Death Amnesia Reminder

[Amateur Hour]

I was going to write a suggestion for this, but I realized I think it may be better a discussion topic before it gets refined into a suggestion.

At the moment, there is a rule that a character cannot remember the circumstances of their death. This is clearly stated on the Rules page. However, in the last two weeks I've seen two pretty flagrant violations of it, and it seems as if the players completely forgot this rule. This causes a problem for RP because when someone comes up to your character and starts screaming about their death, how are your characters supposed to respond? I feel like there needs to be some kind of unavoidable reminder in the fugue plane so people are hit in the face with the fact that they have to roleplay death amnesia.

The question is where would such a reminder be most helpful. My gut instinct is to make it so the portal to life wasn't just a "touch-the-light-and-live" interaction but rather opened a dialog box that says something like "When you return to life, you will remember nothing of the circumstances of your death or your time in the fugue plane" and requires someone to select "I understand" to return, but does anyone else have other ideas?

[perseid]

A dialogue similar to the one for accepting resurrections might be a good idea. It should be more flushed out than the suggested text however, ideally it would communicate a full understanding of the death rules or else people will just get mad later when someone who read the actual rules remembers vague details from rules-legal moments.

[MissEvelyn]

Make sure to also actually report instances where the rules are broken, or DMs might never know it happened. They can only catch so much with their limited free time.

[Amateur Hour]

Make sure to also actually report instances where the rules are broken, or DMs might never know it happened. They can only catch so much with their limited free time.

Thank you for the reminder; reports have alrleady been submitted regarding the rulebreaks I referred to in my original post.

I brought up the fact it's happened recently multiple times because I think that the rule existing and the report mechanism existing seem to not be enough to keep people following said rule (and that you can end up with a "metagame chain" where people were told metagamed information - and avoiding death amnesia is metagaming now - and pass it on in good faith to people who pass it on in good faith etc.), hence why there may need to be a change somewhere to help guide player behavior.

[Spriggan Bride]

The big loophole in death amnesia is someone being told how they died after the fact. If there were witnesses or if the killer brags about their victory you can't expect the person to not use info they're given after their death by someone else. If someone was killed in The Hub in front of many others you can probably expect they'll be told who did it later, for example.

I don't think that's always behind these rule breaches but it does happen and can complicate things.

[Paint]

The big loophole in death amnesia is someone being told how they died after the fact. If there were witnesses or if the killer brags about their victory you can't expect the person to not use info they're given after their death by someone else. If someone was killed in The Hub in front of many others you can probably expect they'll be told who did it later, for example.

I don't think that's always behind these rule breaches but it does happen and can complicate things.

I think this touches on the awkward nature of adjudicating the problem as-is. People might not remember how they died -- or even if they did, but if they're told x and y and both things make sense, then they know. And characters are allowed to tell your character things. Your character is allowed to believe them or disbelieve them. So if you kill someone and there's witnesses or survivors, then yeah, it's probably going to get back to the person you killed.

The more... awkward... situations are when person a dies within five to ten minutes of person b, and because they weren't dead -yet- they claim that that they saw who person b was killed by. Case by case, I guess. Shrug.

Even so, report if you think there's a violation. Maybe there wasn't, but establishing patterns is the best way to get rid of bad actors.

The whole spirit of the rule is to prevent the lowest common denominator interaction of, "You killed me, so me and my friends are going to kill you!" which is often boring, repetitive, leads to OOC frustration, and is typically in poor taste. If you're performing these activities, whether or not you literally broke the rule and you get reported enough over it, I'm fairly convinced you'll get a talking to anyways, as people who consistently skirt the lines of what are acceptable often see punishment for it.

So, you know. If you see something crummy, then report it.

[AskRyze]

I was going to write a suggestion for this, but I realized I think it may be better a discussion topic before it gets refined into a suggestion.

At the moment, there is a rule that a character cannot remember the circumstances of their death. This is clearly stated on the Rules page. However, in the last two weeks I've seen two pretty flagrant violations of it, and it seems as if the players completely forgot this rule. This causes a problem for RP because when someone comes up to your character and starts screaming about their death, how are your characters supposed to respond? I feel like there needs to be some kind of unavoidable reminder in the fugue plane so people are hit in the face with the fact that they have to roleplay death amnesia.

The question is where would such a reminder be most helpful. My gut instinct is to make it so the portal to life wasn't just a "touch-the-light-and-live" interaction but rather opened a dialog box that says something like "When you return to life, you will remember nothing of the circumstances of your death or your time in the fugue plane" and requires someone to select "I understand" to return, but does anyone else have other ideas?

Yes. 100% yes.

There are, to this day, players who don't use the forums and don't use discord. They don't catch all these little rulings. It still says 24 hours on all the 'in game' reminders and rules messages.

Please, please, please add this rule to the Light so that people actually catch the message.

