atmosphere and tone

[2d6 emotional damage]

i have been enjoying my brief return to look around the server. the systems are incredible, highly polished, and reward engagement with the mechanics. track system, boat system, fishing, the classes are very unique and diverse. it is really darn fun.

however, i've repeatedly come across an experience with my fellow players that leaves a bad taste. i can't help but notice there is a distinct lack of atmosphere, which the characters i meet often undermine. this is demonstrated in general through; applying modern morality to a fantasy setting (see a disgust for violence to solve problems, outrage over the tolerance of bad people, to name a few), using modern slang like "vibe," "cool" or "gaslighting", the selective gravitas afforded to death (weaponized to punish the offender, or used with extreme ease when convenient, but otherwise dismissed), a hostile attitude toward people who "haven't been seen before" or "have run x y z off the isle", generally not considering NPCs as actual people...

On the latter point, 'not considering NPCs as people' ends up looking like, actively talking about killing King Edward while you're standing in the middle of a heavily surveyed city without concern someone is going to say something to you, or a general flippancy in regarding exciting high-fantasy things like dragon slaying or drow raids (the latter of which are viewed with general exasperation and annoyance). It's a shame to see the foundation set for a compelling, immersive high fantasy adventure world get undermined by treating it like the ordinary. This includes the apathy about death, whether it's NPCs, or monsters, or PvP. the setting is treated like an annoyance, which then makes it difficult to engage with people about the compelling and evocative stuff like chaos vs law, or the hero's rise, etc etc.

on the flip side, when i have seen players attempt setting enforcement, it feels hostile. i've been in the middle of a scene which i thought was very cool, emotional exchange of ideals only to have them message me ooc mid scene to explain why their character thought that way or why they were correct. or i've run into characters who say, 'this would never happen on the mainland' or 'i've never met a [race] that behaves like this' as a fig leaf for 'these people aren't playing their characters right'.and then that is used to be very mean. this is a weird sort of ooc policing that goes on ic, which extends to comments like 'i've never seen [x] before, curious how they're suddenly here' or 'so and so has run x off the isle'. this tendency also really ruins the tone and atmosphere for me.


i could really go on about this. its difficult to speak in general about because this effect is the result of a lot of little things that happen sporadically, but frequently enough to have a big effect. i'm not really sure what to do about it either. reporting offenders seems inappropriate, as there are no rule breaks going on and i'm certain none of this is done out of malicious intent. but watching it happen so much can at times make me feel alienated and unwelcome with my rp style that doesn't seem to mesh well with what's going on at large.

so what do you think i should do? should i start reporting these micro-instances? should i suck it up? am i being too sensitive/elitist? should i try to join ooc discords and get to know them? stop trying? try less? become a rungrinder to enjoy what the server has to offer? i look forward to hearing people's advice and thoughts.

[AstralUniverse]

we're getting old and lazy. I personally agree with you to a degree, so I take breaks more frequently and it helps my immersion when i return. Idk what else could be said. Also? change login name every character and keep ooc coms to minimum.

Some of the stuff you mentioned is reportable, but some of it is just... how the game goes.. and not against the setting per se. Ignoring NPCs for example is something you should report if it's completely troll like conspiring to kill a king in the middle of the square.

[Curve]

I tend to agree with AstralUniverse on this one. There is not much to do other than set an example through your own roleplay and ooc behavior.

Personally, I keep -notells on and focus on playing my characters the best I can and that helps me not focus on everyone else. It helps that I am a perfect human and roleplayer who has never made a mistake in life or in the game.

I also have seen this type of stuff since I started on Arelith forever ago. Maybe you are just more sensitive to it now.

[fading]

The flippancy you mentioned in regards to slaying dragons is a natural side effect of the server's level cap. If you can slay ancient dragons single-handedly they kinda stop being these mystical almighty beings.

[xanrael]

In any public server, especially a very popular one, the amount of investment in the RP/server is going to vary greatly player to player.

