What does inclusiveness look like to you?

[In Sorrow We Trust]

I'm turning to the community here with a question that I hope will be a productive discussion and collection of good experiences and examples.

I have recently felt the need to raise this question to hear what some of you think. The question is this:

What does inclusiveness look like to you?

What does it mean?

What are some things other people have done to make you feel included, or inclined to be interested in their story?

What are some grave sins that turned you away from feeling included by someone in the past? (No names or finger-pointing, I just want to know about the experiences you have had that could apply to other situations)

Thanks.

[Xerah]

What does inclusiveness look like to you?

What does it mean?

What are some things other people have done to make you feel included, or inclined to be interested in their story?

Coming over to talk to you for no reason other than they don't know you. (I've played in a lot of places/races, and some of the best people at doing this have been the goblins)

Making sure you let people know when you're going to do something (obviously, it's not possible to let everyone know every time you're doing something)

Leaving word on how to connect with people (not too long ago, I sent a speedy to a ship captain who had never met my character since they had come from Skal, and they summoned me to the ship)

Limiting gatekeeping on faction inclusion. Pushing people up into higher ranks in the faction as soon as they show interest and engage. I will admit that there are bad actors out there who will ruin everything because they are jerks (that's what my RP would do...), but I'll still give people the benefit of the doubt as much as I can. For example, when I was running Cordor, I let everyone into the circle who wanted to be (even if I might have suspected they could be harpers or whatever), but I still restricted some of the major things (i.e. no bank access to force elections).

And just "yes, and"-ing them as much as possible. Find one thing that the character is about and make them do that thing (i.e. if you find out that the character is a chef, ask them to make you food). You could do this yourself, quicker, but I take the time to first try to get someone else to do/support a task before I might try to do it myself, even if it takes longer.

What are some grave sins that turned you away from feeling included by someone in the past?

Certain factions just seem very unwelcome to others (it might not even be true, but that's what perception is). Maybe it's the lack of promotional material. Maybe several of their characters take a very stand-off or "better than you" attitude. Maybe they are all great people, and it's just a perception because there are legit reasons for limiting things. But it can still feel quite exclusive.

Saying things like "well, we're off, nice to meet you", which might feel exclusive but I don't even think it's an issue in the majority of cases. Who know's what they're doing? Maybe they had something planned? Maybe adding you would ruin some of those plans. etc.

I generally just assume good intent in others and support them/let them do their thing. Yes, I know I can run into issues doing this, but more likely, it's going to turn out positive since the majority of the server aren't trying to screw people over.

[PowerWord Rage]

Inclusiveness is subjective but I'll say that from my point of view, it's simply enjoying interactions and rather than setting sights on bigger groups, bigger roleplay and/or ambitions, to simply find even just one like-minded PC whose RP flows alongside yourself seamlessly and that we simply enjoy each other company. Having good company promotes RP in yourself as well because at least myself, I do felt being brought into the game.

It takes time and effort though. And when more people started to enjoy your company together with your companion, inclusiveness is already with you. Pacing yourself is most important. But i'm simply speaking from my own standpoint on how i've found myself to be enjoying this game because you don't need a crowd to chase after inclusiveness but simply let it flow naturally...be it joining any organization and work from scratch i guess?

[For Sound and Silence]

I've been previously called a "solo player" because I do not play only within one settlement, with any form of preplanning, or with any intention to seek out the people I enjoyed playing with on previous characters to meet them again without it being organic and fitting to the story. I do not force roleplay to happen with the couple friends I have, and I try to reach as many groups as possible with every character within its concept. I initially got called a solo because I don't do OOC planning and just play everything for my characters IC. I imagine most people fall under this definition of "solo player", but I do also know there are people that plan entire release dates for their factions or pre-plan roleplay events to occur between their characters OOC with a step-by-step of all that will happen in the conflict between them before kicking it off IC. Either way's probably fine.

What does inclusiveness look like to you? What does it mean?

