Visuals for Wards - Love 'em or Hate 'em?

[CosmicOrderV]

That eye thing sounds dope!

Can't help but feel like some folks dont consider how game changing HAKs can be, though. Why keep the status quo? Aninations that look cool can be preaerved in new spells with better function. Spells could be updated to reveal buff details. There could be a spell that blocks such attempts (then only being able to rely on animations). Relevant animations can be improved or preserved.

It all adds more depth to an old out-dated game. Nothing but pluses! New angles with new counters.

[Lunia]

Hate them! I play a druid and me and my summons look like the Blackpool illuminations when were pottering about. If they could be toned down would be awesome. Like many have said you spend a good bit of time making your outfit look dank as out, only for it to be hidden.

[Ecthelion]

While I can agree that it is technically not meta gaming to use the visuals to know what buffs a person may or may not have up I think it is entirely console gamey and not role play. How does the ability to sec moments into the future equate to I have a sphere of white whispy things floating around me, or web spells wont restrict me because I have a glowing green circle under my feet.

Using spell visuals to gauge PvP is just as cheap as using the challenging rating that was obfuscated from the examine window.

I do like the idea of a detect magic like spell/ability that would reveal information like what schools and strength of magic someone has though.

If someone has premonition up then the detector might get feedback saying that the individual has strong divination magic on them.

We are playing a roleplay server on a video game. If you disagree with having any 'Console gamey' stuff, I think you should play PnP and not Neverwinternights. Anyhow, remove all these effects and everything you'll get are people being ready for PvP and walking fully warded all the time, and the people that are not exposing themselves to be destroyed even more than they currently are.

Let's not give more perks to casters, thank you. They are versatile enough already, and they don't need to be the only ones to know if it's worth throwing a Mord.

N.B : Wrote this a bit quickly, it's not very well put, sorry.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Would be cool to see the lag-inducing/aesthetic-reducing visual wards somehow worked into -descriptions instead of the visual effect.

And to echo, would be cool for Diviners to get special treats about being able to identify wards on people. And Illusionists, being able to conceal wards.

Probably a lot of work.

[Ebonstar]

I know we have a way to scale hitboxes and characters now.

So might there be a way to scale the vfx on the models when cast, that are not like stone or bark.

Maybe have the Spinning runic ring fx just spin around the head like mindblank and ulravision etc. Same with premonition and the other huge fx .

[MissEvelyn]

I agree that the majority of visuals on spells don't belong on a D&D-based game like Neverwinter Nights. The exceptions are the ones that are actually meant to cover you with some form of magical effect, such as the skin spells and Shield (I think?).

Furthermore, I actually dislike that the casting of a spell is *always* the same incantation of words and visuals, making it very easy for even a character with 0 Spellcraft to guess what spell is being cast. It would make so much more sense if it was randomized what incantation vfx and words were used when casting any given spell, so that a player would have to rely on actual Spellcraft checks to figure the spell out.

[Mr_Rieper]

I agree that the majority of visuals on spells don't belong on a D&D-based game like Neverwinter Nights. The exceptions are the ones that are actually meant to cover you with some form of magical effect, such as the skin spells and Shield (I think?).

Furthermore, I actually dislike that the casting of a spell is *always* the same incantation of words and visuals, making it very easy for even a character with 0 Spellcraft to guess what spell is being cast. It would make so much more sense if it was randomized what incantation vfx and words were used when casting any given spell, so that a player would have to rely on actual Spellcraft checks to figure the spell out.

Well lore-wise, the incantation or casting of a spell would be the same every time. That makes complete sense. People don't take spellcraft to identify spells, they take it for the bonuses to saves.

It doesn't make sense for a spell to require a random incantation every time. It's a science, casting x creates y spell effect. The fact that the spells are consistent isn't a flaw.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

"In the core game, this spell gives no visual effect to tip you off to its existence."

In the core game, there is a third level spell that can be made permanent for a nominal price and 1500 XP called arcane sight, that can tell you not only what spells someone has cast on them, but also some of the spells they have prepared to cast.

95% of casters according to core lore should also be able to cast "detect magic" as a cantrip which would allow them to know if there were wards to analyze in the first place.

