THE REAL MEN TILLING THE FIELDS.

[Memelord]

You're forgetting that you'll be getting another 40 XP per tick from your adventure XP pool, which will always be full enough to give you 40 XP every tick if you're putting in literally any effort at all. You can also get an additional +20 XP per tick if you ask to be given a MoD, which you should definitely do if you've got the chops for it. Being in a tavern or similar location grants an additional +10 XP per tick as well (alcohol is the only true vehicle for commerce.)

Since all of these things amount to almost tripling the amount of XP per tick you gain over the amount you used for your quick maths, the actual rate you level up at (or have the potential to level up at) is actually significantly quicker. Still relatively slow.

[Adam Antium]

20 exp from rpr
20 from commoner
40 from adventure xp
20 from MOD

Not including tavern exp, you're not going to spend all your time in a tavern, and if you are then you're cancer

This is 100 exp per tick, 1,000 per hour. 435 hours.

At 4 hours of active play per day (which is quite active) that means you'll become level 30 in 109 days, roughly. About 3.5 months.


That's not great, not the worst either.

It's faster if you have higher RPR, and I imagine /some/ of your time will include time in a tavern, so if you actually do play actively for 4 hours every day without fail, 3.5 months is the /slow/ end of the bell-curve.


Now, if you only play actively 2 hours every other day (AKA 1 hour every day) (not an unreasonable thought - some people are busy, and have lives) that multiplies the time by 4. You're going to be playing for more than a year before your commoner reaches level 30. With MoD. If you have 30 RPR you'll spend /just under/ a year to get to level 30, if you play for an average of 1 hour a day.


So, don't plan on reaching 30 with your commoner, unless you plan to spend an UNGODLY amount of time actively playing to get exp ticks.

[Ebonstar]

You're forgetting that you'll be getting another 40 XP per tick from your adventure XP pool, which will always be full enough to give you 40 XP every tick if you're putting in literally any effort at all. You can also get an additional +20 XP per tick if you ask to be given a MoD, which you should definitely do if you've got the chops for it. Being in a tavern or similar location grants an additional +10 XP per tick as well (alcohol is the only true vehicle for commerce.)

Since all of these things amount to almost tripling the amount of XP per tick you gain over the amount you used for your quick maths, the actual rate you level up at (or have the potential to level up at) is actually significantly quicker. Still relatively slow.

wasnt forgetting, i noted that didnt include any extras

[Memelord]

You're forgetting that you'll be getting another 40 XP per tick from your adventure XP pool, which will always be full enough to give you 40 XP every tick if you're putting in literally any effort at all. You can also get an additional +20 XP per tick if you ask to be given a MoD, which you should definitely do if you've got the chops for it. Being in a tavern or similar location grants an additional +10 XP per tick as well (alcohol is the only true vehicle for commerce.)

Since all of these things amount to almost tripling the amount of XP per tick you gain over the amount you used for your quick maths, the actual rate you level up at (or have the potential to level up at) is actually significantly quicker. Still relatively slow.

wasnt forgetting, i noted that didnt include any extras

Okay, so you were being deliberately hyperbolic.

Either way, "color commentary" on experience gain for commoners is now pointless and unhelpful, for two major reasons:

1) Irongron has already said he plans on giving Commoners additional ways to gain XP, including options to take certain writs (and the creation of entirely new sets of writs); even if these writs only add like an extra 1000 XP per RL day, that will still shave off a not insignificant amount of time from any calculations.

2) Commoners don't need to reach level 30 to be viable and useful. My Commoner is level 11; I've fully mastered a craft and have 77 CP/cycle. I have almost 30 appraise, and 20+ search, after gear. I have enough Heal skill to be useful as a backline healer and lootbooster while accompanying adventurers.

Additionally, claiming that Commoners are purely relegated to "just social RP" or "AFKing for XP" is misinformed, misleading, unimaginative and unhelpful. Commoners actually have a surprisingly good skillset for adventuring. Any party that brings a commoner with them can expect to get significantly more loot - and to get significantly more for their loot - than if they had not. Having Heal as a class skill means they can still provide a useful function, keeping their head down and slapping heal kits on the people who are being stabbed.

[Ebonstar]

You're forgetting that you'll be getting another 40 XP per tick from your adventure XP pool, which will always be full enough to give you 40 XP every tick if you're putting in literally any effort at all. You can also get an additional +20 XP per tick if you ask to be given a MoD, which you should definitely do if you've got the chops for it. Being in a tavern or similar location grants an additional +10 XP per tick as well (alcohol is the only true vehicle for commerce.)

Since all of these things amount to almost tripling the amount of XP per tick you gain over the amount you used for your quick maths, the actual rate you level up at (or have the potential to level up at) is actually significantly quicker. Still relatively slow.

wasnt forgetting, i noted that didnt include any extras

Okay, so you were being deliberately hyperbolic.

Either way, "color commentary" on experience gain for commoners is now pointless and unhelpful, for two major reasons:

1) Irongron has already said he plans on giving Commoners additional ways to gain XP, including options to take certain writs (and the creation of entirely new sets of writs); even if these writs only add like an extra 1000 XP per RL day, that will still shave off a not insignificant amount of time from any calculations.