I'd say don't fret the (hopefully) minority of instances and get involved with groups that seem more focused on whatever style of RP you prefer but stop short of forming a clique with them where your next character(s) are also gravitating to the same group of players.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

The flippancy you mentioned in regards to slaying dragons is a natural side effect of the server's level cap. If you can slay ancient dragons single-handedly they kinda stop being these mystical almighty beings.

What I'm hearing here is that we need to buff all the mobs on the server to turn this into Dark Souls.

[2d6 emotional damage]

RE: Fading,
when it comes to engaging with fantasy, you have do a little suspension of disbelief; i.e inorder for the fantasy to work, you have to play along. this is like going to a magic show; you know the magic is fake, and if you were to tell the people around you it's fake and remind them it's fake, you'd lose out on the "fun". this applies to a lot of what i've said. we all know the NPCs aren't real, you can respawn infinitely, and dragon slaying can be as easy as making your morning cup. to enjoy the "magic" of the performance, you suspend your disbelief.

re: astra and cuve
I play with very minimal ooc contact. I would play with -notells, but sometimes i need to tell someone I can't answer their speedy or i need need to say i've gone afk. I think cuve's point is good, maybe i am older and more critical. the size of the server likely doesn't help, as it means more room for error. i don't think there really is a way to "fix" this either, it's pretty much server culture at this point. i could take a 'break,' but in reality that would look like me not playing until someone tells me about a cool new shiny feature i want to check out.

and yes, none of it is really "against" the setting. it undermines the setting, which is to say makes it weaker. its kind of interesting for me because in my experience on other servers, it definitely is not this prevalent or wide spread as Arelith. though; the other servers are either much, much smaller (and allow for a more hands setting by dms), or, like in potm, have a server culture with a very strict, authoritarian setting enforcement (though you get some of this talk too, its just a whole different animal). the issue i've run into is that i can't get away from it. while they are largely minor infractions, they happen very frequently, and often influence major story arcs. though, maybe i'm just too attentive and can't help but notice.
edit:
To add to this point, it's very hard to ignore the ooc influence when someone sends you an ooc message to tell you the reason they're making x major story decision is because oocly they have feelings about y. its very off putting to be told you're wasting your time trying to effect the story because they've chosen ooc to do [thing].

re: sorrow we trust
i get you're joking here. potm does something like this, the dungeons are very hard and require very careful coordination, and dying in an epic dungeon can mean permanent closure (rolling) if you don't have an ooc group of friends who are also prepared, competent, and able to fish you out. you still see some flippancy about demons and so on, but they are regarded as a real threat. i don't know if it's necessarily a good answer though. dungeons that are hard just don't get visited (some of the spooky deep underdark/planar dungeons for instance)

[Amateur Hour]

I think there's two difficulties that are always going to be difficult to wrangle:

1. The Forgotten Realms was designed for tabletop use with a small party of adventurers existing in a huge world filled with NPC after NPC. Typically, adventurers are moderately to extremely unusual for their cultures; this is, after all, why they adventure instead of existing at home in their comparatively-safe societies. This ends up not working so well when the PC/NPC ratio is flipped on its head--people very often want to be the special snowflake hero, so the unusual in the Forgotten Realms becomes the norm in Arelith.
2. Moralities vary dramatically among Forgotten Realms cultures. Things completely normal and acceptable in one can be utterly horrifying to another. With these cultures smashed into such close proximity in Arelith, there's going to be intense conflicts. Eldath is a canon goddess, for example, whose followers absolutely would frown on violence to solve problems.

This said, the number of people who come to Arelith who have absolutely zero knowledge of the Forgotten Realms is concerning, as are the number of people now who seem to have no concept of the Shift key or a comma. I don't know if there's a good way to combat that beyond encouraging people to read sourcebooks and/or directing them to relevant wiki articles.

[ReverentBlade]

The whole system of rolling characters and the generally disposable nature of PCs contributes greatly to the MMO feel and marginal RP quality.

Back when the game was young, the best RP servers were password locked, and you had to apply with a character bio that fit the world in order to be given the password. I spent a lot of time rubber-stamping characters and coaching rejected applicants as to how to pass muster. It was a lot of work, but it meant that people had greater investment in their PCs, and a DM team that was very intimately familiar with all the characters populating their world.

