Hide in Plain sight needs a longer cooldown.

[AstralUniverse]

I'd vote for longer cooldown if they give shadow dancers faster stealth. Really bothers me i could be 17 shadow dancer, just for espionage RP and still moving 30% slower at stealth than a cookie cutter rogue.

This is already implimented. Rogue levels stack with Shadowdancer levels for determining speed in stealth.
It's all on the Wiki.

Where is it on the wiki exactly? I cant find it. And I'm pretty sure they dont stack.

[Archnon]

I'd vote for longer cooldown if they give shadow dancers faster stealth. Really bothers me i could be 17 shadow dancer, just for espionage RP and still moving 30% slower at stealth than a cookie cutter rogue.

This is already implimented. Rogue levels stack with Shadowdancer levels for determining speed in stealth.
It's all on the Wiki.

Where is it on the wiki exactly? I cant find it. And I'm pretty sure they dont stack.

It has both been approved as an update and rejected as an update....depending on which suggestion post you look at. However, it has not been implemented....

SD + Rogue stacks for Blinding Speed Reduction and +2 weapons at level 24. That is it

[AstralUniverse]

SD + Rogue stacks for Blinding Speed Reduction and +2 weapons at level 24. That is it

And dex regained with light armor too.

[Anomandaris]

this is damage from a majority rogue/sd/fighter build.

this came from sneak attacks on a dexterity build


SD /do/ have sneak attacks. they are almost better rogues. They are not weak or gimped; and get several feats and other bonuses for free on Arelith.


a cooldown will not kill this power in them and that is not what i think should change



(that damage is fully achievable and natty)

There was literally a thread about how Rogues are better than SDs minus HIPS, so I'm not sure where this is coming from. Shadow Daze is worthless, Shadow evade is meh and the Shadow is basically worthless in PVP (and who cares about PVE, PVE is easy anyways). The only reason a Shadow is worthwhile in PVP is because being next to it will grant you more sneaks and MAYBE land some crippling strikes. Any half decent PC will ignore it and smash you.

Rogues get better grenade DCs, rogue grenades, AB out of stealth, movement speed in stealth, more sneak damage, more skill points just to mention a few things (some of these do stack now w/ Rogue lvls). Arguably playing a stealth build without SD with higher AB or more feats and relying on other tools for stealth (corner hiding etc) could be as powerful or more, because the 5 lvls into SD are a complete waste minus HIPS.

Also that damage isn't even remotely impressive, for a sneak attack or a str based char, a WM or any number of builds.

The 2 round CD also requires that you notice it RIGHT on time and stealth right away. Things don't work the same in reality as they do in a hypothetical vacuum. If you accidentially hide too soon you are now on a slower move speed and and need to exit stealth and re-enter stealth to actually HIPS. Going into stealth slows your MS and offers a move to your enemy to use a scroll, a lens, or do any number of things (like just move....away). Just because it's "Hard" to beat, doesn't mean it's overpowered. There are plenty of counters to this type of play, to either win or draw/run away.

I don't see a compelling argument for 2 rounds making this ability too powerful. The argument about a ranger having it for free? Makes a little more sense to me but even there, I see enough counter play and Rangers are often less stealth optimized as they don't build their whole char around it (feats, items etc), so they're easier to counter w/ detect skills.

Don't underestimate how many vulnerabilities this SD build has and how much goes into specializing towards this ONE thing. HIPS is this PC's survive-ability 100%. AC is low, AB is so-so, saves are absolute garbage. Overall utility and combat flexibility is high as is damage output (ASSUMING YOU'RE GETTING SNEAK ATTACKS). If someone can counter the 1 primary means of not getting absolutely murdered, you're toast. Frankly if you want to make it 30 seconds or longer than 2 rounds, just remove it from the game because it defeats the whole point. PVP is usually over before 30 seconds.

[AstralUniverse]

Being a rogue has always been about knowing best what umd to use when. Hips isnt even that beneficial to a long time rogue player who knows the module and all the secret npc shops and has the right umd. Darkness and Vine Mine scrolls dont require high lore either. Nerfing hips will most likely hurt the less skilled players first, but its not necessarily a bad thing, after seeing for myself just how fast and easily SD builds pve.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I'd vote for longer cooldown if they give shadow dancers faster stealth. Really bothers me i could be 17 shadow dancer, just for espionage RP and still moving 30% slower at stealth than a cookie cutter rogue.