For me, inclusiveness is a willingness from myself and others to involve each other in the same collaborative story. That isn't to say you have to be "open arms" to everyone IC, but I believe there's almost always a way to involve others (including enemies of your character) either directly or indirectly through the tools provided to us as players. Fixtures, messages, including other characters as middlemen, on and on. The mechanical game itself can be played alone, but the roleplay is better with others.

What are some things other people have done to make you feel included, or inclined to be interested in their story?

Given me a chance to breathe on a new character and invited me to have room to act within the area: sitting through my character's impromptu prayer sessions, following up on messages that my characters left in areas, and even conflict characters being willing to have some back-and-forth about whatever the disagreement is. I try to give what I want to get back, and I am always happy to feel like my time is appreciated and my story is enjoyed.

What are some grave sins things that turned you away from feeling included by someone in the past? (No names or finger-pointing, I just want to know about the experiences you have had that could apply to other situations)

I will refrain from discussing specifics or from bringing up any instances that have occurred, as I do not want anybody to feel targeted.

I typically don't get bothered, but I still have limits. If I feel like my roleplay isn't clicking with someone else, I don't force it. Maybe we'll have a better chance tomorrow--or maybe they're just not interested in my character--and either reason is fine. If I'm aware of the player and see that they are just speaking their OOC opinions through IC means, I walk away. I do not want to be involved in behaviors that perpetuate a hostile environment to other players.

If I am trying to make roleplay and all I get back is my nemesis, the "ignores you" emote, or waking up to 8 fixtures bashed/missing the next day, I don't feel included in any intention of making a story, nod, and move along. I like to treat others the way that I would want to be treated, and that includes treating their storytelling and creations with respect. Bash away and steal away--but it is nice when people leave some way to react or investigate. I want to make others feel like their effort is appreciated, rather than making them feel left-out or unwanted.

If I feel that I am being disrespected as an individual, I don't get caught up trying to make people like me or force them to include me in the story. I just keep doing my thing.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

The core of the question is actually pretty simple to answer, inclusive means including others in whatever you got going on. A solid player finds a group and involves them, and a great player tends to touch everyone they come across in some way or another.

That being said, what people think is inclusiveness is often either unrealistic or flat out wrong. Which one it is often correlates to what side of the line you find yourself on, as the person who thinks they are left out or the person that thinks they are doing a good job including everyone. For a couple of easy examples, albeit not all encompassing-

Inclusive does not mean involving everyone on everything. Usually, the bigger the group the less included everyone feels. Sometimes that means that someone has to be told no, sorry, we already got a full group and that person should accept that graciously.

Being inclusive is not as simple as adding folks to your faction and more or less ignoring them going forward. It's just inflating the numbers (probably to appear inclusive), but it's unnecessary. If you want to be a leader of a great faction that means taking the time to make everyone in it feel included, and if that means you only have five members because that's all the time you have to juggle, it's better than having 15 folks where most of them feel unincluded. And if the six of you are doing cool stuff, no one is going to say "that faction seems cool, but I wish they had a larger group" lol.

[D4wN]

This is a fantastic question.

To me, it means actively supporting and empowering people with creative ideas and the drive to contribute to roleplay. As leaders of settlements or factions, you hold significant influence and with that comes the opportunity to uplift others and help generate meaningful RP.

It also means respecting the effort and dedication someone brings when they join a faction. Transparency matters. If you're part of a guard faction, for example, it shouldn’t feel like there’s a tight-knit clique of a few people hoarding all the intel. Members should feel equipped, informed, and encouraged to engage with the world around them, especially when the information directly impacts their role. Good leadership involves recognising individual passions and guiding people toward areas where they can take initiative and shine.

When information is overly guarded or leaders continually step on the toes of those who are meant to have authority in specific areas, people disengage. They leave. And with them goes the potential for great RP.

Being overly secretive within your own faction just ends up making people feel excluded. Yes, some discretion is necessary at times, but too often people hide things that don’t need to be hidden. Striking that balance is crucial. When you don’t, you lose the very players who help make your RP world vibrant.

