Outcast recognition

[WinkinBlinkin]

I think it would be awesome if instead diviners could somehow sense how much time people spent in the Underdark or on the Surface. It could maybe give the Deck of Stars some extra functionality.

[Irongron]

I think there has always been a lack of clarity over what an outcast living in the Underdark is, how they are so widely known, and in what manner they should be treated by other characters, so I'll try to explain as best I can.

An outcast is an individual that for some reason is considered an 'undesirable' by the common folk living on Arelith. By modern terms the population of the isle is not far beyond that of a large town; one does not have to be a notorious world famous evil-doer to become a persona non grata in such an environment, especially on an island.

Yes, the reason for their status could be some terrible evil they commited, but it could equally be based on scandal, lineage, disfigurement, speculation, falsehood or even just outright discrimination.. In short - they are not obliged to be roleplayed as monsters, indeed their story could be a tragic one.

This update reflects that those integrated into the society of Arelith, and its common folk, will soon to come to learn of the common outlooks concerning some individuals. They are not expected to know the exact reasons why the outcast has that status, only that they are the subject of ugly rumour and are someone that has come to be, at best, shunned, or at worst, the target of pitch-fork wielding lynch mobs.

Outcasts, therefore, find themselves driven into the underworld, quite literally. They are not barred from the surface, or the Underdark, and have a largely unique status in being able to travese the two. The cost is that that they are not truly accepted in either, Underdarkers are most certainly prejudice towards surface races, while those on the surface are deeply suspicious of them.

I find the concept of an outcast a fun one to play. It requires one to build a story around the character, and to act as a bridge, in game, between the two worlds.

Overall the key point I would like to make to the players of those recognising an outcast is that you are NOT required to share the common view of an outcast. It may be you are sympathetic to their plight, or by virtue of your faith wish to minister to their community. It is, however, important to know that in doing so you go against the common will. Your neighbours might come to distrust you, NPC guards my abandon their posts in disgust, or settlement leaders petitioned to take action against the perceived threat.

For a long time now we have seen outcasts happily mingling outside the Nomad in one moment, while doing the same in the Underdark the next. It should not take me to say that is clearly against the founding concept of having selected the status of 'outcast'.

For myself this was a choice between mechanically limiting outcasts further by restricting portal and NPC access, or putting in the hands of the players to roleplay according to their own judgement and character concept.

Whether it is pirates, knights, harpers or outcasts, the description tag is not an ideal mechanism, but in all cases it exists to foster appropriate roleplay.

It should of course be clear from the very term 'Outcast' that a character is generally recognised as such.

Finally the point of 'losing' the outcast status. The problem here is that no matter what proof one produces, what great deeds are accomplished, it can be hard to shift public opinion. I would tentatively suggest that if a player earns the Epic Reputation Feat, and has a track record of heroism they should be able to petition the DMs for that status to be removed. Conversely DMS have it in their toolbag to place the outcast status on a surface PC whose misdeeds have reach the point where they find themselves universally reviled.

[Iceborn]

The nature of the outcasts is as much IC as it is OOC - in regards of how they work in a game-world server.
Trying to see it from an entirely IC point of view is not entirely ridiculous, but we have to draw a line here. There are millions of things that we have to constantly justify ourselves as players in order to maintain our immersion in the game (healing kit abuse, respawns, the lack of tieflings and genasi whereas they should be far more common, elves and dwarves being far more corrupt or evil than what you would usually expect, etc, etc)

This is merely one more challenge in a practically endless streak of trivialities that we need to simply overcome.
Though I am perfectly okay with non-outcast characters having to invest in some skill or specific class to recognize openly Outcast characters.


To explain myself better, we are leaning on one of the many walls that require a little of suspension of disbelief, and I find the potential to call out an outcast character - or blackmail with the awareness of their situation - far more interesting than otherwise plainly pretending it's not there to play UD/Surface buddies with no restrain or consequence whatsoever.