In much the same way that the core game doesn't normally allow you to stack 11 items with enhancement bonuses to the same stat to achieve +12 (only the highest one should apply), probably to allow non-caster characters to achieve the stat caps that only casters would otherwise, I believe the visual effects are an adequate compromise so that casters can know when they should be throwing dispels as opposed to when they're just wasting their slots.

Now, if we get haks and arcane sight as a spell to reveal spell VFX and not otherwise, I'm down with that. But until then, casters capable of analyzing and breaking down spells should have some means to know when they should throw them and when they shouldn't, and that's accomplished by VFX.

[naturaly]

I would be buffed to the max 24x7 if you couldn’t see it.

[Brahtius]

Here's a little tip for the people who want to show off their outfits; Don't use barkskin or stoneskin. If your character is the kind of character that cares so much about their image would they really cover themselves in stone or bark?

Just my opinion.

[The Rambling Midget]

Here's a little tip for the people who want to show off their outfits; Don't use barkskin or stoneskin. If your character is the kind of character that cares so much about their image would they really cover themselves in stone or bark?

Just my opinion.

The character doesn't care that much. I do. It's frustrating.

Condescending advice which intentionally ignores the issue is unhelpful. That's my opinion.

[Brahtius]

Don't like the look of barkskin then don't use it.

If you made all wards invisible it's just going perpetuate the current pvp meta. Plus I think there's also a tactical side to knowing what each ward looks like and how that may affect your actions.

[Beard Master Flex]

I'll throw my hat it for removing the visuals for any and all buffs that don't NEED them to be there.

Barkskin is so gross looking I hate it. The buffs ruin my immersion a great deal and anything with a duration of hours/turns per level imo should be turned off.

Keep things like Acid Sheath, and Shield, Shadowshield, Spell Shield... but yeah nix the rest!

It'd make encounters more interesting too if you didn't know who was already buffed and by how much.

[LichBait]

Barkskin and Stoneskin are awful. Everything else is okay.

[MissEvelyn]

Well lore-wise, the incantation or casting of a spell would be the same every time. That makes complete sense. People don't take spellcraft to identify spells, they take it for the bonuses to saves.

Sure, but lore-wise each spell is cast differently. In NWN an entire group of spells share the same incantation. Due to the limitation on how many casting words and animations and visual effects there are, it would be impossible to simulate PnP with such limits the game imposes upon us. Therefore it would make sense to randomize them, as a healthy and plausible alternative.

Furthermore, just because a player is familiar with how a spell sounds and looks when it's cast doesn't at all mean a character should be. In that regard I feel that this argument is a bit weak.
The point of this suggested change would be to rely on Spellcraft as the sole way of characters recognizing spells.

[The Rambling Midget]

I wonder how it would look if Barkskin and Stoneskin replaced the character's skin instead of the entire model. You'd be able to see clothing colors and cover it up entirely if you wanted to, and if you want people to know you're ready to throw down, you show up in a bikini.

[Hazard]

I'm divided. Back in the day I despised visual buffs, but back then RP builds were the norm and powerbuilds/building for PvP was taboo on most of the RP servers I frequented.

We've all gotten more used to the game now since launch and fallen into certain habits and play styles. PvP and powerbuilding is pretty dominant in Arelith in my experience, and the visual effects give important information that you need for a fight. Not just in PvP but in PvE too.

I think that getting rid of the visuals could give certain types of characters huge advantages over others.

Do I hate the visuals aesthetically? Yes. Especially things like stoneskin and barkskin, which I avoid using just because of how ugly it makes my characters. Do I think removing all the visuals is a good idea? Not necessarily, but I don't know. Maybe it would be fine after some adjustment. Could be pretty frustrating for some, though!

I much prefer a kind of atmosphere where you can walk around totally unwarded and unoptimised, but that's just not always the case on this server. inb4 "it isn't about winning." .. You're right. It's not about winning. It's about roleplay and storytelling, but the truth of my own experience (and yours may differ) on this server over so many years is that your mechanical strength (build, numbers, preparedness) most of the time will affect how others and the world choose to share their stories with you. My more mechanically powerful characters are invited to more factions, more adventures, make allies easier and far fewer enemies, put into spots of political power without them even trying, showered in gifts, amass heaps of wealth and popularity and can pretty much change the world around them however they want without actually having to flex their mechanical might, people just know it's there and they're attracted to it OOCly/subconsciously. My mechanically weaker/RP built characters tend to be the most fun for me and have the most meaningful relationships with others, but it's more difficult to impact the world and others stories. It isn't impossible, it's just more of a challenge.

