Shadowmage and Shar

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I felt obliged to jump in here because there's a lot of misinformation being spread around.

Selune and Shar were the twin originators of basically everything we know to be Abeir-Toril. We can argue how Ao fits into all of this, but that's another matter.

At the time, Shar was goddess of the sun, and Selune was goddess of the moon, and in the cosmic hierarchy, sun > moon. Sun is the originator of life, and Shar had a masterful plan. Chauntea asked Shar for light on her soil, but Shar declined, because again, master plan. But Selune was growing impatient, and lashed out in her anger and jealous in a petulant tirade.

This is what Faerunians call now the "War of Light and Darkness."

But we've already established sun > moon, right? So Selune has no real way of winning in this spat. So Selune decides to take a part of her cosmic essence, and in a last ditch attempt, throws it like a spear at her sister. It had the unpredictable effect of plunging through Shar, and creating Mystra.

Mystra had the might of both her mothers, but was always more fiercely loyal to Selune. With a newfound ally, Selune was able to topple the Goddess of the Sun. The mother-daughter stripped Shar from her domain of the Sun, and gave her "the Shadows" instead.

So when we talk about the Shadow Weave, and Shadow Mages, anyone can use the Shadow Weave. It is the "space" between the Weave - but also a clear reminder of Selune and Mystra's treachery. So for those shadow weavists who are not loyal to Shar (and thus be Shadow Magi) would only be seen as dishonouring and insulting the now Goddess of Shadows. [[This is why in PnP, if you don't take worship Shar but take the Shadow Weave feat, you suffer a penalty to wisdom, because of your dishonouring.]]

You are only going to *truly* understand the *truth* if you fully relinquish your baseless loyalty to Mystra and Selune by fully becoming a Shadow Mage. Dabbling in the shadow weave alone is just poor taste.

#longlivethesun
#downwiththeGreatBetrayer
#thedarkmatrix
#Sharissalvation

[Kobayashimaru]

That was a very nice read, Seven Sons of Sin.

Thank you.

[MissEvelyn]

Well, I'll be, there's a necromancer in our midst.

This thread is pretty outdated, as godsaves are no longer tied to specific deities.

[Aren]

An outed shadow mage may be shunned by their peers, however asking them to cast evocations to me is a bit cheesy. During the Arelith time period I don't think Shar has made the Shadow Weave public, and those without access to it would not really know how it works. Playing dumb like you don't know the source material IC can lead to interesting RP, maybe having you follow the home? To each their own of course.

If meta gaming or being 'outed' is a concern enabling shadow mages to cast evocation(still disallowing 'light') and transmutation at the -4DC and -4 caster level for those schools would be nice. Supposedly powerful shadow mages can still use spells of those other schools at high levels, just to poor effect. Maybe make it -6 caster level?

This is a fantastic idea and would help out Shadow Mages a great deal. Due to the PW nature of Arelith, it only takes one bad faith "RP" moment to permanently out an evil character and knock off any good storylines that player was planning for themselves and others. Removing the evocation test cheese would enable Shadow Mages to actually be deceitful.

It would be nice, and representative of a Shadow mages reduced ability to manipulate matter and the elements. At lower levels especially your fireball at level 5 Wiz would be weaker at 1d6 than magic missile(assuming I remember this correctly). This idea is not wholesale my own, I forget which book/source I pulled it from, otherwise I would link it.

I wonder if it would be difficult to adjust, or add to the existing code that buffs Necro, enchant, illusion with debuffs to the other schools. Or if it requires a dev to tag each spell in a table.

Shadow Adept is from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3.5 - Page 52.

http://prntscr.com/s271i5

The Shadow Weave feat from the same book

http://prntscr.com/s278dt

[BHR55]

This is a fantastic idea and would help out Shadow Mages a great deal. Due to the PW nature of Arelith, it only takes one bad faith "RP" moment to permanently out an evil character and knock off any good storylines that player was planning for themselves and others. Removing the evocation test cheese would enable Shadow Mages to actually be deceitful.

It would be nice, and representative of a Shadow mages reduced ability to manipulate matter and the elements. At lower levels especially your fireball at level 5 Wiz would be weaker at 1d6 than magic missile(assuming I remember this correctly). This idea is not wholesale my own, I forget which book/source I pulled it from, otherwise I would link it.

I wonder if it would be difficult to adjust, or add to the existing code that buffs Necro, enchant, illusion with debuffs to the other schools. Or if it requires a dev to tag each spell in a table.

Shadow Adept is from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3.5 - Page 52.

http://prntscr.com/s271i5

The Shadow Weave feat from the same book

http://prntscr.com/s278dt

This is correct given I have the same book, thanks. I am not sure this disputes the point that was being made that on Arelith without Evocation it's possible to out a caster by the above method. I don't really remember the point of it either though considering this is from over a year ago. Thank you for the public link though.

[Kobayashimaru]

Well, I'll be, there's a necromancer in our midst.

This thread is pretty outdated, as godsaves are no longer tied to specific deities.

Sorry, missed the date there.
Was trying to find more information on Shadowmages (and other classes), and really appreciated that text.

Thanks for the info.

[Ork]

No worries, dude! Seven said it right & it's with that mindset that really paints Shar as a worthwhile deity. She isn't just a nihilist, she was the SUN GOD and lost it all because her sister and daughter weren't able to see her vision.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

(Just know my post was not the least bit accurate and is the dogma of a certain Sharran cult that existed a hundred years ago in Cordor. I think it was way more interesting than standard Forgotten Realms lore because it mobilizies why Shar is indeed goddess of "loss" and how you can legitimize nihilism in your roleplay.)