I don't think this would be the answer for Arelith so late in the game, but the reward system is the low-hanging fruit I would take a hard look at if I was tasked with improving the problems you mention.

[MischeviousMeerkat]

I have accidentally typed vibe before when I didn't have an appropriate word in mind and immediately regretted it. But it was too late, the damage was done.

Arelith is pretty big. It's only 2nd to Sinfar at this point so the quality's all over the place but you'll find the mmo grinders who won't rp until they get that 5% that's only ever seen in Orclands and you'll find that guy that's super deep into the setting and lore and not trying your 100% best feels like a disservice.

I just feel like letting go is the best solution. Smaller servers tend to have higher standards and will heavily curtail your builds, potm heavily moderates prcs (although they loosen that up too) to the point that "PrC training" can take up to a month or more.

The recent balance updates burned through a lot of my friends' characters and my character ended up with a cadre of friends different after those days. People treat their characters as disposable, it's encouraged every step of the way, and I'm not sure they're wrong for trying to make it happen. Super old characters can be really stifling and quarters, shops, etc is limited.

Your observations aren't misplaced, OP. The only advice that can be given is: You do you. I also find that guard/peacekeeper/government trips a lot of players' sensibilities when you try to get in their way in any way so if that's something you're doing then maybe try something else?

[Wrips]

Play your character, let the other players play theirs. If something too silly happens, report it.
If you think there's a certain way that people should play, lead by example. If it's cool, they'll emulate it.

[Pincushion]

Arelith's lack of immersion is its ugliest trait. I see no easy fix that could remedy the many OOCisms that persist in IC conversations and plots, save for heavy policing and some drastic changes to server mechanics -- neither of which I'd support.

[MRFTW]

I'll start taking people's characters more seriously when they stop yeeting them as soon as they take some kind of L.

I took a 2 week break and of my characters 5 close friends, 3 have rolled. This sucks, big time, but it's worth noting that all 3 were spurred by other people's actions, making the players of those 3 characters simply not want to play their characters any more (and by rolling, ever again). That's their decision to make, and I respect it, but to pretend that I'm not irked by this would be dishonest.

4 of those 5 close friends met on Skal, during the march of the Firbolg. That was last Christmas, not even 3 months ago. Under a year in game. Governments change several times per IG year, builds are broken overnight by updates, and the most powerful/interesting races are locked inside lootboxes that you have to delete your character to open.

It is quite hard to take things seriously when there are so many features that promote transient gameplay. On my previous server, I played the same 2 characters for 8 years. Here, I don't see the point. I wish I did, because I am that sort of person at heart, but here I feel like a rock in a fast-flowing river, and it's hard not to get caught up by the current.

[Morgy]

Whilst I think the race rewards system could do with a change, and I believe I read there is change coming, most of the long-term characters are in fact base races, especially human/drow/elves. Sometimes groups vanish in a very short space of time and this can often be due to a snowball effect.. it can be frustrating if you put time in to build communities/factions, when these people simply vanish their characters, but I all you can do is focus on your own PC's arc more closely and find others to continue with.

[2d6 emotional damage]

I had a big shower think on this, supplemented by some comments.


i don't think the turn over rate of PCs is necessarily the problem. most people who blow themselves up in two to three weeks are generally light participants who close up their story by the time they're gone. i will also argue that shiny quirky/powerful races do not make a fun/compelling character. (personally, i find the mundane is a lot more remarkable in high fantasy.) I will go further and say, arelith doesn't need people who have long lasting characters. If you can conclude your story and reach a satisfying stopping point in three weeks or two years, more power to you. taking the rp seriously is again, a suspension of disbelief, or having a little faith that the server's setting/atmosphere/rp is worth your time.

a good way to solve all your friends being gone is also to be part of a lasting faction/rp sphere (the arcane tower, the erudite arcanum, any guard faction, any settlement, the radiant, harpers, zhents, assassins, pirates etc). because these factions are baked into the server, they'll still be there when you get back, and there will still be rp for you (ideally). i understand some factions are not patient with people who aren't showing results, but imo, this shouldn't be the attitude in a persistent faction. This is also why I'm not attracted to the suggestion to simply play outside of these functions to find better RP. as the structures that are designed to out last the characters, it's ideal for people who are at a slower pace but still want rp.

