No one can make this armour - Sharkskin Armour

[Dreams]

Only a sea elf tailor can make this armour, therefore no one can make this armour. It's so specific that no one is going to do it. Particularly because for a sea elf you're almost always going to be going toward carpentry for the sake of making the other very specific racially locked object the Maelstrom pike.

[Amateur Hour]

It's also DC 53, which means you've got to find a sea elf who wants to invest 51 points in tailoring, which also means they have to be pretty advanced in level.

[Eira]

I have a sea elf tailor who has been trying to contact the person who is leaving messages on board posts. I'll try to be more around for you.

Though I agree, the DC could be a bit lower, as it feels very niche.

[Rei_Jin]

It’s functionally a surfacer friendly version of Draconic Leathers, and Draconic Leathers are DC 48.

I can see grounds for dropping it to the same DC, but increasing the points cost in line with Draconic Leathers.

[BlinkDelight]

It’s functionally a surfacer friendly version of Draconic Leathers, and Draconic Leathers are DC 48.

I can see grounds for dropping it to the same DC, but increasing the points cost in line with Draconic Leathers.

The difference is that anyone can just pick up and play kobolds, but aquatic elves require a limited normal award. I don’t think that any crafted item should be locked behind awards.

[Amateur Hour]

It’s functionally a surfacer friendly version of Draconic Leathers, and Draconic Leathers are DC 48.

I can see grounds for dropping it to the same DC, but increasing the points cost in line with Draconic Leathers.

The difference is that anyone can just pick up and play kobolds, but aquatic elves require a limited normal award. I don’t think that any crafted item should be locked behind awards.

I just did a little look through the wiki; it appears that the only items which are exclusively locked behind an award race (i.e. there is no non-award race that can make the item) are the sharkskin armor and the maelstrom pike, and they're both locked to aquatic elves and have high DCs. While it does make sense from a lore perspective that aquatic elves would do things completely differently than any terrestrial artisan would, they're kind of overloaded even with just these two. Tack onto that that there's additional incentive for aquatic elves to be carpenters for sailing reasons, the tailors are going to be in short supply.

[LurkingShadow]

Only a sea elf tailor can make this armour, therefore no one can make this armour. It's so specific that no one is going to do it. Particularly because for a sea elf you're almost always going to be going toward carpentry for the sake of making the other very specific racially locked object the Maelstrom pike.

What is your solution here? Open it up for everyone? With cultural tied things like this, to remove them ,is like opening pandoras box. Next would be people complaining about Arcane Archer and Dwarven Defender not being open to everyone. Need to be taken proper precautions to not open that box and undermine the setting.

[Amateur Hour]

On the other hand, strictness of racial locks can start to be very silly after a certain length of time.

My previous main was a tailor with more than 50 points invested. She was married to a wild elf tailor who got asked to make a ton of Armor of the Wilds (because that's the entire reason anyone makes a wood or wild elf tailor). She probably helped him make at least 20 sets of them over six IC years. Realistically - I say this as someone who sews in real life - she should have figured out the trick by the tenth time she worked on one.

I'm not sure what the best solution to the problem is, but the current situation bears some examination. Opening it up to water genasi might make it more reasonable; it's still locked behind an award, but not locked behind exactly ONE award option. I'd more seriously suggest it being opened up to all amphibious characters the same way certain herbalism recipes require some form of poison immunity.

[Cataclysm of Iron]

In terms of "realism" there's a case for letting characters who don't match the race for racial crafting do it with perhaps a +10-15 to the DC.

In terms of having some unique or hard to find items in the matrix and making certain crafters genuinely desirable and unique... I think it's fine as is.

[Cthuletta]

Perhaps it could be race-locked to elf, with the understanding/lore it was pioneered by aquatic elves?
That way it's not locked behind an award, but is still a racial item.

[msterswrdsmn]

Quick point:

There is not one, but two items locked behind a epic crafting DC for aquatic elves only.
One is the Sharkskin armor as mentioned in this thread.
The other is the Maelstrom spear

Maelstrom requires carpentry ranks and Sharkskin requires tailoring.

Even if one item can be made by a player, the chances of finding the other are incredibly unlikely. I've long since given up on the idea of finding a maelstrom spear ever IG

This is a bit different than most racially locked items, as aquatic elves are locked behind a normal reward and are rather rare as a result, whereas something like draconic armor has a very sizable kobold playerbase to draw from.

Racial crafting cannot be circumvented by loremasters, as that ability is class-crafting only

[LurkingShadow]

On the other hand, strictness of racial locks can start to be very silly after a certain length of time.

My previous main was a tailor with more than 50 points invested. She was married to a wild elf tailor who got asked to make a ton of Armor of the Wilds (because that's the entire reason anyone makes a wood or wild elf tailor). She probably helped him make at least 20 sets of them over six IC years. Realistically - I say this as someone who sews in real life - she should have figured out the trick by the tenth time she worked on one.

I'm not sure what the best solution to the problem is, but the current situation bears some examination. Opening it up to water genasi might make it more reasonable; it's still locked behind an award, but not locked behind exactly ONE award option. I'd more seriously suggest it being opened up to all amphibious characters the same way certain herbalism recipes require some form of poison immunity.

Perhaps some kind of automatic system that sees if someone made them? Like this previous main being a tailor. Had she finished...lets say five of these. She will get the recipe.

Or

In terms of "realism" there's a case for letting characters who don't match the race for racial crafting do it with perhaps a +10-15 to the DC.

In terms of having some unique or hard to find items in the matrix and making certain crafters genuinely desirable and unique... I think it's fine as is.

This would also perhaps work. Aslong as its still unique. I think the uniqueness of the races and their culture still need to be a thing, no matter how rare it is.

Perhaps it could be race-locked to elf, with the understanding/lore it was pioneered by aquatic elves?
That way it's not locked behind an award, but is still a racial item.

THis also keeps it unique even if it takes away a bit of the rarity for Aquatics.

[RedGiant]

Simple: Open racial crafting to loremasters. Ooor...if that isn't tax enough, grant racial crafting to 'gift of crafting' so that you would have to take both to be able to get the full benefit.

[Eyeliner]

I do like the idea of adding many dozens of niche items that only a certain race could make, and if no one's making them you're not getting one. That would make them feel more like special artifacts instead of the same gear everyone else has. The only thing is the items would probably have to have more attainable variations or equivalents so they're more unique in a story than mechanical way.

[Quidix]

I agree allowing access to racial crafts through some other form would be nice. That said, Loremaster already has a lot of RP cookies. Can we at least allow other class some form of access too?

I'd suggest making two feats to unlock racial (epic) and class (general) recipes, respectively.

[yom]

What about adding a "blueprint" item either via drop, or crafted by said race/loremasters? The blueprint could allow a non-race crafter to create said item. It uses up the blueprint during creation and has it's own requirements that would still allow the racial crafter the convenience and niche to be the better choice but won't mean waiting for a particular race that happens to have those trade skills.