[Chair]

Irongron, some of us don't really mind the whole tag thing. But the fact that it only applies to SURFACE settlements is kinda.. A very weird distinction you know? It honestly should be extended to the Underdark settlements as well.

[Irongron]

Irongron, some of us don't really mind the whole tag thing. But the fact that it only applies to SURFACE settlements is kinda.. A very weird distinction you know? It honestly should be extended to the Underdark settlements as well.

We won't do this. Andunor is an Upperdark trading city, used to visitors, traders and spies from the surface world. It is not reasonable to expect the reason behind every visitors arrival to be the subject of common knowledge. It is also an entirely different society, with little or no connection to the commonfolk in the towns and cities above.

If you wish to discover if one is an outcast I would consider this an opportunity for intelligence gathering, via informants in surface settlements, or by engaging the outcast in meaningful roleplay. We could in addition to this update, tie outcast recognition to the lore skill for everyone else but I would prefer not to do that; better such knowledge is learned via RP and interaction than a simple, and predictable mechanic.

[Nymann]

Was not relevant at all.

[Lady Astray]

I think there has long been too much incentive to roll a human over more interesting races due to the mechanical advantages they get. They choose which ability score to increase, get a free feat, and extra skill points, with no real penalties. Almost every build in the cookie cutter guide is human, many of them flat out don't work as well if you pick a non-human because you absolutely need every single feat. I've seen non-humans pull some of them off but they always end up with less AC or discipline or something as a result.

Underdwellers have had even more incentive to just roll humans since it allowed them to blend into surface settlements without even using disguise or investing skill points in bluff/perform. Often you'd see one of the most notorious baddies walking around alone in a settlement undisguised but no one would want to mess with them because they'd feel like they were metagaming. I've seen plenty of underdwellers complaining on the forums and in discord about there being too many humans down below. Hopefully now more people will roll actual monster races, in fact I plan to do so myself in the future.

I like this change and think it will be good for the entire server, not just the surface.

[Nymann]

No longer will UD outcasts be able to attack a settlement and walk in same settlement harmfree 2 OOC hours later without being in disguise... Thank you so much Irongron... <3

[Nitro]

I strongly dislike the recent-ish trend of putting more and more tags in characters description. I think it's incredibly dull to create artificial polarization because everyone knows person X is a pirate/outcast/knight or what have you rather than having to RP and actually interact with them to find out what they are.

If you wish to discover if one is an outcast I would consider this an opportunity for intelligence gathering, via informants in surface settlements, or by engaging the outcast in meaningful roleplay. We could in addition to this update, tie outcast recognition to the lore skill for everyone else but I would prefer not to do that; better such knowledge is learned via RP and interaction than a simple, and predictable mechanic.

I think this should be the default state for everyone, not more mechanical brands, tags, badges or other marks that automatically give away characters affiliations with 0 RP or interaction.

[Petrifictus]

I'm really happy with this update as it was long needed. Thank you for the good news!
Hopefully this will make people choose to play actual monster or any other Underdark race instead of boring humans.

Beast King Karstaag approves +15.

[Iceborn]

I strongly dislike the recent-ish trend of putting more and more tags in characters description. I think it's incredibly dull to create artificial polarization because everyone knows person X is a pirate/outcast/knight or what have you rather than having to RP and actually interact with them to find out what they are.

If you wish to discover if one is an outcast I would consider this an opportunity for intelligence gathering, via informants in surface settlements, or by engaging the outcast in meaningful roleplay. We could in addition to this update, tie outcast recognition to the lore skill for everyone else but I would prefer not to do that; better such knowledge is learned via RP and interaction than a simple, and predictable mechanic.

I think this should be the default state for everyone, not more mechanical brands, tags, badges or other marks that automatically give away characters affiliations with 0 RP or interaction.