Lastly, it’s about simple human interaction. Greet people. Acknowledge them (especially if you’re in a leadership roll!!). Invite them into DM plots when appropriate. And if things are quiet? Strike up a conversation. Ask about their character’s background, their goals, what drives them. Take a genuine interest in others, and you’ll not only build stronger connections, you’ll cultivate a more dynamic, inclusive, and enjoyable RP environment.

[In passion, patience]

Simply: to give everyone a chance to shine. Inclusiveness, to me, isn't about interacting with everyone. It's about giving everyone the opportunity to be heard, to be seen, to be praised for what they do, and to be encouraged to do more.

[Eira]

Pretty much everything Xerah said.

I also try to go out of my way to have one on one personal rp with people, because as was mentioned before, the bigger the group, the less included it feels. So I will, whether in my faction or out, try to have that secluded rp with as many others as possible, so I can give my full attention to them and focus on them and their story.

Then, based on that, I try to introduce them to others. Maybe they have a plot hook I know someone else has their character be experienced in; I try to put them together. A huge chunk of my time with my faction was making introductions.

[Emotionaloverload]

The core of the question is actually pretty simple to answer, inclusive means including others in whatever you got going on. A solid player finds a group and involves them, and a great player tends to touch everyone they come across in some way or another.

That being said, what people think is inclusiveness is often either unrealistic or flat out wrong. Which one it is often correlates to what side of the line you find yourself on, as the person who thinks they are left out or the person that thinks they are doing a good job including everyone. For a couple of easy examples, albeit not all encompassing-

Inclusive does not mean involving everyone on everything. Usually, the bigger the group the less included everyone feels. Sometimes that means that someone has to be told no, sorry, we already got a full group and that person should accept that graciously.

Being inclusive is not as simple as adding folks to your faction and more or less ignoring them going forward. It's just inflating the numbers (probably to appear inclusive), but it's unnecessary. If you want to be a leader of a great faction that means taking the time to make everyone in it feel included, and if that means you only have five members because that's all the time you have to juggle, it's better than having 15 folks where most of them feel unincluded. And if the six of you are doing cool stuff, no one is going to say "that faction seems cool, but I wish they had a larger group" lol.

All of this really. I see a lot of stories/plots IG where everyone is included all the time or expected to be. The entire faction must be on every meeting/mission/event or they feel left out. Or everything is tolerated/permitted. I find this ridiculous.

Inclusiveness is interacting with others in a way that is collaborative. That does not always mean that every interaction will be favorable, personable or friendly. It just means that you tell a story together with space enough for everyone to share theirs.

-S

[My November Guest]

I like the little stuff. Just a passing hello, and invite to adventure, a note on the door. An organic friendship on a shared dungeon raid always has the potential to be a long friendship, in and out of character.

[chocolatelover]

What are some things other people have done to make you feel included, or inclined to be interested in their story?
I have been VERY LUCKY to have run across some fantastic players who included me in the various ways other posters have mentioned. Especially when I was a new player and had no idea how an RP environment worked. (Still learning)

What are some grave sins that turned you away from feeling included by someone in the past? (No names or finger-pointing, I just want to know about the experiences you have had that could apply to other situations)

This is a very difficult one to answer.

First, there are PCs that are rude and the player is just RPing what the character would do. Sometimes, I ‘ve gotten tells from the player with a “LOL” or even “Sorry! He’s a rude person!” which for me is fine. I do know that some players do NOT like tells as it breaks immersion for them. Usually, these chance encounters are easy to get through as to what they are.

For Sound and Silence Wrote,
“but I do also know there are people that plan entire release dates for their factions or pre-plan roleplay events to occur between their characters OOC with a step-by-step of all that will happen in the conflict between them before kicking it off IC. Either way's probably fine.”