If I had to diagnose the cause of, as Astral pointed out very accurately, laziness when it comes to RP and investment in storytelling, it's because the server has come to not privilege story telling to the same degree it used to be. There isn't really an incentive, or a reason for people to be interested in telling stories; RPR has become a formula of activity which engages the public at large, shaking up the status quo, and good OOC behavior. It's also been a little perverted by it's association to a social hierarchy/ the appearance of privilege. So RPR doesn't really serve as an incentive to be looking to improve your story telling, just how big your performance is. I don't fault anyone for this. Taste is subjective, and with Arelith's growth, there needed to be some kind of codification for a largely arbitrary and hollistic decision.

Maybe if there was some kind of incentive to change, there would be more of it. I am surprised that so many others have also recognized the problems -- this means people know this is an issue, but seem resigned to that being the state of things.

to the point of most who have replied, i agree there is no feasible solution. it would require a concentrated and consistent effort of influential community members and staff, in addition to system/policy changes. its just not feasible, objectively or subjectively.

i appreciate the encouragement to keep on doing and lead by example. thank you for all your thought provoking answers thus far.

[MissEvelyn]

Unfortunately, Arelith's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness: How open and inviting the server is. This is a good thing, but it also produces its own set of challenges, which often means it brings in masses of people. And some of those people may be more suited for something Roleplay-lite rather than a fully immersive experience.

I'm not saying those people are bad or wrong, mind you, not at all; we all have different preferences. But when Arelith caters to literally anyone as long as they don't skirt too far from the rules, it does make up a world where people will use modern terms, modern mindsets, and have less care for the Forgotten Realms setting.

Short of narrowing the server's vision (which isn't something we players can do anyway), I agree with the proposals above; as a player, lead by example and the rest will fall in line. Or at least, that is what we're hoping for =)

[Crookedblossom]

I feel for you, because there have been a lot of times that I experience the things you've mentioned. I've played a faction leader and a factionless wanderer (my only two characters so far) and I've managed to see both sides of what you're talking about. I can offer some advice that really helped me get through some awkward, immersion-breaking moments:

Firstly, reporting isn't just for penalizing. It is a good way to draw DM focus to a player or group of players that may need a little explaining to about server integrity, and that just comes from them being new. When you report a player, punishment isn't always the outcome. The DMs are here to enforce rules, but they also act as guidance on how best to follow those rules and adhere to the setting. Adding in your report that you think they may need to be spoken to about setting integrity is fine and does not result in a smack, but rather a gentle push in the right direction.

Secondly, "be the change you want to see" is great advice and I wholeheartedly support you being the shining example of immersive roleplay to help other players along. This can lead to OOC tells over-analyzing or explaining a situation that you simply want to enjoy IC. I'm not sure if you know, but the -notells function has a means of blocking specific players, on top of its blanket "no tells" option. You can even turn tells back on after things cool off! This is a great tool to allow yourself to enjoy the moment without the unwanted OOC attention.

Turning tells off may feel like you're being dismissive, but you're not. It's a tool meant to allow you to keep focus IC without it shifting to the meta.

Thirdly, please don't feel pressured to hop into discord groups or to try and get to know players unless that's something that brings you joy. I've made a few good friends on this server. I've also had better stories and more fun out of just tuning out OOC and letting things progress naturally IC. Discord is an optional tool. You are no less an impactful player for foregoing it. I promise you that.

The team is expanding, which I'm hopeful can allow for more DMs around to address immersion-breaking scenarios. Reporting vocabulary that is at best modern and at worst exclusionary is not what I would consider a "micro-instance." Reporting also allows for a record to be formed, which the DMs can later reference if said behavior is not corrected or continues on. I know it can feel like, "This is such a small and petty thing, I'm just being overly sensitive." But your report need not reflect sensitivity. Conduct your reports factually and clinically, and the DMs will see where you're coming from.