[Power Word, Haste]

A dialogue box popping up before respawning with a notice about not remembering the circumstances of your death would probably help this issue a lot. I agree with Amateur Hour, I see this rule being broken constantly. I report it every time, but measures can still be taken to try and prevent people from doing it. For example, the aforementioned dialogue box could have the respawn be tied to the response that says something along the lines of 'I understand the rules about death amnesia and am ready to respawn." Sure, they can still blow past it by clicking 1 immediately as they touch the light, but if it helps some people reconsider what they're going to do regarding RPing their own death, that's a win.

[Spyre]

Code changes are needed and it will take time.

As well, the journal and old resource books spawned on entry need to be cleaned up. I imagine someone will pick it up eventually.

[Amateur Hour]

A dialogue box popping up before respawning with a notice about not remembering the circumstances of your death would probably help this issue a lot. I agree with Amateur Hour, I see this rule being broken constantly. I report it every time, but measures can still be taken to try and prevent people from doing it. For example, the aforementioned dialogue box could have the respawn be tied to the response that says something along the lines of 'I understand the rules about death amnesia and am ready to respawn." Sure, they can still blow past it by clicking 1 immediately as they touch the light, but if it helps some people reconsider what they're going to do regarding RPing their own death, that's a win.

I'd propose the dialogue box look almost exactly like the following:

Death Rules Reminders

If you died in PvP, you MUST NOT interact with the characters who killed you for 48 hours (real-time) after your death, nor may they interact with you. You may waive this rule, but only by mutual agreement.

Whether you died in PvP or PvE, you MUST NOT remember the circumstances of your death, including how you died and who killed you. You must forget enough information to leave your cause of death ambiguous.

1. Cancel.
2. I understand and will abide by Arelith's death rules.

Importantly, the option to "accept" and respawn is option two. This can do a lot to force people to slow down and read the dialog box.

[Cthuletta]

I've also seen this rule broken quite a bit, it seems to come and go in waves, and there is a lot of nuance to be had with 'being told you died' that could probably be another forum topic entirely. xD
However with a lot of people, they'll just hit 'I understand' or 'Yes' or what-have you in a dialogue box just to make the text go away and completely miss it.

What if, instead, we had like a Green-Text pop up once you ARE raised or respawned, and out of the Fugue, with something to the effect of- 'You don't remember where you are or how you got here...'

Personally I think I'd like that a little bit more, as it'd add to immersion instead of an OOC text box every time we die? Both good suggestions, I'd be on board for either, I'd just prefer that!

[Amateur Hour]

What if, instead, we had like a Green-Text pop up once you ARE raised or respawned, and out of the Fugue, with something to the effect of- 'You don't remember where you are or how you got here...'

I like the idea in theory? My one concern is that a 48-hour-rule reminder would also be wise, and that has to be an OOC reminder.

[Cthuletta]

I like the idea in theory? My one concern is that a 48-hour-rule reminder would also be wise, and that has to be an OOC reminder.

That's also a fair point, I was moreso focusing on the amnesia part specifically for death in general. Having a reminder of the 48-hour rule would likely be pretty beneficial, granted most people I know who PvP regularly are well-versed in the rulings, but that's not everyone.
Maybe both?

[AstralUniverse]

There's more than one way to do things of course, but I think a good way to avoid 'tricky' situations when someone tells you about your own death is simply to not believe them, or at least not believe them right away and see if there's an angle for a good plot or not before you believe them.

[Amateur Hour]

There's more than one way to do things of course, but I think a good way to avoid 'tricky' situations when someone tells you about your own death is simply to not believe them, or at least not believe them right away and see if there's an angle for a good plot or not before you believe them.

Wise choice in general. I think the situations Power Word, Haste and I are thinking of, however, are more...

1. You see someone get killed by XYZ.

2. Five real-life minutes later, the killed character is walking right back towards their scene of death.

3. They start confidently insisting they were just murdered by XYZ and are demanding justice.

4. No one who was present has left the area, making it exceedingly unlikely that the character was given a detailed account of their death.

[MissEvelyn]

I'd propose the dialogue box look almost exactly like the following:

Death Rules Reminders

If you died in PvP, you MUST NOT interact with the characters who killed you for 48 hours (real-time) after your death, nor may they interact with you. You may waive this rule, but only by mutual agreement.

Whether you died in PvP or PvE, you MUST NOT remember the circumstances of your death, including how you died and who killed you. You must forget enough information to leave your cause of death ambiguous.

In addition, that main text should pop up in your combat log as soon as you enter the Fugue.

[AstralUniverse]

There's more than one way to do things of course, but I think a good way to avoid 'tricky' situations when someone tells you about your own death is simply to not believe them, or at least not believe them right away and see if there's an angle for a good plot or not before you believe them.

Wise choice in general. I think the situations Power Word, Haste and I are thinking of, however, are more...

1. You see someone get killed by XYZ.

2. Five real-life minutes later, the killed character is walking right back towards their scene of death.

3. They start confidently insisting they were just murdered by XYZ and are demanding justice.

4. No one who was present has left the area, making it exceedingly unlikely that the character was given a detailed account of their death.

That sounds like an obvious case of not being up to date with the rule change and I agree that the rule should be more in-yo-face to make sure everyone gets the memo.