Some Observations from an Old Man Yelling at a Cloud

[Archmage Of Scowls]

So I'm back here, drifting around, been dipping my toe back for the last few days picking up a character I abandoned on a previous revisit despite loving the concept. I used to be (under different names) a regular with a big stake in some of the IC politics of the server several years ago and with I'd guess thousands of hours, but dropped off when life took a different turn and have never stuck the landing on coming back.

I don't know how long I'll be around this time, but it's fun to dabble and see what's new and what isn't. I'm massively out of the loop on a bunch of changes and innovations, and am naturally trying to process what everything feels like. What I love, what I like, what I've yet to learn, and what feels off.

So let me preface this by saying that there is a bunch that feels phenomenal about the way the server is, compared to back when I was a regular years and years ago - the new spells, classes, better integration of new stuff, icons, visuals, performance: phenomenal. And I've railed in the past against people criticising server design or decisions from a place of ignorance without respect for what people do - so I want to a) ask that if anyone responds, they're positive and respectful about the ridiculously good job the people who run this place do, and b) emphasize that what I'm trying to do here is write up some results of my own reflection of my recent time playing, having tried to remove the bits that are about me (some of my friends no longer play here, I don't know as much as I used to, I have less time to game for hours on end) and draw out the things which I catch myself wondering might, in the journey of innovation it's evident Arelith has been on recently, be the result of the frog in the boiling pot, not seeing some of the things without the starkness of years away.

• Levelling is so, so so fast. I'm hazy on the details, but my first Level 30 character took me I think upwards of 4-5 months to reach that level, and that was playing an unhealthy number of hours per day. That was extremely slow- in hindsight, almost certainly too slow - but it did mean that by the time I reached epic levels, my character felt an ingrained part of Arelith. I had stakes in a guild, friends, enemies, mentors, allies, people who I'd influenced and who had left a mark. Over my last few tries to jump back in, spanning the last couple of years, I've found myself in low epics without really any links to the server at all, let alone close friends or enemies. And mind you, I'm no circle-grinder or powergamer. The writs and adventure RP system layer on XP so fast that I've found myself accidentally gaining levels without even doing much - to me, it's stark, but when I process that and try to reflect on it, it feels too much. I am Lv20 and I feel socially like a newbie on the server. That's a really odd place to be

• Some of the map redesigns are gorgeous, the EE change has allowed the level designers to play with so many incredible new tilesets and assets. There are loads of beautiful, intricate, vast areas in Cordor, Myon, Guldorand, Mayfields/Tourney Ground... and they're all empty. The Tourney Ground near the tower even has an NPC joking in-character about how empty it is. I know the server is supposedly posting record numbers - probably even surpassing the days I think of as "my time", when it was three servers with a player cap that did get hit regularly, but I've yet to see more than a small handful of people in any one place (European time zone, so not the best for large populations but also not the worst). Back at least two evolutions of Cordor ago, you could wager your house that there'd be a bunch of people and four things happening and all manner of RP hooks to sink your teeth into just by popping down to Aristotlus Street outside the Nomad. There doesn't seem to be anywhere as active or bustling now - or if there is, it's well hidden. Might not be because of the spread of large safe spaces, but I suspect it probably is?

• The mystery and magic isn't there. I was never a DM, but I do remember that back when Jjjerm was the ringmaster, any time he called for new DMs he'd always preface things by saying that although being a DM was rewarding and let you do things you couldn't otherwise do, it also represented a look behind the curtain that couldn't be unlooked and that it would take away some of the magic of the server. That's how things feel these days. I remember when more or less everything that wasn't a bug, a rule, or a fundamental core system change was considered FOIG. Again, as with levelling - maybe this was too extreme in one direction; hard for me to say, because I remember knowing about the things I cared about and knowing who to ask (IC) about the things I didn't. But I do feel fun is detracted from by how far things are the other way now - runes are a good example, they were a bit after my heyday but I remember they were so interesting and exciting and shiny because of how strict the FOIG rule was about them, and how obscure it all was. Now the rules for it are printed on the wiki and you can read guides on the forums. Not to mention the Discord. Sure, you can just not look it up - but when the information is there, it's assumed to be known, so you're hamstringing yourself by not. Related to this, I think, is that nothing is rare - I once had an ideal of rolling up a character whose whole deal was to learn the intricacies of a particular esoteric in-game system, specialise towards being able to engage with it at the cost of other things, and becoming an asset in people wanting to benefit from this one system; that's not really a viable route now because you can find all the knowledge needed freely and all the resources in every player shop in every settlement. They're expensive, yes - but gold seems to be trivially easy to come by - but not rare.