I am not sure if that is fine, but I do think I’ve run into some groups like this and it definitely did NOT feel inclusive AT ALL. It felt rather like watching a stage play only out in the open and you keep trying to get into the scene but are either dismissed or outright ignored because you don't have a Script to follow. If this is what is actually happening, perhaps these groups should consider holding their little events in private areas where onlookers are not confused about what they are supposed to do or… if they really enjoy the audience, perhaps consider performing it as a stage play.

Once I was involved with a rather hostile group. As my pc (and I) are rather conflict averse, I avoided this group as much as possible. Later one of the players told me that they were disappointed I had not interacted with them more. I found this very odd and confusing. It was as if I was supposed to act in a certain way and when I did not, they became angry and lashed out (in game) because they were OOC disappointed I did not pick up on their concept as I was new to the RP environment

Don’t forget inclusiveness in Conflict RP.

There are players who really enjoy PVP. I suppose as long as both groups are fine with bashing each other over and over they can do so.

But many players are not. If your conflict RP is simply “I kill you” or “Go away or I will kill you” or the extreme. “I will hunt you down no matter where you go to kill you”, and there is absolutely no RP options, this really isn’t collaborative storytelling or inclusive. It feels more like an OOC “I do not wish to engage with you to the point I will ruin your gameplay.”

There are players who EXCEL at Conflict RP. They are clever at deft verbal repartee and leaving dangling clues and stopping short of the end. Leave the other player with someplace to go. These players should be commended as I am sure this is one of the most difficult things to do in RP.

[Ruzuke]

For me the inclusive RP is the person who can weave others into a story. This is not always a friend, but acknowledging, responding, including the person into the conversation, so the person is not an extra watching a scene, but able to partake in it. Those who welcome new heroes and villains. Give thought to new ideas and allow others to build their own RP.

What ruins RP is Gatekeeping and this takes many forms. Perhaps your group wants to investigate an issue, but everyone says the mystery is already solved 100 years ago and just read a book about it and take no action. That is the extreme, but it is the actions which reduce characters to watching the story rather than partaking in it. They are reduced to extras to bask in the glory of those who do.

[Beefcake]

I also try to go out of my way to have one on one personal rp with people, because as was mentioned before, the bigger the group, the less included it feels. So I will, whether in my faction or out, try to have that secluded rp with as many others as possible, so I can give my full attention to them and focus on them and their story.

Then, based on that, I try to introduce them to others. Maybe they have a plot hook I know someone else has their character be experienced in; I try to put them together. A huge chunk of my time with my faction was making introductions.

My feelings mirror this completely.

It also has to do with me getting older too and no longer being able to have a character maintain 6 distinct conversations at once with people in a large group as the chat window is scrolling 100 miles per hour like I used to over 15 years ago (crimony, yeah...I have been around for too long).

But I have also found that one on one or at most up to 4 people in a group is about the maximum you can do with personal "deep" RP where everyone is included.

Lighter RP or setting up small adventures or events I definitely try to bring in others, especially those who may just be milling about nearby, where all can be included in some capacity and do something. It is a great way to meet new people!

[But Will It Blend]

So. There's a lot of good mentions here on ways to increase inclusivity. I'm going to point to a few things that I've found that have kind of killed my vibe on characters, groups, and factions.

Won't name names, but on many, many occasions I've had my characters thrown under the bus or to the wolves, after helping people constantly, putting in the work, trying to be helpful and supportive ICly and OOCly purely because I'm not in the OOC friend group, so my characters have more or less been treated/seen as entirely expendable, even by 'good' factions.

This has on a few occasions entirely killed any desire to play characters when you put in a lot of work, are friends ICly, but somehow the OOC friend gets help even when it's ICly inconsistent, but the person who has ICly been there the whole time is kinda screwed over because they aren't part of the clique.

It's happened dozens of times.

The other one: When somebody gives you a win? Don't be shitty about it.

