Summons are overpowered

[Nurel]

Haste being a very powerful effect is hardly a shocking revelantion.

I expected the lack of Mass Haste on divine casters be substituted by the abilty to heal your summons, which arcane casters lack completely.

[Hazard]

Haste being a very powerful effect is hardly a shocking revelantion.

I expected the lack of Mass Haste on divine casters be substituted by the abilty to heal your summons, which arcane casters lack completely.

Being able to heal them is definitely a bonus divine have, but it still doesn't come anywhere close to the benefit of a mass haste. Mass haste is just that good. You're going to run out of heals in pve very quickly, and in pvp you're probably never going to heal a summon.

[Naghast]

Dismissal and banishment spells are will saves, both of which a summon will easily pass when it's cast from a trinket.
However
It does still prevent new summons from being brought to the battlefield.

[Hazard]

Dismissal and banishment spells are will saves, both of which a summon will easily pass when it's cast from a trinket.
However
It does still prevent new summons from being brought to the battlefield.

You can also use it before a fight to prevent anything being summoned.

[Helsing]

They perform fine in PvE, they're useless in PvP except for buying you a round or few

This really gets me. I dont understand this perspective.

They dont perform 'fine' in pve, they perform amazing. I say this based on the fact that they have close to (if not better) stats than lvl 30 melee builds. I think the sheets of the summons screenshot by players here and on discord say it all.

In pvp, well, I dont think they are insanely broken op but saying they just buy you 'a round or few' as if it's not an incredibly huge value baffles me. A lot of them have more than 52 ab, they cannot be ignored by anyone except the most extreme ac tank builds. While some builds are better than others at destroying summons via spells/abilities, most of these said other builds may not have any relevant ac against them, or a good method of dismissing them outside of spending 2 whole rounds and investing into 50+ lore or having UMD, and against most builds, summons are very effective in PVP.

I actually think it would be cool if summons were MORE reliable in pve and pvp, but less lethal. 52 ab is ridiculous. No one needs that much for pve.

Everyone has said enough here and AstralUniverse summed it up best.

[Hazard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2J3EjYBYuU

Same.

[Naghast]

Clarification: lethality is a combination of ab and damage and attacks per round.

A summon can even have 100 ab but if it has 2 attacks per round and deals 26 damage per hit, no one is going to respect it.

But aside from that, i feel like this thread can be locked at this point. It gets to things being repeated, and ppl ignoring other posts to nitpick things.

[Helsing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2J3EjYBYuU

Same.

I can understand you don't want your summons to be nerfed, but what AstralUniverse commented is also very true.

Here's the stats of BG's fully buffed Fiend, not even Conduit from casters (and they have two). Noted a lvl 30 WM has 54 AC, around 50 AB.

https://imgur.com/a/FTym0qM

https://imgur.com/a/MX8uOpJ

[Naghast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2J3EjYBYuU

Same.

I can understand you don't want your summons to be nerfed, but what AstralUniverse commented is also very true.

Here's the stats of BG's fully buffed Fiend, not even Conduit from casters (and they have two). Noted a lvl 30 WM has 54 AC, around 50 AB.

https://imgur.com/a/FTym0qM

https://imgur.com/a/MX8uOpJ

I'd ask for your setup here too. Specific buffs and consumables used, and class/feat setup. I detailed mine, in my own posts.

[Hazard]

I can understand you don't want your summons to be nerfed, but what AstralUniverse commented is also very true.

I don't have summons to be nerfed. Playing a deep rogue atm.

2 rounds your summon is gone. I don't see your point, sorry. Please refer to my post earlier in the thread.

[-XXX-]

not even Conduit from casters

IDK what stats do you think conduit summons have, but here's a CL30 ESF:conju with mass zoo ESF transmu*:


-----
* that's about the best it can get. CL30 also means no discipline - so we're talking going all in on summons here.

[Helsing]

not even Conduit from casters

IDK what stats do you think conduit summons have, but here's a CL30 ESF:conju with mass zoo ESF transmu*:


-----
* that's about the best it can get. CL30 also means no discipline - so we're talking going all in on summons here.

This is a 27 enchant wiz/3 bard.

I will stop here as this is becoming pointless, because You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep, and arguing PvP counters is pointless imo because there's always a counter to counter.

https://imgur.com/a/J1MhQnM

https://imgur.com/a/zfVWs6N

[Hazard]

... summons are very effective in PVP.

Everyone has said enough here and AstralUniverse summed it up best.

arguing PvP counters is pointless

Okay, well. Thread over I guess.

Time to nerf mummy dust and elemental swarm, because if you don't counter planar conduit it is very effective in PVP.

[-XXX-]

I will stop here

Good.
Because it sure seemed like somebody was cherrypicking combat logs for attacks made with the flanking bonus just to make the AB look higher than it actually is over there.

[Sincra]

I think this thread has served it's purpose and there's no reason to get heated here.
We have been reading this.

For now, however, gonna lock this.