• Everything seems to be about power now? Again, my memory is of a server which was almost religious about being a Roleplay First server, and the idea of having spaces on server official Discord servers or forums dedicated to staple builds, 1-30 spreadsheets, "must have" abilities etc. would have been unthinkable. This is linked to the point above - I have no doubt that back to the earliest days of the server these conversations did happen, but now that they're in the open, server-encouraged ways of thinking you a) don't get to be blissfully ignorant which is really what detracts from fun and b) trend the server as a whole towards that kind of play at the cost of diversity. You can't stop them happening but I am a little sad about the wholesale endorsement situation there seems to be now, I find myself thinking that most characters aren't really a composite of their experiences on the server because they probably have gear, skills, feats, and so on which were mapped out from Lv1 before they went anywhere or did anything - and that by virtue of sheer probability, they're at least low epic levels. Which ties a little bit into the earlier point about the server feeling like it kind of starts at Lv30 now.

I recognise that "once-ever-presents who slipped away for the better part of an IRL decade with only a few trips back and feel a little disheartened by some of the directions the server has taken" is absolutely not the target demographic of any changes made so maybe this is a me problem and this isn't intended as a list of things I demand changing or whatever - not least because I have no idea how to change some of them. And to be clear, I am loving some other changes - this is absolutely not a "look how they massacred my boy" post.

Just some things which it is helpful for me to put into writing and, I'd like to think were I in their shoes, helpful for those running the server to read as a reflection of someone who both knows what kind of things to look for but is also coming with if not a clean slate, then one with a heavy coating of dust over anything else.

Keep on doing what you're doing, because the fact that this place is thriving after however many years is an absolute triumph.

[The GrumpyCat]

This is a really interesting post, and brought up some points I'd not considered myself! Thank you very much!

[In Sorrow We Trust]

agreed on all points, honestly. though I think we're witnessing a culture shift, us who have been around since the bad old days, where foig dies on the tabernacle of "that's not convenient"-isms and "the server needs to be more transparent"-isms. it's largely become the norm to conceal nothing and make many things focus more on ooc knowledge. not a thing particularly enjoyable for roleplay, but it is well liked by players who seek to engage with mechanics without needing to actually play the game to understand them.

[Eyeliner]

You're not going to have a first love again or go to high school again or see Star Wars for the first time again and you're not going to be able to bring back the mystery and wonder of 2006 Arelith nearly two decades later either. I think a lot of the shifts are just what has to happen with a game and community that is this old. There's been a lot of new content added but think how much is the same, too, and many people have played hundreds of characters doing everything you can do on the server. A lot of the "mystery" was figuring out things and exploring places that well, have been figured out and explored now.

Also, so much tinkering has been done with the base game in the past 5 years that the devs pretty much have to be transparent (most of the time, at least) because it's not intuitive to figure new classes or things like missile templates or sequencers for summons on your own or even asking around IC. In 2006 you didn't need a wikipedia with mechanical changes because there barely were any. You did have the Neverwinter Nights manual or nwnwiki, though, so it wasn't like there was no resource for game mechanics.

I do miss a lot of things mentioned, but I also think "you can't go home again" and maybe making the best of what we have is better than dwelling on the past, which also may not have been quite as good as we remembered and is colored greatly by it being a new experience which simply isn't possible to recreate.

[Rei_Jin]

In the four years I've been playing on Arelith, a lot has changed.

Some of it for good.

Some of it for ill.

I firmly believe that increased transparency is a good thing, as it does not lock folk out of things based on longevity of playtime.

To use the rune example... yeah, runes used to be firmly FOIG.

But, once you learnt it on one character, all of your future characters knew it, it's not like you forgot when you made a new one. So, whilst it can be a fun thing to learn about for yourself for some, it serves as an artificial barrier to engagement for others.

Furthermore, there's been huge cultural upheavals outside of Arelith during this 4 year time, and those changes have impacted us all for good and for ill. We are all changed.

The world is a harsher, less kind place than it was, in many respects.