I've had numerous times where I've given team good or team evil a win, or chose to stay dead as a means of trying to add gravity to a major plot point only to have people OOCly high fiving, otherwise acting like shit towards me OOCly, or sweeping any negative repercussions to things like extrajudicial murder under the rug even as paladins purely because it's their IC and OOC friend and screw the evil person why would we care. It's made me never want to do it again and that's not a good mind set to have.

IDK. I intentionally avoid making friend groups to avoid the OOC nature the game tends to provide. But that's been one of the biggest downsides I've ever come across.

[Darkstorn42]

This is a fantastic topic, and I truly believe inclusiveness is something we should all be striving for in our community.

I agree with Babylon System is the Vampire that the goal should, fundamentally, be to make people feel included. Whether this is in your story, in your settlement/faction, or even just in the world. However, just saying that isn't really all that helpful. So I will give an examples of something I have/currently do to try to aid with this.

First thing to keep in mind is that every character is different, but there is always a human beyond that character. With that in mind, if I am playing a snooty/aloof character it is important to acknowledge someone else's presence even if you are ignoring them. RP glaring at them or turning your nose at them. Engage with them, even if it isn't words.

I had a shy character that was scared of someone, so I was constantly RPing looking at them when they had their back to me, but avoiding their glance when they turned their back. It was pretty great because our two characters never directly spoke to each other, but we had a richness of interaction that I think about from time to time.

It also shouldn't be a single 'He ignores Jonny', but more in depth like 'A glance at Jonny. Their eyes go down and up and then they pointedly turn their head away.' This OOC invites a player to interact without having to IC invite them. If they do engage, make sure to continue with it. Never a one-and-done.

I just really wanted to talk about non-verbal interactions as a way to create inclusiveness. Of course going up and talking to people is fine, but sometimes that just isn't a character's vibe.

(P.S. No shade to any PC's named Jonny, it was chosen to be a generic name)

[Marsi]

It's easy to think about inclusivity from the perspective of someone who has the power to include or exclude -- someone at the apex of their power, a faction or settlement leader, etc.

But you really get to assess someone's character in that time that they dont have power, when they need attention, they need something from someone more powerful.

When you're weak, vulnerable, and irrelevant -- would you still give space to others and acknowledge their role-play, even if they weren't the most important person in the room? Will you treat the world and the characters around you as if they're really there even if doing so won't advance your interests (or maybe even slow you down)? Or, do you just give in to that rabid striver energy and lock in on the DM NPC or settlement leader?

Being inclusive and paying it forward is actually a secret power. By focusing only on the most important characters of the day, you're guaranteeing irrelevance when you finally get to the top. Someone taking it slow and investing laterally and down is building rapport among their actual peers.

[Dovesong]

To me:

If you have to resort to PVP to silence an opponent? You're doing it Wrong. You have a Win mentality, and you need to re-evaluate.

If you have to resort to driving "rivals" off without speaking to them IC? You're doing it Wrong. You have a Win mentality, and you need to re-evaluate.

If you are not willing to bend -at all- because it might reduce your power? You're doing it Wrong. You have a Win mentality, and you need to re-evaluate.

[Dreams]

Without going too deeply into this, I think generally approaching roleplay with a "yes, and" theatresports technique, you'll always end up providing a space for other people to tell their stories alongside yours.

[Cnaym]

Two lil things that I do trying to be inclusive - offer random aid to strangers. We're arell playing an "adventurer" of sorts, so even giving directions or offering potions and such can go a long way to make a new player doing writs less lonely on the server. They usually even come back for more RP

Be active when I play, even if I just follow around people who pass by via turning my character around. Imho nothing gives a "we busy and dun got time for you vibe" than the 3 fully warded unmoving, whispering folks in the corner of the plaza. If it's important enough to whisper, it probably is important enough not to speak about it in public. That's what all the funny houses are for I think.

