EDIT: add 1 from boots, 1 from druid-brewed barkskin potions, and you can add an ab with aid potions too. 45 ab and 62 ac at the same time.
i used your chart in the pgcc
by that and make belt and rings and necklace since the sash and beads are not in the shop , with dex and wis on each i got to 48 ac and 43/40 etc on the attack set unarmed. so while you can slap on impex and get to 58 ac and then buff from their, you drop your 43 to 33 and down
now even with your chart your ab set goes down with katana to 38/35 and so on but you have seven attacks but not even close to 45 and 62 at the same time since you lose your ki ab bonuses as i mentioned
toss in blinding speed and you boost ac by 4 which takes you to 52 for 3 minutes
you get 46 sr
however, you are fragile as hell, one crit by a wm and you are badly wounded due to the fact to boost your dex to 17 base and the int to 13 min and wis 14 you have literally mediocre strength and con
Now maybe you are right, I have hamstrung my monk by making him imo more sturdy and with a bit more power behind his punch. but I also feel that i didnt make him a one trick pony
But not everyone is going to make a itw katana dex monk to that extreme.
just like not everyone is going to make a str based monk to any extreme.
Fine you balance the whole by the extremes, but have you every considered that the extremes may be the exceptions not the norm.
i have made this build on the pgcc and got the numbers i described
you intentionally made your character weaker and got a weaker character. do you think this server should be balanced around people who intentionally make themselves weak?
I too like playing my wizards with 14 int and 24 con. After all they don't really need more than 4th level spells, do they? Why optimize to such an extreme. Wouldn't want to go to badly wounded from a single WM crit either since HP is obviously a wizard's primary defense.
Sorry if that came off a bit rude but monks are very silly right now.
Ebonstar wrote:Fine you balance the whole by the extremes, but have you every considered that the extremes may be the exceptions not the norm.
When balancing for PvE, I'd assume characters would be about "two steps" down from optimal. Meaning that if an optimal WM had 49 AB, I'd balance around 47 AB instead. If an optimal rogue had 60 AC, I'd instead balance around 58 AC. So on and so forth.
This leaves a fair bit of wiggle room for roleplay builds and inexperienced players that might play otherwise optimal builds poorly. Great.
On the other hand, it should be obvious that this notion falls apart when comparing one class to another. For example, let's assume we have two classes that are equal in strength, class X and class Y.
X = Y
Now let's say we want to balance each class around the expectation that builds will be suboptimal. By way of example, we can say each class will be 90% of optimal in standard play.
0.9X = 0.9Y
All right! Fantastic. Now let's employ some basic algebra and simplify this second equation.
0.9X / 0.9 = 0.9Y / 0.9
X = Y
Hey, wait a minute. Does this look familiar? Of course it does. We just arrived back where we started!
Comparing two optimal versions of a class is no different from comparing two versions of a class that are suboptimal by the same margin. If a class is overpowered when fully optimized, it's overpowered, full stop.
Poolbrain wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:27 am
Acid sheath scrolls. Web and grease against str monks, drop summon on that.
Acid sheath only works if the monk actually has to hit you. If he's able to completly ignore you (And he is, if you can't cast other spells on him), he can just read a book while following you until you run out of acid sheathes. Or use a shuriken to attack you, which are also a monk weapon.
Web and Grease, as you said, only work on STR monks who are a completely different beast. One that almost certainly doesn't go pure, so they have UMD and thus Freedom of Movement wands (Or potions, which the pure ones can also have) to counter Web and Grease. And even if they didn't, those won't kill them on their own and there's no guarantee they'll fail the save. Not to mention that those spells won't kill on their own, which goes into the previous spell issues.
Summon isn't hitting a dex monk (Or potentially even a str monk) if they're not losing AC via being flatfooted or something similar. Good luck forcing that on them if they're not completely turning their brain off.
UilliamNebel wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pm
You're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote:
I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.
The majority of the balance team are ignored when it comes to making decisions. (Espescially this one)
It's a mistake to assume that all updates are okay and balanced because they make it in game, or that someone knows what they're doing because it exists.
Subjective experience wins out against objective maths in these situations (they shouldn't of course). So usually the team has to point towards silly IG things and then refer back to the solid proof.
Usually the cycle is an average of 3 months before some hard argued and fought for changes make it in. If the creator finds the time or is available.