This is already implimented. Rogue levels stack with Shadowdancer levels for determining speed in stealth.
It's all on the Wiki.

http://wiki.arelith.com/Shadowdancer

I see ac

Blinding speed

And

Ab stacking with rogue and assassin.

Nothing about movement speed. I might have re-skimmed too fast though.

[Diegovog]

HiPS should not give a automatic hide on first round, it can be so easily abused.

Can we get a number from the devs on how many SD/shadowmages are currently out there? It feels like they are the vast majority in UD

[Apokriphos]

this is damage from a majority rogue/sd/fighter build.

this came from sneak attacks on a dexterity build


SD /do/ have sneak attacks. they are almost better rogues. They are not weak or gimped; and get several feats and other bonuses for free on Arelith.


a cooldown will not kill this power in them and that is not what i think should change



(that damage is fully achievable and natty)

There was literally a thread about how Rogues are better than SDs minus HIPS, so I'm not sure where this is coming from. Shadow Daze is worthless, Shadow evade is meh and the Shadow is basically worthless in PVP (and who cares about PVE, PVE is easy anyways). The only reason a Shadow is worthwhile in PVP is because being next to it will grant you more sneaks and MAYBE land some crippling strikes. Any half decent PC will ignore it and smash you.

Rogues get better grenade DCs, rogue grenades, AB out of stealth, movement speed in stealth, more sneak damage, more skill points just to mention a few things (some of these do stack now w/ Rogue lvls). Arguably playing a stealth build without SD with higher AB or more feats and relying on other tools for stealth (corner hiding etc) could be as powerful or more, because the 5 lvls into SD are a complete waste minus HIPS.

Also that damage isn't even remotely impressive, for a sneak attack or a str based char, a WM or any number of builds.

The 2 round CD also requires that you notice it RIGHT on time and stealth right away. Things don't work the same in reality as they do in a hypothetical vacuum. If you accidentially hide too soon you are now on a slower move speed and and need to exit stealth and re-enter stealth to actually HIPS. Going into stealth slows your MS and offers a move to your enemy to use a scroll, a lens, or do any number of things (like just move....away). Just because it's "Hard" to beat, doesn't mean it's overpowered. There are plenty of counters to this type of play, to either win or draw/run away.

I don't see a compelling argument for 2 rounds making this ability too powerful. The argument about a ranger having it for free? Makes a little more sense to me but even there, I see enough counter play and Rangers are often less stealth optimized as they don't build their whole char around it (feats, items etc), so they're easier to counter w/ detect skills.

Don't underestimate how many vulnerabilities this SD build has and how much goes into specializing towards this ONE thing. HIPS is this PC's survive-ability 100%. AC is low, AB is so-so, saves are absolute garbage. Overall utility and combat flexibility is high as is damage output (ASSUMING YOU'RE GETTING SNEAK ATTACKS). If someone can counter the 1 primary means of not getting absolutely murdered, you're toast. Frankly if you want to make it 30 seconds or longer than 2 rounds, just remove it from the game because it defeats the whole point. PVP is usually over before 30 seconds.

I agree with Jordenk.

While HiPS is a powerful ability, it requires significant sacrifice. It is similar to canonical abilities from other classes that define them, such as paladin or blackguard divine grace and the obscene saves they grant for a 3 level dip. However, instead of just requiring three levels; to get hips a character pays in two feats, 23 skill points and five levels of a class.

I also think some players are confused in how hips actually works. Spot is used to prevent that initial hide. From the nwnwiki, https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Hide_in_plain_sight

The benefit of this feat lies in the "while being observed" part. Normally, anyone who sees a character entering stealth mode continues to see that character. With this feat, a successful spot roll is required to continue to see the character.
The note about being in combat refers to the success of entering stealth mode, not the success of hiding. It is not possible to enter stealth mode while actively attacking someone or something.

I understand a need to have a hypothetical spellsword weaponsmaster high saves character not have to worry about the rock paper scissors problem in pvp combat since they can, with careful building, supercede most comparisons.

They, and well geared high save high melee damage class combinations like them, beat normal mages mostly ineffective save spells in high level pvp and are limited to being affected by IGMS and timestop, damage blocked by a simple shield spell. Said 'top tier' characters may look to a perceived hide detection weakness as something to combat on the forums with repeated posting.