The thing is, and not to stomp my foot over and over again, the devs wouldn't be so inclined to label everything, if the players weren't as inclined to disregard what should be some very large labels on their characters.

[MissEvelyn]

This is indeed a much-needed, long overdue change. I can only echo what others have said and how it will help foster an understand of what it truly means to be an outcast.

The descriptive warning when picking the Outcast background is especially a good addition.

As Lady Astray mentioned, there's way too much mechanical incentive to pick human over anything else - especially in the Underdark. I hope this change will let people consider more carefully when picking a human in the UD - and hopefully we'll see more non-human Underdarkers after this =)

The thing is, and not to stomp my foot over and over again, the devs wouldn't be so inclined to label everything, if the players weren't as inclined to disregard what should be some very large labels on their characters.

Also this. +1

[Echohawk]

Surfacers got plenty of beef even before this change went in. To those who have been in the UD usually just talking to someone in the trade tongue was enough to spot a new, bright eyed, wandering fool in their midst. And if someone was from the surface as such usually they had to put up or expect to get run out by the local denizens.

Surfacers are also 'average joes' so their notable existence is that they're boring, not notable. They would bear no mark.
The only thing I could suggest is some sort of outcast marking that's recognizable universally. I'm not certain why it was limited to only those with surface settlement citizenship. Even pirates are recognizable by anyone with the appropriate skills to do so.

[miesny_jez]

I really hope that Surface Settlements will want to step up and do their job of shunning any Outcasts they see right now.

So... takeout those pitchforks and raise them high Cordor Guard.. we the UD players count on new actual Monster characters!

I think this was long overdue and a step in a very good direction thanks Irongorn.

If You want to play team Evil.. create EVIL character.
If You want to play EVIL with free perks You have to consider the consequences in Your RP be it Warlock, Necromancer or an Outcast.

[TimeAdept]

Even more, how do you know someone is an Outcast without actually knowing the person? You don't know names and can't metagame the floating tag, yet you know they are a villain,for doing... something, and you can indelibly recognize this among every single outcast despite never having met them, ever, or knowing what they actually did. Which is something that could/would GREATLY inform your PC's reaction to them - but the only way to discover this is through a lengthy OOC discussion with a PC who may not want to be revealing these story and plot details in an OOC tell for the same of a quick reaction IC to someone who doesn't even know who they're looking at beyond "Outcast".

No one seems to have addressed this.

Even if we presume that every settlement has a couple hundred Jesse James style wanted posters sitting around, how do we reconcile the fact that every single settlement knows every single Outcast, upon creation, regardless of their actual past history or actions?

I picked Outcast with the understanding that his actions happened on the Mainland, and so he was forced underground, literally, and is now on Arelith. This does not seem to be the purpose of the Outcast mechanic, but was never actually outlined anywhere. I would be willing to bet a lot of outcast characters were the same way. But now, like the very very shortlived race-tag that let people see Tieflings, this gives people carte blanche to do adversarial "outcast RP" by being able to see who is an outcast, without knowing the person, or their RP, or anything. It instantly creates "us vs them" RP that may end in PvP, all without ever actually creating a story or a set of interactions that might actually call for hostility. The Tiefling/Aasimar tag was very quickly removed for reasons related to endless instant "conflict RP/PVP" and metagaming. I belive the same thing should be done here with the Outcast tag, or, some mechanic attached to it beyond Disguise that allows for some level of play, something that even pirates, covering their entire bodies, are afforded. Pirates are even afforded by the DMs the fact that, if seen, there is the soft expectation that if you "cannot see" their tattoos, despite the WYSIWYG of the bio, that you do not call them out on it - same as only recognizing a warlock by glowing eyes.

This goes against the trend Irongron said in this topic of Outcasts functioning as a bridge between worlds, something I even said earlier in this topic - in exactly those words.