Two lil things that I really like to see is when people take you along, even if you have little to no reason to be included - The amount of times guard players allowed me to tag along as translator just to have nothing to translate but still get a nice storry is a great indicator over which guards are going to grow and which aren't ^_^

The fancy flyers of some factions, from Cordor Care looking for writ helpers to Shyvala (sorry I will never know how to write your house name right) posting a "looking for slaves" posters on Skal. You're making the world feel lived in, rather than visited

[stop bullying bards]

hello in sorrow we trust,

this topic is something i think a bit interesting to approach. from my personal experience on the server i feel more included, the less 'directly' included i find myself. my personal paths have had me in factions that use discord, and, factions that use strict in game communication methods. this goes between settlement work, private faction things, and even taverns on the persistent world, arelith.

i will answer your questions in order, to build my thoughts out.
What does inclusiveness look like to you?
this looks like roleplay. interactions can be 'bad' or 'good' for my character, but it ensures i have roleplay. this can be seen as:
joining groups, and having players/characters who are interested in the story web you are spinning
active in settlements, and becoming one of the characters that people know they can approach for certain roleplay moments or activities
activity in specific fields of focus: this one is broad by Design because it can be 'playing a merchant' or 'being a sailor' or 'good at X activity'
following anything similar to that, assures someone can be included in more roleplay avenues. inclusiveness to me is activity, story generation, and giving players your time, to receive back interesting moments and roleplay in equal turn.

i enjoyed xerah's comments also on:
Coming over to talk to you for no reason other than they don't know you.

What does it mean?
if i understand this question, it reads like 'what does it[inclusiveness] mean?'
being inclusive is ensuring characters designed for specific niche roleplay moments, are offered their share of moments.
it means that people who run factions, will include
it works through in character interactions, held on the server, that improve the quality of a character's life through giving the player behind the character, more reasons to log in and want to stick around

What are some things other people have done to make you feel included, or inclined to be interested in their story?
i enjoy when people have consistent enough schedules of play through a life cycle of one of my characters, and they will send me wisps, or hins, or goblins for the sake of creating or furthering roleplay between characters. when you can see a character or members of a faction more, it is easier to feel more included.

What are some grave sins that turned you away from feeling included by someone in the past?
my personal sorrows with being inclusive is when OOC communication (discord, sending irl letters, skype, smoke signals) is used to coerce a character into existence that otherwise would not be around. i have always started to feel worse, or uninspired, in situations where community becomes OOC communications rather than someone having the time and desire to play on the persistent world, arelith.

becoming 'too inclusive' to where arelith feels more like an MMO (massively multiplayer online game) instead of a NWN persistent world, often feels like a detriment rather than a path toward better story telling.

its a lot to say that i think being inclusive starts with being characters, activity in hub sections of Arelith, and giving characters means/ability to approach you to generate more sections to the web of story. when things become too OOC, or when people aren't willing to return attention via smaller-roleplay moments, i feel Excluded rather than Included.

[msterswrdsmn]

Two things I considered when trying to be inclusive with my roleplay.

1. How can I include as many people as possible.

Pretty straighforward and similar to what a lot of other people have already said. Being flexible with my roleplay, to the point where I'd bend (not completely break, but bend) some of my characters ideas and concepts. This isn't necessary a bad thing; sometimes bending led to some surprising character growth.

Note: Finding ways to include other people does NOT always being being friendly. Interacting with other people and factions in an antagonistic role without destroying the fun for the other side was very important.

I guess you could consider inclusion an extension of good emoting versus god emoting. Rather than emoting something, like I reach, grabbing the puny elfs neck and snapping it like a twig, a more inclusive and productive way to play would be to emote something like I reach out, screaming in blind hatred as my hand races towards the elfs throat. The first way leaves no wiggle room as to what happend and consequently, isn't very fun for the elf. The second option lets the elf react however they want.

Playing with largely inclusive roleplay is like that, but on a larger scale. How do I go about doing things that, while not necessarily friendly, let people not just react, but interact with what i'm doing? Likewise, how should I interact with their attempts to roleplay in a way that is overall positive (OOCly, not necessarily ICly)

2. Not needing to be the winner

I can't emphasis this enough, but sometimes loosing is the best option to develop a storyline or a character.