Like many other responses before me, I think hips is balanced by its sacrifices. It costs a 2 round hide delay, 2 feats (likely more, sacrificing epic feat bonuses), 23 skills and 5 level investment off the class your character focuses in to get, and a character with less then half the skill points and feats the sd invested could detect it with the plethora of listen or spot boosting skills spells and items, besides true sight. Along with the weakness in saves damage and health most rogue pcs have. Shadowmages as well, since without evocation they rely completely on save spells to subsist in the meta, and have to invest in cha/int so have much lower dex.

Ultimately, though 3.5 pnp was never made for perfect pvp balance (which would really require all of us to have identical skills health and weapons) I believe this rock paper scissors class comparison makes for a interesting and cohesive battleground for all builds, top tier and less so, in a brawl. Especially when vs SDs, since it just takes one spotter or divination mage to quickly ruin their day.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Again, people bringing up other busted classes (or these stupid +15 champion darts warlocks can use to subvert the entire meta) should go in their own threads. I am not against nerfing other things- just isn't the topic.

something else being busted doesn't justify another thing being busted

both should be fixed

(just talk about HIPS here)

[also stop saying SD have one gimmick they have an INT based class level DC to disable someone and can summon one of the most powerful summons in the game. rangers have animal companions and amazing long range damage if they choose. shadow mages can literally do everything a wizard can + disappear. these classes are not weak.]

Well for sake of discussion, perhaps you could address my idea of extending cooldown duration while letting SD stack with rogue for movement spees while stealthed?

[Hazard]

HiPS is sort of the only thing my character can do. I've sacrificed everything for stealth. Utterly useless in PvP and unable to PvE when my shadow decides to stop functioning/bugs out (which happens A LOT). No AC. No saves. Crap AB. Low HP. Not enough skills to invest in detection.

I don't think an extended cool-down is warranted, especially considering how many people can detect you at all times. Shadow-Dancers should be buffed not nerfed. I'd like to see them able to move as fast/faster than rogues when stealthed and not leave tracks, then maybe a longer cool-down would make sense.

[the grim yeeter]

HiPS is sort of the only thing my character can do. I've sacrificed everything for stealth. Utterly useless in PvP [...]. No AC. No saves. Crap AB. Low HP. Not enough skills to invest in detection.

People should stop associating their own malfunctioning builds and lack of skills with mechanical balance. The fact that your character is so lacking in all aspects but stealth is a fault on your end, not a handicap of the class.

Similarly, people should stop relating an entire class to a specific, busted mechanic so much. It does not matter that you've sacrificed one class slot, two feats and some skill points if that means you get access to an ability that has, by now, been repeatedly shown, for several reasons, to be absolutely broken. Not so long ago, monk used to be extremely powerful, and saying "but I put 30 levels in it that I didn't put in another class!" would've been equally ridiculous.

[CptJonas]

HiPS is sort of the only thing my character can do. I've sacrificed everything for stealth. Utterly useless in PvP [...]. No AC. No saves. Crap AB. Low HP. Not enough skills to invest in detection.

People should stop associating their own malfunctioning builds and lack of skills with mechanical balance. The fact that your character is so lacking in all aspects but stealth is a fault on your end, not a handicap of the class.

Similarly, people should stop relating an entire class to a specific, busted mechanic so much. It does not matter that you've sacrificed one class slot, two feats and some skill points if that means you get access to an ability that has, by now, been repeatedly shown, for several reasons, to be absolutely broken. Not so long ago, monk used to be extremely powerful, and saying "but I put 30 levels in it that I didn't put in another class!" would've been equally ridiculous.

2 points here...

1) its not about skill of making builds...show me high level SD which have good AB, AC, saves...and is actualy viable in PVP...show me that build and I would be amazed...bcs its not posible...reason why si many people are agains these changes is that we dont realize that Hips is realy good on certain builds...we simply dont want that change uterly destroy high lvl SD builds which quite onesly have just summon for PVE and Hips...
They should be afected by changes for PVP, bcs they are not even suitable for it...they dont PVP...


2) To compare Hips with monks is total crap...
As was stated...Hips have counters...
Monks were on totaly different level...I should know it..I played it
Monks were on lvl where they were literaly unkillable when they did not wanted...and even if they wanted it was super hard...(super ultra speed...realy high AC...and basicly imune to all magic)

You simply cant compare these two...