I absolutely understand the angle being put forth here, and completely concede that outcasts can very easily have the run of the server. I have played both sides and it's completely true. However, a lore-less check available to any PC at level 3 with 10k with no investment that covers every outcast ever made without regard for that PC's personal history or the wrongs they may have actually done does not feel like it contributes to a positive story creating environment on the server. People will be much more encouraged to act when the label is there for everyone to see, even if the knowledge is known IC and disseminated. Guard PCs will now be pressured to act and PvP and actively exile. Outcasts, instead of having the freedom to create story and serve as a "bridge" between the surface and the UD, now are stuck underground, creating two clean divides in the playerbase again. Surfacers don't generally get to go to the UD without issue, and Outcasts aren't treated too well up top without some level of apathy. What this means is Outcasts often serve as double agents and spies for both sides, furthering conflict without leading to explicit PvP.

---

The user Solo makes some very good observations in the previous page of the topic. It ca be incredibly difficult to catalog any sort of history on the server, and yet this addition means every single outcast is perfectly documented in the minds of every single settlement on the island forever, upon the creation of that outcast. It is an encyclopedia of photographic memory information handed out to every single settlement citizen and can be referenced as a free action with no skill check and no RP.

I have difficulty wrapping my mind around the concept of a bunch of clowns who probably think the Earth is flat, running around in armour and waving swords, are going to be able to have a more efficient law enforcement and counter-espionage apparatus than both superpowers had during the Cold War.

But perhaps I'm not familiar enough with the server. I did feel the need to point out the above, because quite frankly, I'm a bit amazed that it hasn't been brought up yet. This whole "Everyone on Arelith is equipped with a facial recognition software implanted in their brain" is... nonsensical.

Anyway, I bring this up only because just today I saw someone who was playing an outcast essentially getting stonewalled at every turn by a good Samaritan who felt the need to protect us all, and it was just painful to watch... About as painful as when I had the pleasure of seeing "If you're not a Shadow Mage, then cast Wall of Fire to prove it!", "No, the Shades version doesn't count!", and "Only Shadow Mages of Shar have the ability to Hide while still in plain sight."

----

Again - this harkens back to what was said in earlier topics and times by DMs and Irongron - that this sort of basic, tag-related, identification level RP is poor for overall story creation for the server. The tag "forces" (notice the quotes) a certain sort of reaction from people by the existence of its tag. A PC who is not an outcast and yet performed similar actions could probably expect an extremely different response from someone who has the outcast tag and performs those actions, despite both people likely being present in the omnipresent mind of the NPC hive-aether.

I really hope that Surface Settlements will want to step up and do their job of shunning any Outcasts they see right now.

I hope this doesn't happen, because excluding large chunks from the server and constantly separating everyone off into tiny little microcosms that don't interact is not good for the server. Even Irongron says in this topic that it's his hope, as overall server direction, that Outcasts function as a bridge between worlds, something which has been greatly harmed by this tag added to the server. All constant shunning will do is destroy any hope of long term RP between worlds, places, people, and boil this down to simple hostility. Exiles, effective PVP on sight, etc. Any sort of RP is now locked to specifically hyper high Bluff classes, who must contend with the soft metagaming around Bluff and Disguise that can be very very hard to record or prove when it happens. It also means that RP can essentially never happen until level 30 and full geared, as a Disguise that is broken exactly once is now useless forever, because they also see your accompanying Outcast status with no Lore check whatsoever. You are, seemingly encouraged to do so, despite it being the exact opposite for Pirates, Warlocks, so forth, where the expectation is that you are to ignore those statuses and "Tag callouts" in the same of creating a positive overall story experience for the server. If/When you come back at level 30, people will remember you tried to do so at level 7. Spot is also much easier to get to high levels than ever before - Rogues can expect to get a very casual 70 spot just walking around with only a few pieces of gear, let alone any wisdom classes.

---

The thing is, and not to stomp my foot over and over again, the devs wouldn't be so inclined to label everything, if the players weren't as inclined to disregard what should be some very large labels on their characters.

