Summons vs Turn undead.

[Void]

I've found something amusing.

If you're playing a conjurer, you'll be relying on summons.
However, past level 20 those do not grow in level, and only receive soft bonuses.

The thing is, there's truckload of enemies with planar turning. And they, despite being weaker, overlevel those summons and are able to turn even planar conduit summons as a result.

The only counterplay against turning is levels, and the summons do not get them. Because they're summons and not PC, they can't pray, and clarity does not remove the effect.

Is this design intentional?

[AstralUniverse]

I've been saying for years that in my personal opinion casters have it too easy, especially in pve. Resting is basically almost infinite in Arelith and casters dont really need to manage their spells all that much. Summons in Arelith also have a lot of tankiness especially to make them durable in pve content without making them win buttons in pvp. In terms of strength, I'd say it's not even a requirement to pick spell focus which boost summons to solo to 30.

So I'm not that sad summons are being less reliable in pve ever since the cleric domains and turn undead updates. I think it just makes casters a bit more challenging to solo-grind to 30, because it had been effortless previously.

I'd say tho, maybe classes who relay very hard on summons, like a wizard conjurer or something, could have their summons have a little bit more sr and/or turning resistance. That would be fair.

[-XXX-]

No domain should be turning both elementals and outsiders - http://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Turn_Undead
It's a matter of selecting the right summon.

I've been saying for years that in my personal opinion casters have it too easy, especially in pve. Resting is basically almost infinite in Arelith and casters dont really need to manage their spells all that much. Summons in Arelith also have a lot of tankiness especially to make them durable in pve content without making them win buttons in pvp. In terms of strength, I'd say it's not even a requirement to pick spell focus which boost summons to solo to 30.

So I'm not that sad summons are being less reliable in pve ever since the cleric domains and turn undead updates. I think it just makes casters a bit more challenging to solo-grind to 30, because it had been effortless previously.

I'd say tho, maybe classes who relay very hard on summons, like a wizard conjurer or something, could have their summons have a little bit more sr and/or turning resistance. That would be fair.

Melee builds can use summons - and not only thanks to Lore/UMD - there are some pretty good melee centric BG and PM builds for example. Rangers can obtain some pretty decent pets thanks to animal empathy, etc.
Furthermore Clerics and Druids can fight in melee and comfortably tackle PvE content even without summons. They get the access to the same summons as Wizards/Sorcerers as a bonus.
Wizards/Sorcerer builds are punished the most by this as they just do not have many options other than to fully rely on summons during PvE.

In either case, this is not the end of the world, just select the correct summon for each dungeon.

[Void]

I've been saying for years that in my personal opinion casters have it

You need to manage the rest meter, and summons are slower than clear with a melee character. It is tedious.
There's also matter of atrocious pathfinding and constant need to babysit them.

The ones that have it easy is infinicasters, in my opinion.

Additionally, enemies that can turn planar conduit summons often cannot kill them. So it only serves to waste time until the summon snaps out of it.

[Sincra]

You can rest once per 30 minutes regardless of the rest meter.

[Void]

You can rest once per 30 minutes regardless of the rest meter.

That's pretty much what I was pointing out. You'll be playing in 30 minute spans of time without changing or refreshing your spellbook. That's not really "infinite rest".

If you plan to have more than one refresh, the rest gauge should be kept low. If you over-rest it to 99, that means no emergency rest in wilderness. Going too low with the gauge will spam exhaustation warning and then will start draining stats.

However, that's not what the topic was about.

[Edens_Fall]

As a heavy user of summons I find thier current place to be fitting. Having to resummon if a few are turned is a minor inconvenience really.

[MissEvelyn]

As someone who mains casters and for the first time in years recently made a mundane martial character, yeah I must agree. Casters have it extremely easy. Especially summoners. We don't have to worry about our gear breaking down, we don't have to carry tools for harvesting as our summons are so much more effective at harvesting resources.

I think a little challenge against summoners is acceptable. After all, we literally just stand there and watch our summon(s) take down horde after horde. What changed is that we now have to focus on the clerics and shamans of the monster group. We actually have to do something that requires a few clicks. That excited me the first time my elemental got turned, because it meant the monsters finally have a counter to summoners.

When I can be on my phone while multitasking NWN as a caster with summons, that's how I know it's easy.

[AstralUniverse]

Hypothetically, if it was a serious problem then some summons could have really big resistances to turning/dismissal but at the cost of some of their tankiness/dps, so they become useful sometimes but not always and then there's decision making instead of just using your strongest summon. But only if we decide that it becomes too hard to level *at all* with summons and I understand from other caster players that it's still relatively easy, compared to soloing a Mundane.