Quarterbreaking

[Ninjimmy]

I do like the idea of a thieves guild. it'd be some work but it might be worth it. I'd keep pickpocket as is honestly, but to /steal from quarters/ (note not quarter break, steal from quarters/chests... or maybe even just stealing from chests.) joining the guild might be needed. That's possible and quite interesting. Especially if some npc quests were added.

I've also liked the idea of some more security methods of tracking down criminals - such as magic spells to put on doors that shows when someone has broken in. That could be fun!

Could I propose we make it more like an RH thing than a PrC thing? Cos there's one or two IC thieves guilds knocking about they just don't advertise much because... Well. Survival.

[Archnon]

I do like the idea of a thieves guild. it'd be some work but it might be worth it. I'd keep pickpocket as is honestly, but to /steal from quarters/ (note not quarter break, steal from quarters/chests... or maybe even just stealing from chests.) joining the guild might be needed. That's possible and quite interesting. Especially if some npc quests were added.

I've also liked the idea of some more security methods of tracking down criminals - such as magic spells to put on doors that shows when someone has broken in. That could be fun!

Could I propose we make it more like an RH thing than a PrC thing? Cos there's one or two IC thieves guilds knocking about they just don't advertise much because... Well. Survival.

The point of the PRC is to 1.) Limit numbers 2.) Give DM's a list of people to watch to insure no griefing, as opposed to watching the entire population...

But yeah, i mean, i don't think this would preclude PC's from setting up "chapters" of the theives guild, or even having conflict between these factions.

[Ninjimmy]

I do like the idea of a thieves guild. it'd be some work but it might be worth it. I'd keep pickpocket as is honestly, but to /steal from quarters/ (note not quarter break, steal from quarters/chests... or maybe even just stealing from chests.) joining the guild might be needed. That's possible and quite interesting. Especially if some npc quests were added.

I've also liked the idea of some more security methods of tracking down criminals - such as magic spells to put on doors that shows when someone has broken in. That could be fun!

Could I propose we make it more like an RH thing than a PrC thing? Cos there's one or two IC thieves guilds knocking about they just don't advertise much because... Well. Survival.

The point of the PRC is to 1.) Limit numbers 2.) Give DM's a list of people to watch to insure no griefing, as opposed to watching the entire population...

But yeah, i mean, i don't think this would preclude PC's from setting up "chapters" of the theives guild, or even having conflict between these factions.

Yeah, but dude, unless the PrC grants a ton of free skill focus feats to the point where it makes it viable to have a non dedicated QB build, it's a ton of investment into a variable mechanic which once you get rumbled will largely see you KBed on sight.

Assassin's at least get the benefit of being better able to defend themselves and can disguise to avoid a reprisal, a QBer just gets a bigger target on their back. Unless your suggesting the PrC replaces any required clue leaving?

[Duchess Says]

Could I propose we make it more like an RH thing than a PrC thing? Cos there's one or two IC thieves guilds knocking about they just don't advertise much because... Well. Survival.

The "organized" part of organized crime is something we're missing on Arelith. A thieves guild could have enough power and clout that its activities were tolerated to some degree if they paid off the right people. Could even use the guild to target enemies. I like the idea of an organization too because you could blame them as a whole instead of one anonymous thief if you get robbed.

A thieves guild could have a pawn shop too where stolen items can be bought back by the owner or something, I dunno.

Just ideas.

[Ninjimmy]

Could I propose we make it more like an RH thing than a PrC thing? Cos there's one or two IC thieves guilds knocking about they just don't advertise much because... Well. Survival.

The "organized" part of organized crime is something we're missing on Arelith. A thieves guild could have enough power and clout that its activities were tolerated to some degree if they paid off the right people. Could even use the guild to target enemies. I like the idea of an organization too because you could blame them as a whole instead of one anonymous thief if you get robbed.

A thieves guild could have a pawn shop too where stolen items can be bought back by the owner or something, I dunno.

Just ideas.

There was a group doing pretty much this, even had a shop that was used to "fence" stuff but having something properly implemented would also be dope.

[Itikar]

A thread I wanted to chime in for a bit, but that I had not managed to. I want to make up for it now. So, I have quarterbroken a fair bit, not directly, but I have collaborated with people who were into that quite a few times. I will therefore report my experience.

What Deryliss and the OP say is essentially true, and corresponds to a good extent to what I saw. This is not to say that quarterbreaking per se is bad, or that it cannot be a good source of roleplay. It can be, and I have seen it becoming such multiple times. However, they correctly identify the problem when they express the concern that it's extremely unbalanced toward the victim. Because it is.