Might have gone a little off-topic there, but maybe not. I'm counting wards (preparedness) as a balance issue. I think a small change like not being able to see wards could really shift the balance of power and alter roleplay in this kind of environment. The ability to be FULLY warded at all times without anyone knowing, or someone just not being able to tell what wards you do/don't have, I would consider a very powerful buff to caster characters.

I just think it would affect the meta too much, and the meta affects a lot (not all) of the RP on the server.
Nothing wrong with powerbuilds. Obviously. It's part of the game. Nothing wrong with RP builds either. I just think non-visible wards are far more suited to roleplay servers where people are more interested in roleplaying conflict through emotes, dicerolls and orchestrated performances, not Arelith where it's a bit of an in-character MOBA at times. The visual information gained from being able to see wards is pretty game changing.

[Hazard]

I wonder how it would look if Barkskin and Stoneskin replaced the character's skin instead of the entire model. You'd be able to see clothing colors and cover it up entirely if you wanted to, and if you want people to know you're ready to throw down, you show up in a bikini.

I remember a hak like that on Myth Drannor, I think. It was really cool! Made me actually want to use those spells. Shadowskin was included too, and just any other 'skin' spells.

[Beard Master Flex]

Would be cool to see the lag-inducing/aesthetic-reducing visual wards somehow worked into -descriptions instead of the visual effect.

And to echo, would be cool for Diviners to get special treats about being able to identify wards on people. And Illusionists, being able to conceal wards.

Probably a lot of work.

This is a really cool idea!

[Zavandar]

I think just changing barkskin/stoneskin to change your color instead of texture would be fine

I think prot from element spells need to be tuned down (they lag a lot)

otherwise I'm good

[Ebonstar]

Don't like the look of barkskin then don't use it.

If you made all wards invisible it's just going perpetuate the current pvp meta. Plus I think there's also a tactical side to knowing what each ward looks like and how that may affect your actions.

actually it might end the pvp meta. because then the pvp addicts wont ever know if the little weak looking guy or girl is warded up and can whoop their arse.

too much has moved to optimal and pvp and end game mindset. removing ward visuals might shift things back some.

the only down side, when you are in combat you have to play extra attention to your ward line for when they end

[Hazard]

... too much has moved to optimal and pvp and end game mindset. removing ward visuals might shift things back some.

That's a good point. I expected the opposite but it could go that way, too! And I really agree with the first half of your statement.

[RedGiant]

Put me in the "hate them" camp, especially for the long list of wards that really don't have a canon visual.

Remember back in the day when you could see some of the magical information when you right-click examined another character? Remember how we took this away because it was too "meta"?

I'm really for the solutions here that remove all the lag-inducing visual wards. If people think this information is critical to the game, it was certainly much better located in the right-click examine window.

Heck, put me down as in the "for" camp for whatever system you like that gets us back there sans the "visual wards"; whether you have to cast a "detect magic" cantrip stand-in, whether its tied to a skill, or whether absolutely anyone can do it if they simply take the time to examine another character...I'm in.

[Edit: When you consider not playing a druid or a necromancer because doing so will literally hurt your eyes...there is a problem.]

[MissEvelyn]

Don't like the look of barkskin then don't use it.

If you made all wards invisible it's just going perpetuate the current pvp meta. Plus I think there's also a tactical side to knowing what each ward looks like and how that may affect your actions.

actually it might end the pvp meta. because then the pvp addicts wont ever know if the little weak looking guy or girl is warded up and can whoop their arse.

too much has moved to optimal and pvp and end game mindset. removing ward visuals might shift things back some.

the only down side, when you are in combat you have to play extra attention to your ward line for when they end

Wholeheartedly agreed with all of this.

[Eters]

The other side of the argument is that the meta people will now also be warded in towns etc without you noticing, which means pvp "on the fly" will be happening far more often since people will just have the ability to be fully warded "at full strength" all the time.