[Nitro]

1) its not about skill of making builds...show me high level SD which have good AB, AC, saves...and is actualy viable in PVP...show me that build and I would be amazed...bcs its not posible...

Here you go, saves not included but you can rest assured they're at the very least decent:

[CptJonas]

1) its not about skill of making builds...show me high level SD which have good AB, AC, saves...and is actualy viable in PVP...show me that build and I would be amazed...bcs its not posible...

Here you go, saves not included but you can rest assured they're at the very least decent:

1) both are ok-ish..on low end...but neither exactly good..they are totaly fine for PVE...but for PVP you are on low end

2) you must pick one...either you use shield but in that case your damage output is meh...
Or you use dw but then you have -6 AC from your math...so you end up with 52...which is...just bad...

3) you lovely didnt post saves...but its not hard to Count...if we say that you have top gear and you are full buffed... You will end up with like 30/38/22 without SP which you will get ať max +4 VS spells... which is total trash...only good one is reflex...

4) in the end you are just quite worse version of 19/5/6 rogue/SD/fighter...

[the grim yeeter]

1) its not about skill of making builds...show me high level SD which have good AB, AC, saves...and is actualy viable in PVP...show me that build and I would be amazed...

I was hoping you'd ask for that. Nitro showed a good example of an SD-heavy build. That's 44 AB when sword and boarding, together with a comfortably reachable 58 AC, which can be increase to either 63 or 68 with your expertise feats. That is without counting the effective +5 AC versus a single target from epic dodge. That is an extremely high effective AC. Here are you saves, which can be reached with not too much trouble:

Code: Select all

        fort   ref   will
epic     5      5      5
rogue    1      4      1
SD       3      7      3
fighter  5      2      2
zoo      8     15      2
rings*   6      0      0
sc*      4      4      4
uni*     5      5      5
PfA*     2      2      6
total   39     44     28

*count toward +20 cap

Your will can probably be increased by a point or two more, but at 28 it's already in a respectable range considering 1. you're a non-div mundane melee and 2. you have slippery mind.

2) To compare Hips with monks is total crap...
As was stated...Hips have counters...

This:

One of the most broken things about hips (yes, there are more than one) is if you hit it mid-combat, you cause the opponent(s) to automatically disengage and turn flat-footed. If you then, after hipsing into stealth, immediately re-engage, you can get a free flurry vs. flat-footed AC. This is extremely powerful and certainly should not be a thing. And it definitely shouldn't be a thing you can do every 12 seconds.

cannot be reliably countered.

Also, let us consider that the build we're discussing now is an SD-heavy one. There are builds out there, with only 5 SD levels, that still get the same quality HiPS, with better numbers than this.

[Drogo Gyslain]

1) its not about skill of making builds...show me high level SD which have good AB, AC, saves...and is actualy viable in PVP...show me that build and I would be amazed...

I was hoping you'd ask for that. Nitro showed a good example of an SD-heavy build. That's 44 AB when sword and boarding, together with a comfortably reachable 58 AC, which can be increase to either 63 or 68 with your expertise feats. That is without counting the effective +5 AC versus a single target from epic dodge. That is an extremely high effective AC. Here are you saves, which can be reached with not too much trouble:

Code: Select all

        fort   ref   will
epic     5      5      5
rogue    1      4      1
SD       3      7      3
fighter  5      2      2
zoo      8     15      2
rings*   6      0      0
sc*      4      4      4
uni*     5      5      5
PfA*     2      2      6
total   39     44     28

*count toward +20 cap

Your will can probably be increased by a point or two more, but at 28 it's already in a respectable range considering 1. you're a non-div melee and 2. you have slippery mind.

2) To compare Hips with monks is total crap...
As was stated...Hips have counters...

This:

One of the most broken things about hips (yes, there are more than one) is if you hit it mid-combat, you cause the opponent(s) to automatically disengage and turn flat-footed. If you then, after hipsing into stealth, immediately re-engage, you can get a free flurry vs. flat-footed AC. This is extremely powerful and certainly should not be a thing. And it definitely shouldn't be a thing you can do every 12 seconds.

cannot be reliably countered.

Also, let us consider that the build we're discussing now is an SD-heavy one. There are builds out there, with only 5 SD levels, that still get the same quality HiPS, with better numbers than this.

You are making way too big a fuss over something that isn't really a major issue.

If there were 50 people running around as SD and doing this, sure.