Once again, we are told, often, by the DMs and Irongron, to shrewdly ignore these labels from time to time for the sake of creating abetter combined RP experience. We are then told, now, that to not react to the Outcast tag, despite lack of ability to truly know anything about the Outcast, is to "go against the will of the entire populace", which means your character will be ostracized, because now, without RP, everyone else can see you're "hanging out" with an Outcast too.

---

If you wish to discover if one is an outcast I would consider this an opportunity for intelligence gathering, via informants in surface settlements, or by engaging the outcast in meaningful roleplay. We could in addition to this update, tie outcast recognition to the lore skill for everyone else but I would prefer not to do that; better such knowledge is learned via RP and interaction than a simple, and predictable mechanic.

OK, but why the mechanic on the surface then. I feel like this one paragraph, like, sums up everything. The Underdark is expected to do all this TP to figure out if someone is an Outcast, but the Outcast *lives in the Underdark and is here every day*. There's no RP to do there, you already know they're an Outcast. But up on the surface, where this RP creates longterm interaction and story, it's OK to substitute the simple, predictable mechanic over joint creation or RP and interaction? Why is this?

---

again, thank you for reading my overly long wordy posts. it is a subject i feel passionate about but i think i am very much in the minority. the people i see cheering the change on seem to think outcasts are all terrible people who are doing it for mechanical bonuses and to be human, and to run around wherever we want any time we want, but this is not so. i welcome conflict, RP, and PVP, but do not think the outcast tag accomplishes the quality you would want to see alongside these - but it will, happily, establish the quantity. maybe this is what is wanted. it divides everyone into "teams" even more on creation, something that i think should be avoided. team dwarf. team elf. team outcast. team drow. team skal. it's not a healthy attitude. i just want to keep being a bridge.

[Chair]

Nah TimeAdept, your not really in the Minority a lot of people think just like you. But the vast majority of them do not use the Forums or choose not to get involved with the general trend some threads go with. So take heart, I along with many others think this is kinda counterproductive as well. But hey, its Arelith. Just wait a couple weeks to a month for it to explode.

[Nymann]

@timeAdept

Some of the pointers are correct, it needs adjustment. But how do you justify a person who were literally undisguised, with his face shown, raiding a settlement. Then 2 OOC hour later, walks same settlement, without disguise as if everything was alright.

Then some of those present at the raid has logged, and its new people online, there is no DM to contact to RP NPC´s who has seen this guy walk into the settlement... He literally JUST Raided, and failed.

How do you justify people who have actively been seen in Andunor and marked as outcasts, to stand outside Nomad and five minutes later they lense into Underdark, and you can´t do any RP regarding it, because they ignore the NPC´s, who would under normal circumstances (I think), comprehend the person, but you as player can´t do anything because you are not town official.

If people can´t control their RP to a limit and degree... Unfortunately, you do need to make a label and regulations... I am personally one of those who love this change, despite the fact I have been wandering both surface and Underdark. I was always shady about it, not just walking around undisguised. Because even if you are not one of the people abusing this, there is several others who do. The amount of Outcasts travelling to surface is like 6-7/10 compared to surface travelling to UD.

You choose to RP something evil and bad, then expect it to be so. I hear people keep complaining about its not possible to be evil on surface. I disagree.. Had a toon who have been it for a long while and is still walking the surface. But the general "Evil" surface rp ers act like mass murderers walking around killing people... What do you expect?

The surface settlements are towns, with societies... Andunor is a trade city, there you got the difference. Andunor welcome trade of all races and background... Surface settlements does not. Guldorand for instance is a small logging town where everybody knows everybody... You can easily see who are not from the place. It does not even take me a tag to see some of the outcasts, despite never seen them before. Because they all act so vastly different, from the ones on surface.