Unless the quarterbreaker decides to leave reliable evidence to be tracked down, like say, smashing a piece of furniture on purpose, so that they can see through -investigate some information on a member of the team, to make but a dumb example of something I saw done on purpose to offer a lowkey aid to the victims, then they will not be tracked down. Or it is at least extremely unlikely.

Another way I saw popularly taken was leaving notes, or even more elaborate items, but I have never really seen it being made in a way to give a serious headstart to the victim in order to identify the culprit. Fundamentally such approach requires to decide to make a willing decision to lose on part of the player and against the interest of their own character. In 20 years of roleplaying online I think I can definitely count the times I saw this happening on the fingers of one hand, and this including all rp I witnessed, not just quarterbreaking.

Not just that, but this assuming that the quarterbreakers use some sportsmanship. Like *not* checking on the server list that the owner or their associates are logged off, which is meta-game and despicable, but which can also hardly be proven. Personally, I had one of the most fun when my team broke into a chamber where there were people, and we ran for our lives. I hope other teams have experienced this fun, but the reality is that, there is no way to reliably make this happen more often.

Another fun thing that happened was that a completely unrelated character stopped my character, who was there simply waiting to signal if anybody approached. I was not found out, but it was a fun little bit of rp. More pertinently, however, I think this is something, in favor on the quarterbreakers' side that I do not think was stressed. Especially when you need to quarterbreak with a team effort, there are many things that can go wrong. Really many things. Furthermore, patrols from various guard organizations can be effective to deter some forms of quarterbreaking, as I could personally experience myself.

But to conclude, I believe that the problem is correctly identified, by the OP and others, what I think is hard, like in most complex scenarios is to find the correct solution to it, if any at all can be found. In many of these situations it's easy to find a solution that is simple, easy and wrong.

What I think we should examine is the fact that quarterbreaking is essentially a theft of another player's "work", as far as the economy of the server is concerned. Losing is definitely part of the game, but for some people this loss can be very substantial. There are various means to limit this loss, and in truth, only in a minority of quarters I really saw very valuable stuff, but it occurred still an alarming number of times. Sometimes it even occurred with doors that were not trapped or that did not have maxed lock DC, as hard as it might be to believe, and it was not isolated cases, even if not frequent of course.

So, I think that first and foremost, at least a good warning on the wiki about what can happen to valuable property left in a quarter may not be bad. Sometimes bad things happen to good adventurers, but this aspect of the game can also be extremely frustrating to some people, and the game is also meant to be fun after all. So a minimum warning would not be out of place in my opinion.

More in general, however, I think the biggest issue of quarterbreaking remains how asymmetrical it is. I am fine with there being asymmetrical means in PvP, quarterbreaking and theft do fall in that category when done against other players, but I do not think that it is consistent to have asymmetrical means, that can more often than not include no interaction with the victim whatsoever. Normal PvP requires interaction, at least a minimum, assassination contracts require interaction with the victim too, why are quarterbreakers exempt from this *completely* then? If quarterbreaking is PvP, and it is, then it would make sense that a good way to look at it is in the key of interaction perhaps. How this may be achieved is probably not going to be easy, but I think there certainly is room to have better quarterbreaking on the server, whether through policies or mechanical changes.

[Anomandaris]

Honestly putting "quarterbreaking" mechanically behind a PRC (but not a RP gate) would not be the worst idea. I don't want to see it go the way of the assassin's guild or RH, as it just kind of shoehorns ppl's rp into a generic bucket. But there could be a PRC for basically a "thief," which would require a dm application and allow for better curation of the quarterbreaking population. It'd make rules enforcement much easier as an "exception" to typical rules, similar to how the assassin has some unique rule leeway on pvp. It could also breathe some more life into what is in essence a "non-combatant" rogue.

I hate to say it as generally I'd like to be able to just spin one up myself and not put together a prc application. Generally I'm in favor of a more permissive ecosystem but...

"With great power comes great responsibility."
or if you prefer...
"This is why we can't have nice things."

And I think ~we~ as a group, have demonstrated pretty resoundingly we're not mature enough to handle the power of quarterbreaking as it is implemented presently.

Unless of course the repeated messages from people saying...
"I'm being griefed by quarterbreakers within the confines of the present rule system in a non-detectable non-provable way."
..... is BS or not sufficient feedback.