But that isn't happening, it isn't breaking the game, and this is pointless.

I go back to my original statement "Not everything has to be fair and balanced".

[the grim yeeter]

You are making way too big a fuss over something that isn't really a major issue.

If there were 50 people running around as SD and doing this, sure.

But that isn't happening, it isn't breaking the game, and this is pointless.

I go back to my original statement "Not everything has to be fair and balanced".

Please, stop posting if all you are going to do is repeat yourself and say unproductive things without proper argumentation.

[Nitro]

1) both are ok-ish..on low end...but neither exactly good..they are totaly fine for PVE...but for PVP you are on low end

2) you must pick one...either you use shield but in that case your damage output is meh...
Or you use dw but then you have -6 AC from your math...so you end up with 52...which is...just bad...

3) you lovely didnt post saves...but its not hard to Count...if we say that you have top gear and you are full buffed... You will end up with like 30/38/22 without SP which you will get ať max +4 VS spells... which is total trash...only good one is reflex...

4) in the end you are just quite worse version of 19/5/6 rogue/SD/fighter...

In what world is 68 AC with EDODGE "low end"? That's high enough that melee builds need to have over 53 AB to start hitting you outside of 20's, and thanks to HIPS you can safely swap in and out of 1h+shield and Dual wield as the situation demands.

Furthermore, 42AB while not the highest, is going to be hitting against enemies who have lost 4-12 AC depending on how much tumble/dodge modifier they have because you can just dip into HIPS to break their action chain every 12 seconds.

The will save is the weakest point of this build(Still good with slippery mind), but hey what a shocker you have a get out of jail free card that will break action sequences in the form of hips that will let you disengage and apply whatever consumable you need to keep yourself snug and defended against mental attacks.

This is why we're advocating for a longer cooldown, HIPS is downright broken in this era of TS nerfed into the ground.

I go back to my original statement "Not everything has to be fair and balanced".

If you believe that, then there's no need to post in balance discussions, no need to care about what happens to the classes because it doesn't have to be fair.

[CptJonas]

1) its not about skill of making builds...show me high level SD which have good AB, AC, saves...and is actualy viable in PVP...show me that build and I would be amazed...

I was hoping you'd ask for that. Nitro showed a good example of an SD-heavy build. That's 44 AB when sword and boarding, together with a comfortably reachable 58 AC, which can be increase to either 63 or 68 with your expertise feats. That is without counting the effective +5 AC versus a single target from epic dodge. That is an extremely high effective AC. Here are you saves, which can be reached with not too much trouble:

Code: Select all

        fort   ref   will
epic     5      5      5
rogue    1      4      1
SD       3      7      3
fighter  5      2      2
zoo      8     15      2
rings*   6      0      0
sc*      4      4      4
uni*     5      5      5
PfA*     2      2      6
total   39     44     28

*count toward +20 cap

Your will can probably be increased by a point or two more, but at 28 it's already in a respectable range considering 1. you're a non-div melee and 2. you have slippery mind.

2) To compare Hips with monks is total crap...
As was stated...Hips have counters...

This:

One of the most broken things about hips (yes, there are more than one) is if you hit it mid-combat, you cause the opponent(s) to automatically disengage and turn flat-footed. If you then, after hipsing into stealth, immediately re-engage, you can get a free flurry vs. flat-footed AC. This is extremely powerful and certainly should not be a thing. And it definitely shouldn't be a thing you can do every 12 seconds.

cannot be reliably countered.

Also, let us consider that the build we're discussing now is an SD-heavy one. There are builds out there, with only 5 SD levels, that still get the same quality HiPS, with better numbers than this.

You are making way too big a fuss over something that isn't really a major issue.

If there were 50 people running around as SD and doing this, sure.

But that isn't happening, it isn't breaking the game, and this is pointless.

I go back to my original statement "Not everything has to be fair and balanced".

Well...exactly what like other xy people tryed to point out...its not broken...its just realy strong...

Get over it and start discusion/topic on actualy broken things...and yeah...there are many...

[Dreams]

comedy gold

I get the feeling that you're not really thinking about the way that posted build compares to others. How HiPS works is actually broken, not just strong. Builds like the posted one show a way that the broken feature can be thoroughly exploited.

[Drogo Gyslain]

You are making way too big a fuss over something that isn't really a major issue.

If there were 50 people running around as SD and doing this, sure.

