NegInfinity wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:10 amAnyone who wants extra RP can already do that now, -subdual is already available, along with lassos. What I see it as forcing a bias towards good alignment actions as a default.Shrouded Wanderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:47 amIm confused, So... Could you expand on how it godmods a PC character, and how it ruins any sort of intention of adding additional RP value to default, lets say Hypothetically, zero AB penalty Subdual in order to have PCs RP with each other after a PvP event has occured?
The likely scenario will be that I'll want anyone that comes at my character to die, with very lethal damage. I'll definitely forget to set this setting at some point then I'll be suddenly presented with situation where the game forced decision onto me, the one I didn't take and wouldn't take.
Godmoding means a decision is made for me. And not that I can change it.Shrouded Wanderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:47 amGodmodding doesnt even enter the equation if you are able to enable lethal mode. Godmodding implies you are unable to do anything else except subdual.
It is a hand hold, because it forces good aligned action as a default. Right now the other players are treated no differnet from npc opponents, and I think this is quite reasonable. I also do not recall anyone ever requesting non-lethal damage for monsters, for some reason.Shrouded Wanderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:47 amThe way I see it, Its not a hand hold, but a tool to allow more RP after a PvP conflict event has happened. Rather than Killing someone, then bashing their corpse.
What's more, not killing someone should be hard. If you want to save their life or redeem them, or catch them alive and then torture, this absolutely should be more difficult. Removing that difficulty is hand holding and looking for easy ways. At least that's how I see it.
Alright Ill try to go by your arguements one by one, and please let me know if I am misrepresenting it in some way. For now, ill replace Subdual with Defeat as i think this more properly illustrates what many people view a subdual as, non lethal wounding or defeating of an enemy and them lying essentially helpless on the ground.
1. "Anyone who wants extra RP can already do that now, -subdual is already available, along with lassos. What I see it as forcing a bias towards good alignment actions as a default. "
The same exact arguement can be made for the reverse; For example "Anyone who wants to lethally murder someone can do that, -lethal is available as an option, along with making the choice to Coup de Grace after defeating them"
Certainly it is not a Bias toward good alignment actions, but a buffer between defeating an enemy and making the concious choice to end their life, Adding an additional option to the scenario. What I mean by this, is if I am an evil mastermind, perhaps I want to defeat my enemy and then taunt them, or monologue before delivering a final blow, telling them how useless their plan is and how I will rule the world muahahahah.
2. "The likely scenario will be that I'll want anyone that comes at my character to die, with very lethal damage. I'll definitely forget to set this setting at some point then I'll be suddenly presented with situation where the game forced decision onto me, the one I didn't take and wouldn't take."
The current scenario is the game forcing the Fugue on a defeated player, Is their engagement worth less than the victor? Id say both should have equal engagement when it comes to winning and losing, rather than a player being forced away from the aftermath of the battle to sit for three minutes in the fugue with only the ability to send OOC messages Via PM.
3. "Godmoding means a decision is made for me. And not that I can change it."
Infact the decision you make is deepened, not made for you. You only have to complete an additional step. Id argue if it forces anything it then forces a Decision FROM you, not for you. To stand over a defeated enemy to strike the final blow is ultimately a decision you can make, Rather than the current state of everyone automatically dead.
4. "It is a hand hold, because it forces good aligned action as a default. Right now the other players are treated no differnet from npc opponents, and I think this is quite reasonable. I also do not recall anyone ever requesting non-lethal damage for monsters, for some reason. "
I think I have covered that this is not a Good aligned Action by default, However I can expand on this, Historically, Villains are portrayed in media to be narcissistic, vain, and possibly sociopathic, or psychopathic. To term a monologue was used to expand word counts and created a viable trope that is perpetuated to this day.
As for Hand-holding, I do not think it is, I dont agree that it should be considered a hand hold, It does not remove the ability to PvP, it doesnt remove any choice, or decision from either the attacker/victor or the defender/loser. What it does and can do is expand a PCs choices and ability to further a conflict via allowing IC interaction between their enemy after a fight is over.
"I also do not recall anyone ever requesting non-lethal damage for monsters, for some reason."
Im not sure if you mean NPCs here. But as far as NPCs goes, it is a gamified action that forces us to murder scores upon scores of NPCs, and if we were to take the arguement to PnP, I would say in the event of PvP a DM would surely ask at the end of a battle if that player was truely sure they would want to strike their fellow player down permanently (Or to be raised later, etc...)
5. "What's more, not killing someone should be hard. If you want to save their life or redeem them, or catch them alive and then torture, this absolutely should be more difficult. Removing that difficulty is hand holding and looking for easy ways. At least that's how I see it."
Are you under the impression that killing someone is easy? Experience in actual combat says that it is actually not. Wounding is fairly common, wounding to the point that one would certainly die in a few minutes to a few hours is extremely common in certain aspects.
It would seem that the subdual system on your mind implies that a swordsman would clap some one on the back of the head and they would be rendered unconcious as per an action movie. When in reality a system such as this would leave a person in a literal Near-death state, likely bleeding, almost certain to die without medical treatment.
Infact Capturing someone in this state would be about the same difficulty as it would be to stab them one more time for good measure.