[Eyeliner]

Honestly think it goes both ways. Quarterbreakers game the system but the playerbase takes it as an ego hit and tend to overreact even if quarterbreaking is done entirely fair and square (or pickpocketing for that matter).

The idea of making breaking into quarters a little easier but the chest inside would be inaccessible to anyone but the owner seems to keep coming up and keep getting dismissed, I guess there are reasons but it seems so ideal it's a shame if it's not possible.

[godhand-]

Personally, I had one of the most fun when my team broke into a chamber where there were people, and we ran for our lives. I hope other teams have experienced this fun, but the reality is that, there is no way to reliably make this happen more often.

This. walking into a quarter with people in it - amazing potential for roleplay.... Except the one time i broke into someones quarter to see them doing sexy elven fun times. That was something else.

Another fun thing that happened was that a completely unrelated character stopped my character, who was there simply waiting to signal if anybody approached. I was not found out, but it was a fun little bit of rp. More pertinently, however, I think this is something, in favor on the quarterbreakers' side that I do not think was stressed. Especially when you need to quarterbreak with a team effort, there are many things that can go wrong. Really many things. Furthermore, patrols from various guard organizations can be effective to deter some forms of quarterbreaking, as I could personally experience myself.

I've also had the opposite happen. getting caught outside a quarter by a savvy player who saw me with my dags out, who then interrogated me for a while, before granting me freedom under the condition i don't QB them - AND they would seek me out for future works.... It was something i was grateful for - The other player could have outed me and have me killbashed for weeks on end, but instead chose a happy path for both to keep me at arms length, under a careful watch.

what I think is hard, like in most complex scenarios is to find the correct solution to it, if any at all can be found. In many of these situations it's easy to find a solution that is simple, easy and wrong.

Well said.

Sometimes it even occurred with doors that were not trapped or that did not have maxed lock DC, as hard as it might be to believe, and it was not isolated cases, even if not frequent of course.

You'd be surprised how many quarters you can get into with epic skill focus open lock, and a full set of gear.

Itikar had a great post, free from bias one way or the other and discussed the issue with what i thought was alot of tact and free from hyperbole.

[Skarain]

The idea of making breaking into quarters a little easier but the chest inside would be inaccessible to anyone but the owner seems to keep coming up and keep getting dismissed, I guess there are reasons but it seems so ideal it's a shame if it's not possible.

Grumpy responded to that on some thread. The team had explored that option. I recall them saying that it is difficult to implement mechanically.

Just my musings, but one way to do it though would be to make every storage chest a shop, with item value set to 99999999. Owner and faction in control can still remove items, but effectively no-one else.

Still, that would mean going through EVERY quarter in the game, plus do the scripting, which is a lot of work.

[Void]

Hello yes it is me. It has been almost a year since the last thread on the uninteractive nature of larceny here.

I would like to call it into discussion again and question why quarterbreaking and theft is allowed and within rules.

"That fixture does not seem to belong to you. Please note that removing other people's fixtures without RP is a breach of the Be Nice rule, and that we log every active vandalism."

I have never, not once, ever, seen this enforced. It comes up every single time you move a fixture around and seems like a relic of 2010-era Arelith. This "rule" just seems in stark contrast to the theft rules. Theft rules let you steal 1 item/fixture a day and obviously nothing about theft is nice, so where do you draw the line? It says excessive theft is griefing and a breach of Be Nice, but where do you draw that line? Is it based off the value of items stolen? One or two or three things? Do fixtures carry more weight than items?

I am not sure why quarterbreaking is even allowed. I don't get why what is essentially uninteractive pvp is allowed. It feels more like an OOC transaction than roleplay. And no, I don't consider an anonymous note or sign, with no opportunity for reprisal or even clues to identify, Roleplay. In fact, there is history of entire plots being hijacked by being quarterbroke and people taking plot items with 0 interaction or credence given to other players, ic or ooc, and this is fine and within rules. I don't really think this is Nice or a good breach of plot.

The last thread ended on this note:

At this point, this serves little more than room to vent over present observed and perceived behaviors of other players. Ultimately theft is allowed. Roleplay is expected for thefts, be them fixtures or chest items.

Expected, but not required? Why do the grand majority of quarterbreaks go "unsolved"?

At this point, I'm on the side of believing a fully upgraded quarter shouldn't be something you can break into (ie it should be mechanically impregnable). Either that, or quarterbreaking should be easier and actual theft should be impossible.

