Relative Writ XP Rate

[tessimon]

One thing I've noticed over several characters is my time-to-level shrinks from level 6->21. It easier for me to find writs that give me a higher % of my XP needed to level and their time to complete isn't significantly different.

As a recent anecdotal example, it took me 30 minutes from acceptance to turning in my writs at level 17 today which was worth 18K (106% of my level) in writ XP alone. At level 10 it took about an hour to complete 3 writs that were worth 6.5K (65% of my level). To a certain extent this matters writ to writ but tends to be a trend I've seen over multiple characters. Obviously I cannot speak for others here.

A few points:

1. There is no way to know how much XP a writ will give before completing it barring OOC knowledge as far as I know. Sometimes they follow a pattern (ex: higher max level = more writ XP) but not always. Sometimes it can be counter-intuitive where an easier, shorter writ gives more XP than a longer, more difficult one.
2. If my PC makes a friend that's a little lower level and we party sometimes but not every day, if I had a head start the level gap is likely to widen for the same amount of time played. Same applies to an early rival.

Questions:

1. Is there a major reason why writs do not give a % of your level upon completion? I understand that you might want to give more writ XP based on difficulty/novelty. As a counter-point it's not like the druid with an elemental swarm has the same challenge as a rogue doing a writ.
2. If novelty is a concern and % of total level isn't desirable, could it list expected XP reward before taking the writ? Or make gold reward proportional to XP so you can tell that way. That way it doesn't require OOC knowledge.

My apologies as the questions could technically be suggestions, I felt this should be in feedback for the critique portion and could use other people's input as I only have my own personal experience to go off of.

[AstralUniverse]

I definitely agree that it gets easier to complete full level ups the higher level you are and it's, intuitively, supposed to be the exact opposite.

Leveling from lvl 3 to lvl 8 takes me quite a lot of time, where as leveling from 18 to 22 takes probably 1/4th of that time. I would personally much prefer if leveling to around 10 would be the easy part and leveling onwards would get slower and slower in comparison. I only speak for myself but I think it would be much better. Even the exp required to level raises by 1k every level but this is like trying to stop a train by shooting it with a rubber gun when we look at the drastic increase in clear speed between lvls 5 and 16 for melee character, and the drastic spike in writs rewards for lvl 17+ writs. Suddenly things give 10k and such..

Something I had in mind. If it would be possible to artificially override the exp scaling of level ups so after lvl 21 the tnl goes by 2k rather than 1k. Give people more time to do writs and make friends.

[Shadowy Reality]

Agreed. Roughly 3 writs give you a full level, maybe a bit more depending on writs.

And this does not change through levels, you are still getting that level per day all the way to 30. Would love if it slowed down.

[magistrasa]

This topic pops up now and again, yes, and there's a poll up on the forums that says everything is totally fine the way things are - and I agree with the general sentiment that overall we're at a better place than we used to be 2-3 years ago - but that doesn't mean it's not worth giving the subject its due consideration. Though we should acknowledge that many factors play into the discussion, such as RPR, build capabilities, UD vs Surface, ECL vs starting level gift. Still, even with all these things in consideration, no one can deny that the average time spent at pre-epic levels has drastically reduced over the years.

On my current UD character, I got from level 1 to 25 in around 6 days of active play. 3-5 hours of activity. Just from doing writs. No circle-grinding involved. I'm not sure if that's a problem, necessarily, but I think it's contributed to my tendency nowadays to sort of wander aimlessly around populated areas while trying to find someone my character can connect with - which is admittedly made more difficult due to the self-imposed social handicap that comes with the concept I'm playing right now. Still, repeated failures to find a social niche for my character have me feeling kinda... friendless and alone. I can't help but wonder if my fast-paced blitz through the lower levels robbed me of the opportunity to connect with people who my character might have been able to forge an unlikely bond with due to the circumstances of necessity. All the while, I know that if I tried to reach out to people via ooc means, that issue would quickly be resolved. It's like a siren song, tempting me ever closer towards the devil's discord server. I'm not going to pretend that's all squarely the fault of XP-gain rates, but it's something I think about from time to time. I once enjoyed leveling with randoms. Now the only time I run into people in a writ dungeon is when they're an epic level coal miner. Now I have dozens and dozens of writs with the association agent that I once felt compelled to complete because I lingered within that level range for so long.