[D4wN]

Not needing to be a winner's been brought up a few times and I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I've actually experienced some of the greatest character developments personally from losing. As soon as we stop thinking about winning or losing, we win this game that is a Roleplaying game.

[The Vandals of Rome]

Good faith.

The moment I see assumptions being made about the motives of other players OOC I bounce from factions or groups.

Complaints of exclusion are something I most often observe in players who have started making assumptions about the motives of others. Bad actors do exist but most players are well intentioned. Let them cook and you'll see what they're going for.

You will have a 1000% better time if you ignore who plays who, what clique they may or may not be in, what their OOC angle is. The worst thing that can happen is you gotta move on. It's good to treat things like they matter a lot IC but you know. I'll be taking what you put on the page as seriously as you are.

But that goes both ways.

Sometimes I am gonna flip hostile and one of us is gonna die. I don't agree that perpetual in character tolerance is inherently inclusive. You should "yes, and" but in character you do me a disservice if you never take the gloves off. Just take what you're doing seriously.

[PowerWord Rage]

So...Never needing to be a Winner keeps getting brought up and prompts me to post again.

Playing to win something, isn't a terrible or wrong thing and shouldn't be frowned upon.
However, to resort to terrible playstyle that destroy and hurt other people's stories and even sacrifices other people's trust and reliance on you so that you can win which I will see that as an obsession to win, is the actual problem and also often, a result of poor sportsmanship.

It's simply unrealistic for a game not to have a win or lose and it's also unhealthy for a normal person to actually -not- care about winning or losing because that are usually intentionally forced willingly or not.
And to keep on stressing on every other parties not to win but to lose, and that losing will have great RP is quite an interesting mentality because it means that winning or losing is always on your mind?

I'll encourage everyone who is involved in any conflict to just follow and play along what happens, had happened, and be more gracious to accept that, move on. Sometimes it's not actually the winning mentality but a person's desperate struggle to want to have their story keep moving, and not actually be killed because they are simply not willing.
And finally, a person losing the conflict does not actually mean that he lost.
Some players simply want to lose, and roll their character because it's the ending that they chose and to them, they need to lose so that they can win.
Such circumstances are usually the best because everyone is winner but it's impossible to happen for everyone and typically a bad example for comparison.

Edit: I've a pretty bad habit to edit my post after it's posted for the first few minutes or hours because I do re-read them and edit them when i felt that it didn't convey what i wanted and i'll apologize if there were any misinterpretation.

[msterswrdsmn]

^ I probably should have clarified a little more

By all means, play to win ICly. It doesn't make much sense to make a character with the entire motive is to loose for that character.

It's the OOC "win at all costs" mentality that makes things terrible. I had this mindset very, very early on when I first started playing and I realized very quickly it just made me a jerk.

Play a character with real motives and goals, but be flexible and have a backup plan if those plans don't work out.

This isn't just for conflict either. Sometimes little details in your characters concept might need tweaking. Terry, my artifacter, would have really elaborate ways of explaining why he had the equivalent of guns, grenades, artificial intelligence, and robots in Arelith's setting. And you know what? There wasn't a single thing forcing other people to play along with any of that beyond what I could BS mechanically. I did get called out on it several times, and you know what? Theres nothing wrong with that; Arelith has very much had a "you get what you see" rule, and I can't sit there (nor was it productive) to go "No, thats not a dire animal. ITS REALLY A GOLEM GUYS, REALLY!"

Sometimes people will take critiques on a character concept as a personal attack. Some people WILL use critiques to make personal attacks. Have a backup plan if people don't want to play along and don't take (or make) anything personal.

That, more than grand PVP battles, was a truly toxic "win at all cost" issue that I ran into. It not just a mindset of always having to win every IG conflict, but ALSO the mindset of always having to win every OOC disagreement and needing to always be right.