You can play a thief, without ever stealing from another player. It wouldn't be as much of a problem, if thievery was not so closely in line with what is essentially griefing. All pvping me means, strictly mechanically, is I would have to spend 4 hours offline or elsewhere while my respawn timer falls off. Taking my items without any interaction is taking a much greater time investment from me.

I (and I doubt I am alone in this) consider it to be rp when I get to interact

Quarterthieves don't interact. It's why you are expected to rp before pvp. imagine how angry people would be if assassins could attack you without rp. "Great interaction", people would say sarcastically. Go figure, that's what people say when they are victims of quartertheft.

Because that's rp. Interaction.

Imagine if you were playing a game of pnp. You come to the table and another player goes "oh by the way I stole your armor after last session," and you look to the dm and they go "yeah I encouraged them to leave a note but they didnt feel like it".

A while ago I rolled a level 30 rogue archer pickpocket that managed to break into some places.
I'll try to provide a perspective of a thief.

Basically, on arelith, if you try to start a criminal character on the surface and if your character is SMART, then you can't do much of crime in Cordor, as every action has a risk of getting caught, and once you're caught, it is pretty much over as "they will know". A smart character would try to evaluate the risk, but there are no mechanisms for doing so. For example, if you are a pickpocket and ONLY good at sneaking and not disguises, then you can't evaluate how rich a mark is, and how much they pay attention to surroundings, and whether they're safe to approach or not. There's pretty much no mechanism for that, so you have to attempt pickpocketing at random, and then they might turn out to be a level 30 character with maxed spot, or they might have blade orb in their inventory which triggers and so on. There are also characters that will ALWAYS see through your hiding and bluff at a glance, regardless of how high you get your skills.

Regarding quarters. They have ridiculously high defenses, and you have no means of evaluating those defenses. Basically, you can't investigate a door, see how complex a lock is, if it is t rapped or not or how badly, if it is. You just have to try and pray.

Soo... (a real accident), let's say you're level 10 thief, and feeling somewhat confident in your lockpicking skills, you see a fancy house with small door that looks like servant's entrance, and looks like it shouldn't be trapped or hard to break in. You attempt to try the lock, I mean, what's the worst that could happen? Well, the moment you touch the door you die. Because the door was trapped with an equivalent of a nuke, and the skills of your level 10 were not enough. Same goes for hitpoints, as 300 damage you received wiped your character out immediately and sent to fugue, likely in the form of fine dust. At this point you still don't know how strong the door defenses were, as you received zero feedback in combat log and just died instantly. In contrast to that, with NORMAL doors you get feedback, and can evaluate how difficult a lock or a trap is. But not with quarters.

Now, at later point of game you can get access to <REDACTED>, and that requires fairly high lockpicking skill. When you hit that skill level , you STILL won't be able to open vast majority of quarters, and will only be able to break into those with very low security. To add insult to injury, description of <REDACTED> says that with your skill level you're a master lockpicker, but you still can't open a thing in the cordor.

(By the way, lockpicking is a skill, and skills are exempt from "lucky rolls". If door mechanism ever "crits", then it shouldn't work this way, as no other normal door functions this way in the game.)

So. With your "masterly" skill you manage to break a poorly defended quarter, what happens then? Well, you can't do much, as you're allowed to steal just one thing, and there's no fence to haul it off to. See, normally, you'd expect an active crime ring, that would be willing to buy rare antiques you stole at decent price, or point you to the next burglary targets. This sort of sorta does not exist. You get appraise-based amount from the stolen things you sell npc merchants, and that's it. If you want more, you'll have to play trader again, and possibly never get this thing sold. It doesn't help that expensive thing you stole likely weights a ton and will encumber you.

Now, it is possible to increase your skill levels and make them closer to insanity and tackle higher difficulty targets, but that will require you to invest a LOT into a second set of gear that likely increases your quarterbreaking skills at expense of other things you use, and that one is going to add extra weight to carry. Once you do get that pickpocketing set of gear, you'll posisbly be able to find something better, but the payoff is not great. There's a tiny chance of scoring something light and expensive, but it is highly likely that at a level 30 the haul will amount to a pair of boots ("found in cordor sewers region") you picked from the chest of Bob the Dwarf, just because he forgot to upgrade security.

