into. At all.
I don't care that there's no RP before PvP in that situation for me.


What I don't enjoy is that 1 build can solo QB. Either other builds should also be able to, or no one should be able to and it should be a group effort.

[Skarain]

What I don't enjoy is that 1 build can solo QB. Either other builds should also be able to, or no one should be able to and it should be a group effort.

*mourns in Trickery Cleric, which was made an unviable QB candidate with Domain updates*

[Draco]

Thievery will ALWAYS lead to people being upset, I get it, it happens in real life and we want the server to be fully immersive. But if you spend hours collecting materials only to have them disappear here and there till you have nothing left, what's the point of playing? I recently got hit hard by a QB'er and it made me reevaluate just how much has been stolen from the faction as a whole. It's crazy to really think about how many hours that I and others have spent playing, trying to amass gold and barely breaking a million, and then it's like there's a faction or players out there with so much and are still compelled to steal what little we have. Some people will be good about breaking into homes, some won't, you gave them the tools to do so, so expect them to do it to the full extent the rules allow them to, being a decent human being doesn't factor into it.

My advice is, DO NOT buy a quarter, you'll lose most of your gold bringing up the security when someone else just invested points and feats into Open Lock. Try to make do with the limited room provided by the bank.

[AstralUniverse]

Quarter Breaking should at least require some RP. Builds who can QB 127 DC on their own shouldnt exist.

With the current state of Bard, they are able to solo speed level to 30 and to perform solo quarter breaking. It feels it is a matter of time before everyone will have a solo QB bard character in their vault, for the wrong reasons.

The worst thing about it is, a bard is traditionally one of the most RP intensive classes. Not being able to lvl to 30 solo was one of its strengths, as people had to double down on their class choice and whip out their best RP game when creating a bard IF they were committed to hit 30 with it.

Now I think I can create a 30 bard quarterbreaker on my own and not even speak to another PC until I hit 30 and just go about busting people's houses

PS: I am not saying Bard being mechanics savvy and able to solo stuff is the main issue here. I think the main issue is Bard having Open Lock and Disable Trap as trained skills.

Well, we seem to be in full agreement on the observations but not the root of the problem. Solo QB has always been a thing. Bards could reach that DC since the dawn of Arelith afaik. The thing is, as I've mentioned in the other semi related thread about bard, is that there was always a big drawback from playing them. Leveling them would be nearly impossible solo (and remember that the more you go back in time, the slower it took to reach level 30 in general) and the outcome was that you'd just barely see solo qb builds. You'd have between 0 to maybe 1 or 2 active Solo-QBs active at a time and the problem wouldnt be as felt at the very least.

Now, in bard's current form, with *that* new fancy spellbook, even if you force the bard to multiclass rogue, they still make the same Solo QB builds as before and in order to bring things back to "controlled population" you would need to do more than eliminating pure bards from qualifying for solo-qb. Because even if they dip rogue, they still maintain the ability to solo to 30 with summons and be exceptionally useful for any party in pvp and with good survivability (high ac, improved expertise).

My point over all is that I dont think bard should eat a gigantic nerf to soloing capability, survivability, and lots of other things unrelated directly to qb, just to get to the overall goal. I think we should instead just... FINALLY... simply... remove the ability to solo-qb entirely. have it require at least 2 characters to be done. It promotes RP. it brings another filter/drawback/obstacle whatever you wanna calll it.

[Skarain]

One way to reset the playing field would be not have Pilfering Poem affect the bard itself. Then you need 2x to break. But with the ease of leveling, groups of people would just level rogue friends to the bards and we are back at square 1.

[Ork]

One way to reset the playing field would be not have Pilfering Poem affect the bard itself. Then you need 2x to break. But with the ease of leveling, groups of people would just level rogue friends to the bards and we are back at square 1.

This is a great idea.

[AstralUniverse]

One way to reset the playing field would be not have Pilfering Poem affect the bard itself. Then you need 2x to break. But with the ease of leveling, groups of people would just level rogue friends to the bards and we are back at square 1.

It's a step in the right direction but easily gamed. Songs last very long time.

[msterswrdsmn]

There are a couple areas that aren't quarters, like the birdcage, that pretty much required two people to break into. Basically, getting in these hidden areas requires a lot of ranks in certain skills or abilities that even maxed at level 30, you're probably not going to hit with some bardsong aid. And because of how skill and feat hungry bards are, its unlikely the bard themself meets the requirements to get in these areas.

Maybe something like this to prevent solo-quarterbreaking?

[xanrael]

Thievery will ALWAYS lead to people being upset, I get it, it happens in real life and we want the server to be fully immersive. But if you spend hours collecting materials only to have them disappear here and there till you have nothing left, what's the point of playing? I recently got hit hard by a QB'er and it made me reevaluate just how much has been stolen from the faction as a whole. It's crazy to really think about how many hours that I and others have spent playing, trying to amass gold and barely breaking a million, and then it's like there's a faction or players out there with so much and are still compelled to steal what little we have. Some people will be good about breaking into homes, some won't, you gave them the tools to do so, so expect them to do it to the full extent the rules allow them to, being a decent human being doesn't factor into it.

My advice is, DO NOT buy a quarter, you'll lose most of your gold bringing up the security when someone else just invested points and feats into Open Lock. Try to make do with the limited room provided by the bank.

Honest question as I know investigative methods were added to combat this but I'm assuming clues go away with resets.

Are these "confirmed" quarterbreaking events or is there also the possibility of someone with legit access choosing to turn to thievery?

Just from an ease of access sort of thing I'd imagine joining a faction to slowly siphon off goods would be a far lower bar than running a specific build. Extra bonus points if you leave a calling card in the chest to make it seem like it was an instance of quarterbreaking. Again though I'm not up-to-date on the latest investigative mechanics so this might not be possible.