I hope some of this helps, and that it doesn't sound dismissive. I hope you continue to enjoy playing, I've had interactions with your character and I've really enjoyed it. From that, I can tell you that it really does influence other people to see well-played stories.

[Kenji]

The flippancy you mentioned in regards to slaying dragons is a natural side effect of the server's level cap. If you can slay ancient dragons single-handedly they kinda stop being these mystical almighty beings.

What I'm hearing here is that we need to buff all the mobs on the server to turn this into Dark Souls.

[Marsi]

I've found the biggest threat to my immersion is not the new player or the inexperienced roleplayer. It's the midwit. It's the technically competent but spiritually dead player. The terminally bored/boring who are either so detached they pervade unfunness, or so absorbed with winning the Latest Drama and getting the last word in on the messageboard that they don't have time to respond to our setting with the appropriate sense of wonder and delight (or terror and grief). Any event or happening that is not managed by DMs is a nuisance or not "real" enough to warrant genuine character writing. Every ruler is a tyrant, every provincial belief is bigotry, every group of new bright things are akshully death squads, death/loss didn't happen or if it did my god will just revive me, and anyone who hasn't been a part of some longstanding low-friction/high-status bureaucracy is a "who are you again?". Tell me you don't notice this manner of response from a large segment of Arelith's supposedly good roleplayers toward almost any kind of event or story beat.

Even the nonverbal craft lurker is more an "inhabitant" of the world for me. The "unwashed masses" I'm fine with. I could adventure with painfully naive, hardly in character Skaljardians and have fun, still feel a connection between our characters and the world. Anyone with honest intentions my immersion can withstand.

[Crookedblossom]

I've found the biggest threat to my immersion is not the new player or the inexperienced roleplayer. It's the midwit. It's the technically competent but spiritually dead player. The terminally bored/boring who are either so detached they pervade unfunness, or so absorbed with winning the Latest Drama and getting the last word in on the messageboard that they don't have time to respond to our setting with the appropriate sense of wonder and delight (or terror and grief). Any event or happening that is not managed by DMs is a nuisance or not "real" enough to warrant genuine character writing. Every ruler is a tyrant, every provincial belief is bigotry, every group of new bright things are akshully death squads, death/loss didn't happen or if it did my god will just revive me, and anyone who hasn't been a part of some longstanding low-friction/high-status bureaucracy is a "who are you again?". Tell me you don't notice this manner of response from a large segment of Arelith's supposedly good roleplayers toward almost any kind of event or story beat.

Even the nonverbal craft lurker is more an "inhabitant" of the world for me. The "unwashed masses" I'm fine with. I could adventure with painfully naive, hardly in character Skaljardians and have fun, still feel a connection between our characters and the world. Anyone with honest intentions my immersion can withstand.

I very much agree. And I think you've worded eloquently enough some of my biggest eye-rollers I've experienced during roleplay. Though while I think there is value in pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, from my personal perspective, I just get deflated if I sit and dwell on all the times these things have happened to me. I try to give my fellow players the benefit of the doubt, but too much of that can get you caught up in endlessly trying to please people that just aren't intent on being pleased.

Your post has reminded me of another bit of advice that has done me well.

While being a shining example of roleplay is good and yes, you reap what you sow in terms of quality - you are under no obligation to tutor every example of the opposite. Taking in and showing new players around can be a cool and fun experience, but I would be dishonest if I pretended like all these instances were simply new players misunderstanding. There are going to be some folks who just don't get the dopamine from Arelith and it shows. You can be kind, be nice, but don't put your fun on the line to break yourself for someone who ignores it when you bend.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Sometimes, you need to form benevolent cliques to make Arelith fun. Or, to use kinder language, a "playgroup."