2) Commoners don't need to reach level 30 to be viable and useful. My Commoner is level 11; I've fully mastered a craft and have 77 CP/cycle. I have almost 30 appraise, and 20+ search, after gear. I have enough Heal skill to be useful as a backline healer and lootbooster while accompanying adventurers.

Additionally, claiming that Commoners are purely relegated to "just social RP" or "AFKing for XP" is misinformed, misleading, unimaginative and unhelpful. Commoners actually have a surprisingly good skillset for adventuring. Any party that brings a commoner with them can expect to get significantly more loot - and to get significantly more for their loot - than if they had not. Having Heal as a class skill means they can still provide a useful function, keeping their head down and slapping heal kits on the people who are being stabbed.

why must everyone try to read a motive into anything I post. Not being hyperbolic. I stated fact from what I found making such a character. Had you actually read what I wrote it stated that it was going from rpr and the 20 class base period.

[Subutai]

Additionally, claiming that Commoners are purely relegated to "just social RP" or "AFKing for XP" is misinformed, misleading, unimaginative and unhelpful. Commoners actually have a surprisingly good skillset for adventuring. Any party that brings a commoner with them can expect to get significantly more loot - and to get significantly more for their loot - than if they had not. Having Heal as a class skill means they can still provide a useful function, keeping their head down and slapping heal kits on the people who are being stabbed.

I'm reminded of lackeys and henchmen common to DnD, characters like Planchet and Mousqueton in Three Musketeers, or some of the various servants and aides to various knightly and noble retinues. A character who can help out in the background during adventures, taking care of the looting, healing (if there's no cleric), and various other relatively menial tasks while the adventurer does the fighting and who, in a pinch, can fight off an opponent or two.

While I'm still not sold on the number of trade skills and amount of CPs that commoners get, especially as they're given more ways to participate and gain XP, I definitely think there could be an interesting place for them in Arelith.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

You're forgetting that you'll be getting another 40 XP per tick from your adventure XP pool, which will always be full enough to give you 40 XP every tick if you're putting in literally any effort at all. You can also get an additional +20 XP per tick if you ask to be given a MoD, which you should definitely do if you've got the chops for it. Being in a tavern or similar location grants an additional +10 XP per tick as well (alcohol is the only true vehicle for commerce.)

Since all of these things amount to almost tripling the amount of XP per tick you gain over the amount you used for your quick maths, the actual rate you level up at (or have the potential to level up at) is actually significantly quicker. Still relatively slow.

wasnt forgetting, i noted that didnt include any extras

Okay, so you were being deliberately hyperbolic.

Either way, "color commentary" on experience gain for commoners is now pointless and unhelpful, for two major reasons:

1) Irongron has already said he plans on giving Commoners additional ways to gain XP, including options to take certain writs (and the creation of entirely new sets of writs); even if these writs only add like an extra 1000 XP per RL day, that will still shave off a not insignificant amount of time from any calculations.

2) Commoners don't need to reach level 30 to be viable and useful. My Commoner is level 11; I've fully mastered a craft and have 77 CP/cycle. I have almost 30 appraise, and 20+ search, after gear. I have enough Heal skill to be useful as a backline healer and lootbooster while accompanying adventurers.

Additionally, claiming that Commoners are purely relegated to "just social RP" or "AFKing for XP" is misinformed, misleading, unimaginative and unhelpful. Commoners actually have a surprisingly good skillset for adventuring. Any party that brings a commoner with them can expect to get significantly more loot - and to get significantly more for their loot - than if they had not. Having Heal as a class skill means they can still provide a useful function, keeping their head down and slapping heal kits on the people who are being stabbed.

I agree with your first two points, the appeal of the commoner would be you dont care if you resch epic level or not. This is obvoisky not meant for everyone or even most people. Having to be able to slay dragons in order to progress in crafting if you just want to mske a tradesman, isnt always appealing to everyone. Again being horribly gimped at exp and combat is an option, but the idea of having level v10 joe smoe characters fully interacting at all tiers of the economy is kind of cool.

I find your third point a little problematic. Exp has impacts on party size so you will be viewed as a liability by some. I mean if you are a filler cause no one else is there or you formed the party to begin with, well that is a different story. But i can see much of the solo/small partu grind community not wanting commoners to "get in there way". Which may be a legit rp reason too.

[Tarkus the dog]

[Subutai]

Could commoners get access to some more crops like wheat and rye? It's hard to survive on cotton and sweetberries alone come harvesting season.

[Vespidae]

Hello! I played a commoner year or two ago before it was a class thing, I just fancied playing a farm girl, who was called Tansy. She was a Ranger, with a few rogue levels, which gave her the following talents that made her very useful around the farm:

1) Animal Empathy, which meant that if someone left there horse with me, I could take it to the stable for them. Also gave me good RP around being good with the animals of the farm.

2) Could tend to plants and make them grow faster. "Gift of Greenfingers" is great for this and since the ECL hit won't really matter to the commoner class from what I can tell, it seems like a good pick.