But that isn't happening, it isn't breaking the game, and this is pointless.

I go back to my original statement "Not everything has to be fair and balanced".

Please, stop posting if all you are going to do is repeat yourself and say unproductive things without proper argumentation.

No my argument is that you're making a big deal about a mechanic that has a rather high amount of risk behind it yes you showed a lot of data that can show it is very powerful however it's not a game-breaking mechanic and what you're trying to argue for is to bring balance to an issue that doesn't exist.

Balance and fairness in a game isn't determined on individual mechanics like what you're harping on. The overall gameplay experience is the big factor and if somebody puts the time in the effort to devote in to build like what you presented then they should be rewarded for the strengths that they have just like somebody who puts a lot of time and effort into being an epic level diviner or an extremely capable necromancer. Just because something has something that does seem a little bit overpowered doesn't make it an apocalyptic game-breaking situation.

I completely understand where you're coming from and while the adjustment could be argued for it isn't wholly necessary in the context that's being presented. Speaking from a logical standpoint looking at me game as a whole it gives people an incentive and a risk to take because yeah that isn't going to match up against every character. Hide in plain sight is a very strong ability that gives you an edge in combat but that's all it does it gives you an ed at a very significant risk to the character performing the ability.

[Nitro]

Hide in plain sight is a very strong ability that gives you an edge in combat but that's all it does it gives you an ed at a very significant risk to the character performing the ability.

What? It's an instant action. What possible risk is there to the SD?

[the grim yeeter]

Hide in plain sight is a very strong ability that gives you an edge in combat but that's all it does it gives you an ed at a very significant risk to the character performing the ability.

Please tell me about this risk.

[CptJonas]

1) both are ok-ish..on low end...but neither exactly good..they are totaly fine for PVE...but for PVP you are on low end

2) you must pick one...either you use shield but in that case your damage output is meh...
Or you use dw but then you have -6 AC from your math...so you end up with 52...which is...just bad...

3) you lovely didnt post saves...but its not hard to Count...if we say that you have top gear and you are full buffed... You will end up with like 30/38/22 without SP which you will get ať max +4 VS spells... which is total trash...only good one is reflex...

4) in the end you are just quite worse version of 19/5/6 rogue/SD/fighter...

In what world is 68 AC with EDODGE "low end"? That's high enough that melee builds need to have over 53 AB to start hitting you outside of 20's, and thanks to HIPS you can safely swap in and out of 1h+shield and Dual wield as the situation demands.

Furthermore, 42AB while not the highest, is going to be hitting against enemies who have lost 4-12 AC depending on how much tumble/dodge modifier they have because you can just dip into HIPS to break their action chain every 12 seconds.

The will save is the weakest point of this build(Still good with slippery mind), but hey what a shocker you have a get out of jail free card that will break action sequences in the form of hips that will let you disengage and apply whatever consumable you need to keep yourself snug and defended against mental attacks.

This is why we're advocating for a longer cooldown, HIPS is downright broken in this era of TS nerfed into the ground.

I go back to my original statement "Not everything has to be fair and balanced".

If you believe that, then there's no need to post in balance discussions, no need to care about what happens to the classes because it doesn't have to be fair.

We have just different standarts I gues...
When I build for PVP I consider good AC that which give to that they hit you only 1-3 out of 20...in diff words 60+ without exp is good..

Saves...for me personaly...will yeah ..on rogue like chars you cant do much better...thats why you have stealth...
For me is that 25-30% of insta death from spells no good...exactly...38 is my min...and normaly on reflex or will...not Fort...you realy want to get it closer to that (only killed in nat 1)...

And exactly my point...make changes/ideas for changes that will make those realy strong/broken combos weaker but that will not hit those builds which are totaly fine/on medium to weak side of PVP spectrum...

[CptJonas]

Hide in plain sight is a very strong ability that gives you an edge in combat but that's all it does it gives you an ed at a very significant risk to the character performing the ability.

Please tell me about this risk.

Hide in plain sight is a very strong ability that gives you an edge in combat but that's all it does it gives you an ed at a very significant risk to the character performing the ability.

What? It's an instant action. What possible risk is there to the SD?

Enemy having TS, listen or spot enough to get you, or that they will simply drop implosion/banshe on your last location...

Risk is that you cant say if Hips works..so if they somehow counter it you just slowed yourself in fight...which is deadly...