Remove sexualized chestpieces and robes

[Ork]

One of our greatest rules is no erotic roleplay. This includes sexual innuendo, cybering, alluding to sex act, etc.

But for some reason we've added in clothing options like these.



I know that clothing choices are limited for females particularly because the vast majority of content from the greater nwn community is aimed at sexualizing their avatars, but these clothing pieces shouldn't be permitted into arelith on the pretext of erotic roleplay.

[Security_Blanket]

If you wanted to play a seductive woman while still keeping it tasteful, too bad! No cleavage for you! I think this is silly, they're not that bad and where does this end exactly? Do we also remove the bare chest from male characters?

[Ork]

I had no idea you couldn't play a seductive character without these options. Huh. I think the line is jiggle boob chest models and the robes with jiggle boobs.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

I don't really see this as an issue. I mean, how far are you going to take it? Ban people from playing characters that worship Sharess next?

And don't forget, pre-haks most of the female shirt clothing options were this way. I'm glad haks have given female characters some decent clothing.

[Ork]

I personally would ban the worship of sharess. The whole nature of the deity is sensual pleasure, and I don't know if the DMs are keeping tally but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Erotic RP bans happen to come from bast's faithful.

[Edens_Fall]

I disagree. 80% of looking good, or as some might consider sexy, is for oneself and not for Elf RP. God's know I could never wear most of the outfits in Arelith with any sense of confidence.

Such a path also begs the question "where does it stop?" Don't forget anyone can remove armor and run about in small clothes at any given moment, which is much more taboo then these outfits.

My thought is to keep things as is. Punish the rule breakers and not those whom enjoy dressing up, looking nice, or living out a confidence filled fantasy.

[Paint]

One thing that ork does bring up that I agree with is that a -lot- of the female options aren't particularly modest. As someone who likes to play female characters who do lean more on the modest side of things, I kind of struggle with a few clothing options that really fit the image I'm going for. That's sort of the nature of NWN, though. The only way, I think, to really address that problem specifically would be to roll one's sleeves up and take a good crack at modeling yourself.

I've tried to get into modeling, but found Blender to be a bizarre landscape that has been tough for me to tackle. I might give it another go some day soon, though.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I understand where Ork is coming from, it kind of sets precedent/atmosphere when you have x amount of players and dealing with 'odds of happening'.

This is building a fence around a fence though and arelith doesnt hardrule fences around fences for a reason. The actual rules though are very very important.

These options for many, are against the spirit as Ork says, but for many it's just fashion.

As for drawing the line, the question you should ask "are you comfortable with your barely teenager kid playing on this server" and that would be a starting point, but is also a subjective question to the individual and I ultimately think Edens' conclusion is correction (though the premise of dressing like that real life or not really has nothing to do with Ork's concerns) in that we need to keep policing rule breakers.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I don't know Ork. I tend to agree with you a lot, and I don't like romance rp at all personally and get really uncomfortable when people hit on my female characters (which still happens despite never wearing the sexy outfits). But this seems like a rather long reach to me.

[Waldo52]

Ork, I enjoy a lot of your posts and opinions but I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. There's nothing broken here to fix.

I would agree that more female chest models could be added that looked more battle ready and whatnot, but I don't see the need to remove anything.

[Hazard]

It's the Forgotten Realms, not medival England, and neither are we in the 50s in a cult-like religious country.
There's nothing 'wrong' or 'immoral' about showing skin. I'd like to think the comments I've seen about this are IC flaws and personal issues that character needs to work through, but if they're showing up OOC I have concerns.

We don't all have the same cultural stigmas and taboos. I for one do not think someone is 'sexualised' just because I can see some stomach or a thigh, especially not in a fantasy setting where those things are normal and there are entire races/cultures who would be dressing that way (or similarly).

I don't come here to RP some extremist fundamentalist Christian version of the Forgotten Realms.

In all the countries I've lived in, it's perfectly normal and acceptable to wear something like that ^
Especially in the summer.

I think this is taking it too far. So far infact, that if people want to take it this far.. I think they need a good hard look at themselves, and possibly therapy.

Peace out. I've had enough forums for a long time. Yikes.

[Exordius]

Lets not bring woke crap into the game please, thank you.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

I should expand on my thoughts more about why I don't think it's bad. Most of the time when I see a character dressed in a skimpy outfit, it's just that. It's an outfit. Sometimes they're nature walkers, some very respectable RPers play scantly clad nature walkers. And I think that's fine! That's a really common fantasy archetype with both male and female characters. Other times it's martial artists, other times it's just how they look. I very rarely encounter people who dress that way because they're trying to be erotic.

And the example picture in the top post is silly because there are pg13 examples of clothing like that. Even in real life, you're not going to get arrested for indecency for wearing that.

I don't personally like Sharess or Sune RP or social RP that focuses on love and beauty. But just because I don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. There's a lot of non-sexual ways to pursue these concepts, and as long as people aren't having cybersex I don't see the issue. What I like and don't like shouldn't dictate the server rules, the RP I like a lot of people find stressful.

Lastly I want to touch on what haks have done for female clothing options because I've seen a few people express concerns. Prior to haks there were very, very few good shirt models. After haks were introduced, a whole lot of options opened up. I highly recommend people check it out. I was really impressed with the wide variety of outfits I could make. There's a not a huge drought of female clothing options anymore. I made a whole bunch of outfits for different purposes when I made Corinne and liked the wide variety of things I could do.

