E-dodge and instant attacks

[jomonog]

First, thanks for addressing this bug given that instant attacks previously ignored e-dodge.

I do question though why the fix is to treat instants as any different to other attacks and effectively still allow them a reasonable chance to bypass e-dodge? Dex is already in a fairly poor spot compared to strength. Dex divine builds arent part of the meta anymore since the change to divine shield interaction with e-dodge.

I also query how this change will work mechanically - will using an instant at the start of the attack round effectively now trigger an e-dodge activation, meaning that the next normal attack will not be avoided by e-dodge? If that's the way it works then given the prevalence of instant attacks on most meta builds and the high AB they strike then the fix could actually render e-dodge of even less value than it was before where at least you could evade one attack a round.

I feel that e-dodge just being allowed to work as it is supposed to (i.e evading the first successful attack each round, whether an instant attack or a normal attack) should be the approach and would go some way as a start to re-balancing dex versus strength builds.

[Kalopsia]

Due to how the game handles Epic Dodge, it's impossible (or very performance intensive) to determine whether it already fired in a given round. Since that (and thus making it work like you described and I originally had hoped for) was no option, we've opted to go with the current approach.

This has the advantage that Epic Dodge has a noticeable effect without singlehandedly negating core features of various classes without counterplay. Also don't worry, regular attacks are entirely unaffected by this, so in theory the feat could even prevent a regular and an instant attack in the same round if you get lucky.

[jomonog]

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. If its a coding limit rather than a balance decision I perfectly understand and am happy with the approach. I should say i have absolutely no skin in the game here anyway as im not playing any e-dodge characters presently. Appreciate it though getting looked at and addressed.

[Shadowy Reality]

A bit of a tangent here, but is there a reason why combat feats such as Knockdown, Disarm, etc, consume the e Dodge activation for that round even when they miss?

Is this impossible to fix, or is it not fixed for balance reasons?

[AstralUniverse]

A bit of a tangent here, but is there a reason why combat feats such as Knockdown, Disarm, etc, consume the e Dodge activation for that round even when they miss?

Is this impossible to fix, or is it not fixed for balance reasons?

Because they count as 'normal' attacks in relation to e-dodge. They are subject to e-dodge and always were. It is 'speical' instant attacks such as smite, elemental strike and probably whirlwind which were ignoring e-dodge entirely until now. So knockdown/disarm/called-shot working as intended.

[jomonog]

No they arent working as intended. Its always been a bug that those attacks "eat" the e-dodge activation but its base vanilla nwn so i dont think its possible to fix

[Shadowy Reality]

No they arent working as intended. Its always been a bug that those attacks "eat" the e-dodge activation but its base vanilla nwn so i dont think its possible to fix

Jomonog is correct and that is the mechanic I was referring to, it is not entirely related to the original post hence the tangent. Just to make it clear here's an example of how this works:

You have an e-dodger with 55 AC. You have someone with Improved Knockdown and 50ab.
Imagine the first attack uses Improved Knockdown and rolls 5 + 50ab - 4 IKD = 51, it should should simply miss, because it's below the AC. And indeed it does miss but it also consumes the e-dodge for 6 seconds.
This means if the second attack rolls 18 + 45ab - 4 IKD = 59, this attack will hit, possibly knocking down the e-dodger.

This is not how e-dodge is supposed to work. It is supposed to only be activated when an attack would hit and hence the second attack should fail, and e-dodge be activated (and disabled for 6 seconds).

All combat feats trigger this, Disarm, Called Shot, Knockdown. This vastly increased the changes of hitting an e-dodger, because you can simply use one of these feats in your low AB attacks to expend the e-dodge, and then your high AB attacks stand a better chance of hitting.