3) Animal Companion. I had a dog called Rascal, which really was a Wolf but as far as anyone was concerned was a Wolfhound. The -associate command and the player tool helped me RP just walking about with my dog, pitchfork slung over one shoulder, as I walked up the hill to sell my produce. Everyone loved the dog.

Of these three, one is something you can pick as a peasant but don't get as default. The other two are things you don't get as a peasant -at all-. For this I would recommend:

1) Offer a feat that allows the commoner to have an animal companion skinned as a dog. Or a cat, or even a squig for our friends in the UD. Maybe other feats that allow one to summon a pack ox, for long distance hauls between Cordor and Burrowhome (for instance). Bodyguards for merchants, a bit like Tribal Warriors.

2) IDK give commoners Animal Empathy? Can't be that bad can it?

Things I would really have liked when playing a commoner:

1) Ability to make drinks that felt more cool. When I played Tansy you could make one bottle of ale at a time. Now I think you can do five, which still uses berries for beer and fruit for wine (surely it would be berries for wine and like, grain for beer)
2) Speaking of grain, that. Ability to make bread and less generic food stuff. I think if commoners are going to be a thing, less generic mundane foods to add more flavour to the world should to. The meat pie is a good example! Fruit pies too, that you can eat rather than throw in someone's face. Loaves of bread. Cider from fruit, rather than beer.
3) Give Cordor its dairy cows back! being able to milk cows and sell it was mundane as hell but rather enjoyable.
4) The farm in cordor used to be an area you had to walk through to leave town unless you were going by boat. That meant that if you were RPing a farmer, you would be able to RP with anyone who went past. Now that it's only the route to leave by the swamps, there's less Commoner-adventurer banter. I have played farmers on both setups and I know this to be true! I guess give people more of a reason to walk by the farms?
5) Having some way of marking the character as a native of the settlement would have been good. So that NPCs don't treat you as a stranger but rather, get this, someone they actually know, or know of.

6) now that I'm playing an underdark slave, some more stuff to toil over in Andunor would be wicked.

Tansy had the luxury of also being an adventurer, of course, which was great from a narrative standpoint: Shy girl who has always dreamed of adventure, suddenly finding herself in the wilds! But the RP was always focused on what got done around the town. Complaining about the harvest or the weather. If I'd been playing a lumberjack or a carpenter I'd probably have a bunch of different suggestions on top of these ones. Anyway, there was always something to do. I hope the new commoners have as much to do as I did then!

[Halibutthead]

commoners aren't going to advance as fast as people going out and killing things? outrageous
meanwhile anyone who's put any amount of critical thinking into this over the past 10 years or so (give or take a few) that it's been suggested

all that said, the resource availability needs to be addressed, though i don't see why we even have level advancement for commoners. they should be on a different system. maybe something fixed-level, where they can spend gold they've earned for "training", "apprenticeships", or something better defined as a method of gaining more crafting points or abilities.
(sorry if this came off as abrasive. good writeup from the op, and insight from others)

[Dalenger]

maybe something fixed-level, where they can spend gold they've earned for "training", "apprenticeships", or something better defined as a method of gaining more crafting points or abilities.

Careful, the last time a dev even suggested adding an optional fixed level path to the server, there weren't enough pitchforks in the world to satisfy the mob that formed. However, I 100% think this is the way to go. Commoners that somehow can get north of 200 HP are absolutely hilarious. I think adding a whole bunch of different paths for commoner would do really great things for the server, and putting them all on a fixed level system where they can gain craft skills and such is totally the way to go.

[Vespidae]

Commoners won't likely need to hold onto a lot of the same junk as adventurers, but there's ample chance that they'll be forced to carry huge quantities of crafting materials. Maybe some commoner-only quarters? I feel like the Mill in Cordor fits this bill quite nicely - it's the sort of place that seems more thematically appropriate if owned by an actual miller rather than whatever adventurer decided to open a shop there. Maybe open up a few of the buildings in the Farms as being commoner-only, add a few mining cottages or fishing shacks, somewhere to put all their huge piles of granite or fruit or whatever. Ever since we got the new version of Cordor it hasn't felt like there's been a proper 'slum' or deprived area really - the docks are kind of like that, but even before the change the area was weirdly mansion-filled for a part of town that had hostile spawns in it.

Anyway I guess I'd love to see commoner-specific:
1) more farmsteads in Cordor, Burrowhome, Brog
2) some fishing shacks and mining cottages where there are sea and mines
3) log cabins for lumberjacks in Guldorand and maybe one in the Brambles
4) more slave shacks in Andunor! The three that we have are very cool but it's not a lot considering how many slaves there are right now
5) expanded Cordor Commons maybe? idk lol

[Dalenger]

Or a non-quarter banking system for storing basic crafting materials. Even if it ony stored stuff like minerals, wood, and pelts, it'd certainly take a lot of weight off of commoner Joe's back.

[The GrumpyCat]

Or a non-quarter banking system for storing basic crafting materials. Even if it ony stored stuff like minerals, wood, and pelts, it'd certainly take a lot of weight off of commoner Joe's back.

There's the citizenship item storage system. Not sure if that's enough ,but it exists.