The last thing I would like to point out... it says no where that people have to raise their weapon and charge down the Outcast immediately upon seeing them. They can still work as a bridge if you are smart about it. But right now, I think you are reading it faaaaaaar to black and white. Yes settlement wise, NPC´s will frown, they always will. But nothing stops you from doing your shady deals OUTSIDE the settlements and creative about what you do.
This also opens up a lot more RP for those who -actually- want to roleplay a shady person that you don´t quite know who are. Granted it is harder, but I can bet its gonna feel more rewarding when you trick that stupid dwarf into believing you are something you are not.
Because before... Any outcast could be the perfect spy of Andunor... You just had to walk into the settlement, despite wearing outfit that screams "THIS IS A BAD GUY"

[Ork]

Then some of those present at the raid has logged, and its new people online, there is no DM to contact.

You can always report people via PMs on the forums. If someone is role-playing irresponsibly and ignoring the NPCs, report. It isn't our job to enforce that sort of stuff that falls into the OOC realm.

Also, that line of thinking is punishing the many for the sins of the few. Not all outcasts abuse their background.

I think what TimeAdept posted has been very convincing for me that was on the fence. Let's find another way to solve this rather than the label.

[Nymann]

Okey, lets refrain from reports all the time, this would merely aid the RP a lot easier for the persons in question, to understand the errors of what they are doing. You accept upon making the character "This character will be shunned upon" yet very few I see rping it, or something like that

[MoreThanThree]

Okey, lets refrain from reports all the time, this would merely aid the RP a lot easier for the persons in question, to understand the errors of what they are doing. You accept upon making the character "This character will be shunned upon" yet very few I see rping it, or something like that

No. The DMs need to be flooded with notifications about the wrongdoings about our fellow players on the off chance that the DMs will unanimously ban them.

[Nymann]

@MoreThanThree

If it could be prevented in the first place to take some time of the hands of the DM and focus it into the RP of the server. Then I would -very- much want that, instead of becoming slave to the forums reading through report, endless of 900000 character logs. Find the logs, screenshots. Who is wrong and what, find that one sentence that made the person angry.

Yeah I would trade a few labels and regulations for that

[Ork]

Let's talk about this without knee-jerking & overgeneralizations. The DMs signed up knowing they'd deal with reports, and I'm sure they have their own way of managing that work load. Until I see some announcement saying "too many reports!", I think I will continue advocating reporting incidents.

While I might feel strongly that a particularly incident wasn't roleplayed correctly, I do not know the whole contexts a player might be participating in.

I still recall DM Wish commenting on my roleplay when I first started in the Underdark and I've been forever grateful since. That critique wouldnt have been well recieved from a player. Because the DM was able to observe my character more fully, the criticism changed my behavior.

That's how it should be. Players don't correct other players, report & trust the DMs will deal with it ..because they DO.

[Blood on my Lips]

Some of the pointers are correct, it needs adjustment. But how do you justify a person who were literally undisguised, with his face shown, raiding a settlement. Then 2 OOC hour later, walks same settlement, without disguise as if everything was alright. /quote

Then some of those present at the raid has logged, and its new people online, there is no DM to contact to RP NPC´s who has seen this guy walk into the settlement... He literally JUST Raided, and failed.

Frankly, this sounds like a player abusing the system and he/she should be reported.

How do you justify people who have actively been seen in Andunor and marked as outcasts, to stand outside Nomad and five minutes later they lense into Underdark, and you can´t do any RP regarding it, because they ignore the NPC´s, who would under normal circumstances (I think), comprehend the person, but you as player can´t do anything because you are not town official.

How do we justify this? As a UD player that rarely visits the surface and keeps those visits brief, I had no idea this was happening. It sounds like someone is abusing the system and should probably be reported to the DMs. To blame or believe that all Outcasts should be punished for the actions of a few is rather unfair. I've seen some surface characters come down to the UD and do some illegal stuff but we don't blame ALL surfacers for that one person's actions.