These threads exist because severely outlying builds impact roleplay in a hugely negative way.
They destroy the economy.
They remove pve challenge.
They allow people to RP as invincible.
They cause a lack of diversity.
It's not solely because of PvP. However I'll bet someone driving a tank would be more comfortable picking a fight than if they weren't!
As stated there are already monk nerfs tabled, which is great. There's no real question whether they need it or not dev side now. So wait and see what they are and save the ree'ing for the next rogue/pm/monk/xbow update, until that's confirmed to need nerfs as well.
I'm not going to share anything from the group because I don't feel that is my place to do so.
However I can myself confirm it exists and I was a part of it, up until shortly after the monk-update when I left.
I can also confirm we were advisory only.
I'm not sure if it functionally exists now with many prominent people leaving, due to various problems - mostly revolving around people being disillusioned and annoyed at having little to no say in mechanics and ultimately only being used as a scapegoat for poor decisions. Also frustrations in fixing problems we identified, after they became problems IG, rather than at any stage prior. (And some ethical annoyances)
I'm sure it's in hand, if the suggestions that were made prior to leaving are greenlit then Monks should be in a good spot.
Arelith has never had an official "balance team". It's a little more complicated than that.
I joined Arelith's team as a contributor shortly after Irongron's appointment as head admin. It seemed a fresh start for Arelith, and I was excited to get on board! I'd always been interested in working as a developer here, but I didn't feel my development philosophy would mesh with the previous administration's.
When I joined the team, there wasn't much in the way of centralized communication for developers: some Skype banter, but that's it. There was no greater scope, no overarching plan. Developers contributed their own ideas separately, with varying levels of supervision and feedback on each update. Administration seemed far more interested in the ideas behind updates behind than the nitty gritty; actual details were generally left to the developer in question.
Since I felt that Arelith would be much more interesting with a greater emphasis on gameplay, I focused primarily on class rebalancing (after adding Player Tool 1, of course!) Since balance can be tricky on the best of days, I assembled an unofficial "balance team", comprised of a handful of mechanically savvy (in my opinion!) players, to offer feedback on upcoming updates. Note: this was my personal team. We also offered to review other developers' work, but that was purely opt-in; no developer had to run anything by the team.
Initially, the balance team communicated primarily through discord. (And the "balance" discord still exists today, but it's no longer used for its original purpose; it's just a place to chat.) However, we felt Arelith could benefit from more communication between developers, so we lobbied to have a balance forum added here. Our wish was granted.
For a time, we used the balance forum for discussions, record-keeping, and as a means to interface with other developers desiring feedback (or wishing to offer their own.) The intention was to foster team unity. However, there were some concerns with certain entitled members of the team, who were less-than-polite with other contributors and the administration. These team members were promptly kicked. Later, when said ex-team members stirred up yet more controversy on the forum, administration removed the balance forum on account of "member entitlement". (Nevermind that the problem players in question were no longer even a part of the balance team.)
Back to square one for a time.
Administration then created an official Arelith discord channel for DMs and contributors. Balance team members were not invited, since they worked purely in an "unofficial" capacity (i.e. they were strictly advisory.)
The Arelith channel would later evolve when a new contributor was added with whom I had personal grievances. Feeling disrespected, but not wanting to make a fuss, I quietly stepped down and left the channel. In an effort to resolve tensions, administration then split what was once a single group into separate channels with separate development groups. I was added to the group owned by ActionReplay (whereupon he received his fancy new title!), and I promptly brought several members from the balance team with me. Nevertheless, I remained disillusioned, so I wasn't active for long.
ActionReplay's team evolved into the current iteration of what some might call the "balance team", but it remains unofficial and has no contact with developers outside of that group whatsoever. (In fact, it has less contact with other developers than ever before!) I can't otherwise speak to its current state, though I'm sure others could do so if they wished.
Last edited by Peppermint on Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Im sure that who ever made that monk 'update' plays a monk or his palls do , Persistent servers are always this fair.
But we wil row with the oars we have
The thread has now diverted from 'feedback' to another focus entirely.
The changes will be put in once the update is complete and ready for launch.
They will be handled by the appropriate teams as has been the case for class changes in Arelith.
Thank you.
"It is evil things we shall be fighting against, brute force, bad faith, injustice, oppression and persecution."
- Minister Neville Chamberlain 1939