[Kenji]

when everyone picks the same character on super smash bros

[TurningLeaf]

Titillation =/= E.R.P. Isn't the guideline PG-13? Surely nobody will be so willfully and annoyingly dense that we need to dig up links demonstrating these outfits fall within the PG-13 standard.

[MissEvelyn]

These clothing options are neither sexualized nor too much. It's rather telling when you seem to imply that they are.

I actually find it a little insulting towards women, to imply that their outfits are sexualized, when they really are wearing something that might make them feel good and confident.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Lets not bring woke crap into the game please, thank you.

You kinda did with this statement though. He's presenting a view of something related to the rules of the game. I agree the connection is a stretch, but it's nothing more than that.

A bit of a history lesson for you, however, albeit recent history. "Stay Woke" was never anything more then another snappy way of saying goodbye that caught on, similar to "peace out" and "hang loose". Carnival barkers like Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones turned it into something political, and their lovely audience ate it up like deep fried bologna wrapped in bacon and smothered in cheese whiz.

So unless you meant "lets just say goodbye instead of making up silly ways of saying it" there is no such thing as Woke Crap, its just propaganda to make you angry and keep you watching so ratings go up and advertisement dollars follow.

[La Villa Strangiato]

It's the Forgotten Realms, not medival England, and neither are we in the 50s in a cult-like religious country.
[...]

I don't come here to RP some extremist fundamentalist Christian version of the Forgotten Realms.

[...]

I think this is taking it too far. So far infact, that if people want to take it this far.. I think they need a good hard look at themselves, and possibly therapy.

[...]

Yeah, pretty much this. What year is it, 1952?

[Flower Power]

All I have to say on this topic is that if these clothes are fine, I should be able to say synonyms for poop.

Having one but not the other is really, really silly.

[Lass is Class]

Outfits and amount of options is through the roof, for all sorts of characters, both borderline nude to fully covered, wearing only 45 and 63 blacks.

Also, I doubt that percentage of Sharessan followers being involved in rulebreaks related to Elven Roleplay will be that high. Definitelly lower than that of Seldarine or Shar in comparison. (and it is called elven roleplay for a reason)

Banning Sharess would make no more sense for the PG-13 or 16 auditory, than not banning for example Lolth (and drow in general) or Fierna alongside.

Also applying modern modesty tastes onto multicultural world of Faerun that does it moderately differently from ours, can be souring the experience sometimes. We should't project our personal tastes through our characters or expect other characters to treat things as we are used to IRL.
--
That being said, author is correct about folks sometimes pushing those kind of attires too far and being a risk group to incite rulebreaking. "Be careful till you see them playing the game and making sense of how they dress the PC".

The one in question looks very sus.

[Rico_scorpion]

While I don't use them myself (or very rarely if it fits the concept), there is variety in the game to fit most people's tastes. There is freedom and wiggle room within the current rules.
If there is cybering let it be handled by the DMs with harsh punishment and bans.

Neo-puritanism isn't something that is widespread worldwide. Actually, it is quite the contrary. This is removing other players' toys because you don't like them. It is a very slippery slope of censorship that is tragically modern but very much toxic.

I hope Arelith will always strongly push back against that and will never fall into that trap (catering to player sensibilities through censorship). There is no victory at the end once you start saying yes to these requests. It reminds me of this player wanting to change/alter/remove the current vision of Sibayad because it is Orientalism and henceforth is racist. Go through with one of these requests, and you embolden them all. We have to stand firm in the idea that the real world problems have no place within the fantasy world of Arelith and its creative vision. We are not trying to make the world a better place through that medium, we are not trying to reflect on the real world through the medium of Arelith, we are just trying to immerse ourselves in it and have fun while respecting the established rules. It is very much escapism, and to a degree, it is freedom. Removing content to spare one's sensibilities should be a line that is never crossed in my opinion.

And given the current trajectory of art/fiction/creation since the last 10 years, I for one do not take that escapism for granted at all. It is very much fragile.

[MRFTW]

Yikesworthy thread.

[-XXX-]

Let's not confuse attempts at telling women what they can or cannot wear with female empowerment.

Furthermore:

One of our greatest rules is no erotic roleplay. This includes sexual innuendo, cybering, alluding to sex act, etc.

There's a lot of creative license used in the above statement.
The actual rule reads:

We do not tolerate unwarranted rudeness, harassment and poor gamesmanship.

Arelith is a ‘PG-13’ server, cybering is not permitted.

[Irongron]

There is a lot to be unhappy about with how fantasy games and other media present women, and even the default stance of the female models in NWN can be annoying to me.

I do, however, have no issue at all with revealing clothing, on men or women. I've found that almost everyone, male and female play attractive characters to some extent, and so long as there is a reasonable amount of choice so players aren't forced to dress like that, I see no issue. People shouldn't feel ashamed to wear particular clothing, if that's what they wish to do. It's absolutely fine for a female character to wear a low cut top, just as it's fine for my barbarian to parade around in is furry barbarian underpants. Nudity and sex are not the same thing.

[gryggrstrkssontreelover]

Anyone with a description informing people that they are buxom and incredibly attractive or well-built and horrifically scarred should be removed from the game and deleted. I am not jesting.