You can't make fun for everyone - and not everyone has your idea of fun. Your goal is to find folks who have the notion of fun as you, and jive with them. It's a heavy burden, but I think it is what ultimately leads to long-term success.

I still feel like "modern Arelith" actually hasn't hit its period of "storytelling greatness." There's been widesweeping mechanical changes that have incentivized a large emphasis on mechanics-first. Irongron's snuck in some massive narrative changes (like the world itself) but players have yet (imo) to catch on.

I think, if the pace of mechanics slows, you'll eventually get this new big cohort of players shift their mindset from "5% is cool I guess" to "why am I here again? o right, to roleplay."

That's my optimism.

[Hazard]

I've found the biggest threat to my immersion is not the new player or the inexperienced roleplayer. It's the midwit. It's the technically competent but spiritually dead player. The terminally bored/boring who are either so detached they pervade unfunness, or so absorbed with winning the Latest Drama and getting the last word in on the messageboard that they don't have time to respond to our setting with the appropriate sense of wonder and delight (or terror and grief). Any event or happening that is not managed by DMs is a nuisance or not "real" enough to warrant genuine character writing. Every ruler is a tyrant, every provincial belief is bigotry, every group of new bright things are akshully death squads, death/loss didn't happen or if it did my god will just revive me, and anyone who hasn't been a part of some longstanding low-friction/high-status bureaucracy is a "who are you again?". Tell me you don't notice this manner of response from a large segment of Arelith's supposedly good roleplayers toward almost any kind of event or story beat.

Even the nonverbal craft lurker is more an "inhabitant" of the world for me. The "unwashed masses" I'm fine with. I could adventure with painfully naive, hardly in character Skaljardians and have fun, still feel a connection between our characters and the world. Anyone with honest intentions my immersion can withstand.

^

[Arienette]

As others have said, one of the biggest contributors to this is insane character turnover.

"Rolling" has always been a thing, of course. But back when I first started Arelith, it was kind of a "big deal".

IC: Did you hear Jim died? Did you hear Jim left the island? Wow.

OOC: Oh man, Jim rolled. RIP Jim.

Now it doesn't even register. I assume most characters I meet will be shelved or rolled before my character gets a chance to know them to any reasonable extent.

I have been playing my current Main since around Christmas and virtually every character he got to know early on is long gone. He is somehow an "old veteran" in his corner of the server which seems insane to me.

I really wish staff would consider adding some other qualifier to reward rolls. Or to otherwise stabilize the PC population in some way.

[2d6 emotional damage]

I've found the biggest threat to my immersion is not the new player or the inexperienced roleplayer. It's the midwit. It's the technically competent but spiritually dead player. The terminally bored/boring who are either so detached they pervade unfunness, or so absorbed with winning the Latest Drama and getting the last word in on the messageboard that they don't have time to respond to our setting with the appropriate sense of wonder and delight (or terror and grief). Any event or happening that is not managed by DMs is a nuisance or not "real" enough to warrant genuine character writing. Every ruler is a tyrant, every provincial belief is bigotry, every group of new bright things are akshully death squads, death/loss didn't happen or if it did my god will just revive me, and anyone who hasn't been a part of some longstanding low-friction/high-status bureaucracy is a "who are you again?". Tell me you don't notice this manner of response from a large segment of Arelith's supposedly good roleplayers toward almost any kind of event or story beat.

Even the nonverbal craft lurker is more an "inhabitant" of the world for me. The "unwashed masses" I'm fine with. I could adventure with painfully naive, hardly in character Skaljardians and have fun, still feel a connection between our characters and the world. Anyone with honest intentions my immersion can withstand.

i have never felt more seen and heard in my entire life.

[Emotionaloverload]

Irongron's snuck in some massive narrative changes (like the world itself) but players have yet (imo) to catch on.

This is the one that I have run into the most that is jarring to setting. Some Players either don't know about the narrative changes or simply refuse to acknowledge them because its not 'how we do things'.

Aside from leading by example, I'm really not sure how you can solve this. Just try to have fun as much as possible and make fun for others. Eventually you will find characters that stay in the setting and lore.

-S