I've been around for too many years, so I remember when in-game relationships formed organically just by finding people in your level range out-and-about in the world and then coming to rely on and uplift one another throughout the shared journey. Back then, there were no custom classes, QoL development was in its hypothetical stages, areas were few and familiar, and content was overall much harder. The natural development of comraderie I described was something a lot of people, even playing at the same time I'm describing, never really experienced. Maybe nostalgia taints my recollection, and I'm exaggerating the impact it had on the Arelith experience. All said, there are lots of reasons why we will probably never see those habits of play return ever again. And again, it's not something I think is necessarily bad. But it's something I think about.

Anyways, I think writs should pay out XP equivalent to the gold payout. Would make decisions about what writs to pick up a lot easier.

[AstralUniverse]

I actually dont remember a single time this topic was mentioned. I dont think this is about leveling speed or whether or not writ rewards are too high. think it's about the speed in relation to itself at different levels. It is true that the average time pre-epic has reduced drastically over the years, but the time pre-level 30 has reduced in general and I dont think it's about that.

What personally bugs me and apparently also puzzles the OP, if I can word it as following... is that I spend much more time pre-epic than at lvl 21-29, because the difficulty of the writs, their rewards, and the clear speed of the content dont really scale proportionately to make me level slower as I gain levels and the game doesnt become more or less difficult, but it certainly goes much faster for some reason.

[MissEvelyn]

I don't want to take away from the topic entirely, but I, too, wish content was more challenging. In fact, I would love to see monsters and hostile NPCs with some of the same player classes, spells, and abilities that we get to enjoy.

The content did feel much more difficult years ago. I know a big part of it is, us old-timers got better at the game. This is true; with enough repetition of doing something, you get better at it.
And, at the same time, PCs have been getting more and more custom and wildly powerful toys to play with, while monsters have largely remained the same.

[chris a gogo]

You spend less time in early epics because you start getting abilities that make it much safer or can destroy the PvE content for you, there is a reason every spell caster has PC even without any focuses it destroys 90% of content with ease.
Druids and Shaman make all PvE easy Shaman are the worse as you run around with 4-6 summons depending if you use undead or just PC.
Lets not bother mentioning the infini casters, which is playing nwn on easy mode.

Writs are generally balanced around players that are average ability and game knowledge I know that sounds crass but I'm fairly certain it's true, IIRC there were a lot of posts awhile back about how this or that writ was too difficult and they were adjusted to be easier npc mages stopped spamming dispels which to be fair was just really terrible to play against, monsters were made easier or spells/feats removed or made to be used less, which results in an easier time for those that know the game well.

This was a good thing for the server as it means you don't have to of played the game for the last fifteen years to be good at it, and minor mistakes are not instant death(most of the time).
But of course then you end up gaining levels faster because the more rewarding/dangerous writs aren't really all that dangerous and the rewards were increased, so if you know how to play the game and how to counter the mob spawns and the AI it's a cake walk.

Peace out.

[Amateur Hour]

I think most of this is unavoidable just because of when people get significant feats.

There's usually a pain point in most builds, but once you get your epic feats things get a lot smoother. This was curbed somewhat back when writs stopped at 20, but what happened back then was you had people circle-grinding writ spots, which made it hard for the people between levels 15-20 to complete their writs (and therefore level up). I remember trying for days to get Sibayad orcs writs done, and at least during my playtime, it was utterly impossible and eventually I just gave up and did courier writ after courier writ because grinders couldn't block me from doing those.

[hi chat]

I don't see the issue. There's options available for people to slow down their levelling if they wish to.

[tessimon]

It seems like several people assumed I was talking about the standard leveling speed discussion that gets brought up, my apologies for not doing a good job describing what I'm talking about. AstralUniverse did a good job of clarifying part of it. I'll try to clarify the rest.

I don't see the issue. There's options available for people to slow down their levelling if they wish to.

Let's say there are two writs, A and B. Without having completed them on a prior character, I cannot know how much XP they give and they can vary wildly. I cannot make an informed decision on how they will affect my leveling speed for the day. If it was listed somewhere in the writ text itself or the gold reward reflected it then I could know.

When a new writ is introduced to an established player, obfuscating the XP reward becomes a risky gamble and can discourage that player from selecting it versus their established rut. If instead, the XP is known and it's competitive to the better writs then it will likely be selected more often.