The Problem With Soulhaven...

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Yma23
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The Problem With Soulhaven...

Post by Yma23 »

I was talking to a friend about Soulhaven, and how it's a shame that there never seems to be much going on there, not much of a 'community.' And we were wondering why... I think I came up with part of an answer.

So Soulhaven is a really neat area conceptually, and it's beautifully built too. But in my mind it has one, huge problem...

Soulhaven's "vibe" is of a medievil abby. Think Cadfael books. Western, christian monks gathered together mostly in solemn meditation, prayer, aestetacism, and contemplation, with a bit of learning and scribing on the side. Sure there's the martial aspect, that exists, but it's all decked out in that style, repleate with loverly kitchen guardens, people wearing grey habbits, and tonsures.

And to be clear- this is great! I love this as a vibe! There's honestly some really cool, interesting roleplay to be had around this. This is the first thing, before I got into DnD, I thought of as a 'Monk.'

But the problem we run into is that DnDs monk isn't this.

DnD monk is Jackie Chan, Kung-fu-Panda, and so on. It is very strongly based on the idea of eastern philosophy, of bum-kicking unarmed combat, and the (roughly) chineese astetic.(1)

Cool though current Soulhaven's vibe is, it is NOT this. There are overlaps, for sure - but they arn't the same.

So lets say I want to play the more western style monk vibe - I'm thinking Cadfael sort, habit, tonsure, lots of prayers, offering sanctuary to people, so on, so forth... Well Soulhaven has the perfect vibe, sure! But... I can't live there unless I have 'can kill you with a single punch' abilities of a martial monk. That's wierd, right?

Likewise if I want to really get into the whole very steryotypical vibe of being a DnD monk - with deep philosophy, cool fighting, amazing feats of unarmed physical fighting - Soulhaven to me doesn't... -quite- fit, in my opinion.

I'm not entirely sure of how to 'fix' this - or even if It maybe needs fixing? I'm kinda curious on the community's opinion. I do REALLY love Soulhaven's whole vibe, it's beautifully constructed and I don't want it to go away... but at the same time I'm not sure if it quite fits the class it's supposed to be dedicated to?

The only answer I can think of myself - that's easy to implement at least - is to simply open up the Classes on all the quarters to Clerics (and maybe lore masters?). That brings it more into the whole religious aspect that it feels it fits? There's always rooms empty in it, so I'm not too concerned about Monk Pcs suddenly having 'no where to live.' It might encourage it to be more of a community based around the 'feel' of the area.

But I'd be really interested in seeing what other people think? If no other ideas pop up, I'll put the above up for suggestion.

(1) I'm sure there's a conversation about things like cultural respect, accuracy, and so forth to be had here. But this isn't the place. It's what it is.

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Edens_Fall
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Re: The Problem With Soulhaven...

Post by Edens_Fall »

I never really grasped the rules(?) around soulhaven myself. Like does it fall under settlement laws? Is their a ruling body? can the place offer sanctuary? Do they have a stance on the world stage? Can more then monks make use of it and if so, how do they fit in? Can any group move it to set up shop?

In the end I never really understood it enough to make use of it. Which is on me of course, for not taking the time I learn.

Last edited by Edens_Fall on Tue Jun 03, 2025 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ping14
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Re: The Problem With Soulhaven...

Post by Ping14 »

I imagine it more like the Kai Monestary in the Joe Dever's Lone Wolf setting. https://lonewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page
Its got the lore hall, crypts and everything. Even the Kai monks have some sword weilding, mace weilding people too.
They even use kai disciplines which is like the Psi counterpart to DnD. xD

Image

Its kinda nice really, don't have problem with the place being restricted to deep monks.
I always thought the lack of monks is the problem. With the upcoming monk rework, its like a the class is placed on a chopping block with the guillotine hanging above its head. I myself feel it, I made a deep monk years ago, and honestly do not want to invest more time with his concept since I know it might not be a viable build soon. (Its a gimmicky Monk/Ftr/ED).

EDIT - Upon seeing Kenji's update to the rework, WOW. I think I'm going to have a blast once that hits. The disciplines and all the stuff, it even fits the pre update concept of my dwarven monk too. Lets gooo Drunken Fist!

What would make the place livelier is maybe the addition of another class - Psionics. This fits the Arelithian's vision for the place (I think?), with the whole Kai Monastary vibe and everything. But hey, closest thing we have to psionics is Loremaster. Maybe limit it to LM 5, as some builds only go for LM 4. Maybe opening it up to Deep fighters too (12 maybe?), place is more about philosophy anyway, and who understands a weapon more than a fighter? (WM dont count, not base class >:D )

Also maybe openening it to Gith is also nice? (Githzerai > Githyanki)
Gives them an option to have a surface start since these races really dont fit anywhere currently.

Last edited by Ping14 on Mon Jun 02, 2025 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Cnaym
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Re: The Problem With Soulhaven...

Post by Cnaym »

Currently the rooms are monk exclusive, that's about it.
If you talk to the abbot at the portal, who has true sight for some weird reason (he will disguise check you even if you are invisible or sneaking and rat you out to the local guards lol) he explains that to move into the monastery or operate a shop there you have to "take the vows".

Not his vows mind you, he explicitly says that the Soulhaven doesn't really have those. I believe the vow he talks about is the vow of playing monk. Some people host gatherings there not unlike the druid circles, sometimes you get 10 people, sometimes you get 4 people, but overall it's really quiet.

Imho it could do with some warded meeting room and guest quarters. Maybe another 2-4 shops between the exit and the portal to encourage more activity. As for general vibe of the place, or making it more "existing" in the area I'd say having a vendor that goes to Guldorand during the day to sell deep wells stuff would be nice. Helps people who "for legal reasons" cannot get those from Myon.

They offer a weird service already with their coffin cages. Not sure if the monk orders fighting undead are lore accurate or made up but seeing a monk or two in dungeons with undead as a chance event would also be fun. Same for the deep wells, maybe add a climb check somewhere to find a hidden camp of one of them or a nice tent somewhere.

As for playerbase related things, groups and events. I believe that the monk rework situation is the biggest factor for why so many feel like monks are "on hold" right now. I can only recommend to make a monk and have fun with it, the class is weird but fun right now and I have no doubt it'll only get better with the work put into it :)

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