If people can´t control their RP to a limit and degree... Unfortunately, you do need to make a label and regulations... I am personally one of those who love this change, despite the fact I have been wandering both surface and Underdark. I was always shady about it, not just walking around undisguised. Because even if you are not one of the people abusing this, there is several others who do. The amount of Outcasts travelling to surface is like 6-7/10 compared to surface travelling to UD.

You choose to RP something evil and bad, then expect it to be so. I hear people keep complaining about its not possible to be evil on surface. I disagree.. Had a toon who have been it for a long while and is still walking the surface. But the general "Evil" surface rp ers act like mass murderers walking around killing people... What do you expect?

The surface settlements are towns, with societies... Andunor is a trade city, there you got the difference. Andunor welcome trade of all races and background... Surface settlements does not. Guldorand for instance is a small logging town where everybody knows everybody... You can easily see who are not from the place. It does not even take me a tag to see some of the outcasts, despite never seen them before. Because they all act so vastly different, from the ones on surface.

The last thing I would like to point out... it says no where that people have to raise their weapon and charge down the Outcast immediately upon seeing them. They can still work as a bridge if you are smart about it. But right now, I think you are reading it faaaaaaar to black and white. Yes settlement wise, NPC´s will frown, they always will. But nothing stops you from doing your shady deals OUTSIDE the settlements and creative about what you do.
This also opens up a lot more RP for those who -actually- want to roleplay a shady person that you don´t quite know who are. Granted it is harder, but I can bet its gonna feel more rewarding when you trick that stupid dwarf into believing you are something you are not.
Because before... Any outcast could be the perfect spy of Andunor... You just had to walk into the settlement, despite wearing outfit that screams "THIS IS A BAD GUY"

You sound like you are very angry over a bad experience you had and now you are making sweeping generalizations about ALL Outcasts when really I'm sure your experience was just with a handful of Outcasts who, while perhaps they didn't actually break any rules, displayed some very poor RP or perhaps really didn't understand what it means to be an Outcast.

If you have a problem with the way an Outcast is handling their status (or a pirate, or a paladin, or anything else) report it. I've seen more than one DM say, If you don't report it, it didn't happen.

[Beard Master Flex]

I like the changes! I've been playing Outcasts since they were released more or less and always struggled with the lack of a 'trade off'.

I'd usually end up giving them an obvious brand of the crimes they were convicted of and try to RP it as best as I could when I was on the surface - and even then my Outcasts never really felt like Outcasts... even when I straight up said I'm an outcast.

I'm optimistic this will at least help things a long. Its in my experience most players are very nice and don't like conflict, I'm sure I fall into that boat too, so anything to help create a little extra friction is worth a try!

[Nymann]

You sound like you are very angry over a bad experience you had and now you are making sweeping generalizations about ALL Outcasts when really I'm sure your experience was just with a handful of Outcasts who, while perhaps they didn't actually break any rules, displayed some very poor RP or perhaps really didn't understand what it means to be an Outcast.

Sad part, it has been more than once. Far more than once. I see it happening almost every day. Outcasts marked as outcasts just walking around, day in the park. I can´t remember all the times I am being told by some official that the guy is outcast, yes place him on exile boards, place them on Outlaw... I personally think that should be reserved for those breaking the rules of the settlement. Where as a Outcasts... well should be seen as outcast...

I like the changes! I've been playing Outcasts since they were released more or less and always struggled with the lack of a 'trade off'.

I'd usually end up giving them an obvious brand of the crimes they were convicted of and try to RP it as best as I could when I was on the surface - and even then my Outcasts never really felt like Outcasts... even when I straight up said I'm an outcast.

I'm optimistic this will at least help things a long. Its in my experience most players are very nice and don't like conflict, I'm sure I fall into that boat too, so anything to help create a little extra friction is worth a try!

Yes! That is what I mean, outcasts are not outcasts. Most are just surfacers living sometimes on surface and sometimes below.