Now, there was also mention early on that "breaking into a quarter should REQUIRE prior RP", but this kind of proposition will simply kill any chance of any thief-related activity. Because the main defence a thief has is never being found in the first place. One they interact with you, they're at a huge disadvantage and you're guaranteed to win, pretty much, as you'll overpower them in combat, and a sneak can't even HiPS without shadowdancer levels. Also, assault is different from thievery. A thief can't even make a mess in your quarter as things stands now, although in reality if you upset this kind of criminal, the first thing they'd do is trap your apartment and cover it with goblin excrements on top of that. You are not even allowed to do that.

Additionally, there's already a storage that makes you immune to thievery. That's your character's body. It is no longer possible to steal small items from other players, so if you carry your things with you, they cannot be stolen by anyone.

------

So, with all that in mind... quarter breaking in its current state is kinda pointless activity. It is nice that it exists, because you have SOMETHING to do with your criminal skills, but it is kinda pointless, like pickpocket, due to the risk. You could try to steal someone's "portrait filled with dart holes", and then spend eternity trying to sell it off, or rearrange somebody's furniture, but can't do much with it otherwise.

So it would be nice if there were more mechanisms to at least estimate if the trouble is worth it, and, of course possibly leave clues for tracking a thief. Trying to regulate it with rules like "RP required prior" will simply kill it completely.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

You can tell how trapped a house is by checking the sign. If they're paying high tax, it's trapped. If they're paying relatively low tax, it's not that guarded or it's only 127 OL.

A lot of the old houses have their signs out and I notice a lot of newer houses have the sign hidden away. You'd be right in the later case that there's no way to check a door beyond taking a big old hit once.

You'll also find that a lot of the server's willing to buy your stolen things quite readily. That fence takes a little exploration but a player blacksmith is not going to look too hard for a 99 stack of mithril that was just gathering dust being sold for a low, low price. People do not hate quarterbreakers much until it happens to them.

[Curve]

I was under the impression that the tax number you read was non-sense for the reason of not knowing that very thing. That info was from one post from Mithreas forever ago though so your info is likely more up to date.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

I was under the impression that the tax number you read was non-sense for the reason of not knowing that very thing. That info was from one post from Mithreas forever ago though so your info is likely more up to date.

It sure isn't. It has been used as a pretty accurate metric if you got the general context of the room. A 2000 gp tax in a cheap inn area is different from a 2000 gp tax in a mansion in cordor.

If you find an inn room paying 60 gp then ANYONE can break into that. If you find a house paying roughly 1k out in the wilderness then that's a firm maybe.

A house paying 19k+? It's a full on 127/127 room.

[Curve]

Neat. Good to know.

[Void]

You can tell how

I know that trick.
However, gauging the difficulty this way feels like borderline metagaming to me, unlike seeing owner's name.
Would be nice if there was a way to examine the door instead. Currently you can't do that. It feels that the tax information should be hidden.

Also, DC 127 is very high. As I said, that pretty much requires second gear set, and at level 30 it is not really worth it in many cases.

I feel like burglary shouldn't be restricted to a super-epic past time, and at lower level you should be able to rob a few places as well. Because at level 30 you should be burgralizing asmodeous treasury or something on that level. And not stealing ingots from blacksmiths.

Honestly, would be great if there was some sort of "radiant" quest system for thieves. "noble X has item Y, we will pay a lot for it"

You'll also find that a lot of the server's willing to buy your stolen things quite readily. That

Unless you are very lucky to steal a stack of high demand item, you'll be selling it to npcs or will have to play merchant. NPCs do not pay much even with maxed appraise, and merchant is time consuming and looks like doesn't fit a shady low charisma rogue.

This sort of operation, basically, requires an organized crime ring, and people already commented on state of those earlier.

Either way, that character is now gone, and I don't have any other thieves in the roster.

[D4wN]

I'm of the mindset too that this is a multi-player game like Grumpy said. There are dangers of being attacked, there are dangers of being stolen from. There is the reality that there's good and bad people and other players who partake in your story whether you want them to or not. Does it suck to lose a nice fixture you're attached to or a valuable artefact in your chest? Yeah of course. It's always hard to lose something you care about.

The problem for me isn't being stolen from. The problem is to not being able to get a story out of it. Like others said, most people steal to grief or to RP -at- you. Again, this is a behavioural issue. I don't think personally there's anything wrong with quarterbreaking or theft at all. There's something wrong with not turning it into an engaging story for everyone.

[TurningLeaf]

In some games, territories have vulnerability windows. Sometimes they're set by user or sometimes they're set by system. But the idea is to deal with the offline problem in a continuously running MMO environment. Theoretically that type of system could work with personal or guild quarters in NwN. Like what if quarters were easier to get into but you could only get into them during the vulnerability window. Maybe your character would want to be more around the community where they live, during the window. I am not sure but I can say that in the last game I was on those windows were the driver of so much guild activity, either defending ours or attacking someone elses.

[Azensor]

Most of the qb's i've ever seen were done when the quarter owner was offline so..eh.

I just dont care for the system myself, at most its just an incentive to max your lock+trap to 127

[Eira]

Would anyone really mourn too much if Open Lock had a cap that could only be broken by getting a token through application like assassin has? So you would have to justify and prove how, as a quarterbreaker, you'd be making good rp for others?

The highest non-quarter open lock DC I know of is something like 80. Plenty can be done within that, including quarters that aren't 100% upgraded (which could also be deliberate choice on the part of the owner). But if the majority of quarters are at 127, why not ensure that quarterbreaking can only be done by people who have proven they have the rp chops to make something of it?

Why have we gone from "build people will actively refuse to share quarterbreaking builds" to "every big faction has their single token quarterbreaker"?

This would also influence the amount of "break into a quarter, steal a fixture, drink a potion of attunement" and "break into a quarter to let in the rest of the pvp squad".

[MischeviousMeerkat]

Why have we gone from "build people will actively refuse to share quarterbreaking builds" to "every big faction has their single token quarterbreaker"?

It finally started to get nerfed once people started sharing it. Hopefully it gets removed.

[Rei_Jin]

Would anyone really mourn too much if Open Lock had a cap that could only be broken by getting a token through application like assassin has? So you would have to justify and prove how, as a quarterbreaker, you'd be making good rp for others?

The highest non-quarter open lock DC I know of is something like 80. Plenty can be done within that, including quarters that aren't 100% upgraded (which could also be deliberate choice on the part of the owner). But if the majority of quarters are at 127, why not ensure that quarterbreaking can only be done by people who have proven they have the rp chops to make something of it?

Why have we gone from "build people will actively refuse to share quarterbreaking builds" to "every big faction has their single token quarterbreaker"?

This would also influence the amount of "break into a quarter, steal a fixture, drink a potion of attunement" and "break into a quarter to let in the rest of the pvp squad".

I like this solution to the situation. Elegant.

[Scurvy Cur]

Why have we gone from "build people will actively refuse to share quarterbreaking builds" to "every big faction has their single token quarterbreaker"?

It finally started to get nerfed once people started sharing it. Hopefully it gets removed.

Except that it hasn't gotten nerfed. We've removed some sources of "soft" bonuses, but this only looks like a nerf. Soft bonuses are the easy part.

Meanwhile, we've pushed skill focii from +3 to +5, which lets the solo quarterbreak build get by with 16 int/dex rather than 20 int/dex.

[MischeviousMeerkat]

Why have we gone from "build people will actively refuse to share quarterbreaking builds" to "every big faction has their single token quarterbreaker"?

It finally started to get nerfed once people started sharing it. Hopefully it gets removed.

Except that it hasn't gotten nerfed. We've removed some sources of "soft" bonuses, but this only looks like a nerf. Soft bonuses are the easy part.

Meanwhile, we've pushed skill focii from +3 to +5, which lets the solo quarterbreak build get by with 16 int/dex rather than 20 int/dex.

The rules changed from stealing one item per house to one item from one player per day.

There's now a long wait to even do one attempt which can span to 10+ minutes to open a max lvl security door.

Opening up the information finally permitted change on the subject which before it was an unmitigated money maker at everyone else's expense and now it's just a tool to employ in PvP, which is a lot more public and subject to change.

I understand you're talking from a mechanical standpoint and you're right, it's easier, but the juice is not really worth the squeeze when it comes to leveling a quarterbreaker unless you have an OOC group and they need a quarterbreaker as an alt. Yes, an alt, they're always alt characters because playing one then and playing one now is the worst.

[Scurvy Cur]

I understand you're talking from a mechanical standpoint and you're right, it's easier, but the juice is not really worth the squeeze

The juice (RP received) isn't worth the squeeze (vanishing fixtures and chest contents) for victims either. This seems fair to me.

Honestly, I would strongly favor easier break ins for improved espionage potential, counterbalanced by a strict and total prohibition on theft. But we've collectively decided (at an admin level) that your stuff vanishing while you're offline is "enriching" to the roleplay environment, and properly counterbalanced by ensuring that anyone who is interested in doing this to other people needs to hyperspecialize and limiting the speed at which they can evaporate your stuff.