There are some areas and aspects where it is kinder and more welcoming.

This is the paradox of change; for all that we can gain, there are inescapable losses.

[AstralUniverse]

Everything seems to be about power now?

Always has been. You just had fewer characters who even reach lvl 30 back in JJ's days so the end-game builds mattered less and the people who did play powerbuilds at lvl 30 basically ruled the server. Now newer players have better chance at competing because information isnt gate-kept in closed groups of veterans.

[Amateur Hour]

I'm close approaching three years on the server, and while certainly it would seem the mechanics are taking center stage, the following is certainly true:

• There have always been powerbuild lists; the only thing that has changed is whether they're held entirely by specific groups or whether a brand new player without any OOC friends can find them.

• You don't know what you don't know. I very nearly quit the game after a month because I played an archer (a build straight out of the recommended builds list) who was nearly completely combat-non-functional because I didn't know about assembly templates, which aren't a thing in tabletop or in vanilla NWN. I had no reason to go around asking "hey, does anyone know of any way to make my arrows better?" because why would there be? Granted, templates are the worst example of these since at least new summoner classes get a sequencer at character creation (which prompts you to ask "hey, what's this?" if you don't know) and you can ask about runes if you find a runic item in a chest.

• Activity seems to cycle around different hubs over time. I've been parked in Myon (mostly on one character) since January 2021, and we'd go months where there's something happening every day and half a dozen people in the Hall at any time in American peak hours, then months where there's barely anyone around who isn't a government employee because all of those people before rolled or shelved their characters to try something different. Stick around in one regional community long enough and you'll see the waves.

• The mystery is gone the moment your character learns the mystery. I currently have a character who has no idea that Dis is a place you can travel to, but it doesn't feel like a mystery to me-the-player because I know it exists.

About the empty areas: for the purposes of contributing to the Feedback thread rather than arguing, there's certainly those of us who adore them. I am particularly fond of the Skalfell. If you do a Skalfell writ, it feels like its own adventure because the logistics of getting there is something you have to consider. And frankly, it also gives people space to do things that might be "questionably acceptable" without getting killed for it.

[The GrumpyCat]

Activity seems to cycle around different hubs over time. I've been parked in Myon (mostly on one character) since January 2021, and we'd go months where there's something happening every day and half a dozen people in the Hall at any time in American peak hours, then months where there's barely anyone around who isn't a government employee because all of those people before rolled or shelved their characters to try something different. Stick around in one regional community long enough and you'll see the waves.

This here is absolutly 100% true! And always has been! I... don't... know... if it invalidates teh OP's point or not? I mean I like - I really genuinly don't know. But I will say your point in general holds absolutly huge amount of validity. I've noticed through the years there will be points where say, Brog is the hub of all rp, then Bendir, then suddenly Guldorand, then Myon...

Cordor, as the starter city, tended to be a bit of a constant hub? And andunor too, by dint of design. But even those places tend to fluxuate a little dependent on sheer playtime (by which I mean, when you log in for the day.)

[Irongron]

It's always interesting for me to read feedback. I'll give some (brief) feedback.

Power focus/spreadsheets - back when I first played nearly 20 years ago players were obsessed with power, and a good 50% of the server played the same small handful of builds. As Astral said power focus has definitely always been with us, though I would add that we've become far more complex. As a player I don't check those spreadsheets, neither do I like them very much (because as I've said their sole focus in on level 30 PvP, and not enjoyment of the, you know, game, which happens in between) but I'm not going to fault the community for making them. Players should play hos they want to.

Levelling Speed: No secret that I find it way too fast, I mean, there is barely any chance to RP one's journey to superhero - it's over in the blink of an eye. Within a couple of weeks of play most characters have out levelled 90% of the world, then complain there isn't enough 'post 30 content'? I mean, there's hardly a shortage of content so at risk of stating the obvious; this wouldn't be a problem if levelling was simply slower.

Still, as the lead/owner I don't purely make decisions based on my own taste, and I absolutely understand that for veteran players levelling (by which i mean playing the actual, you know, game) is a chore they can do without. No plans to vastly reduce XP gain.

So for my own favourite area to discuss...

Dead/depopulated areas:

I have to say even as a European player I don't find this, or at least as the designer of these almost all those areas I've designed to be hubs work as such. Let's go one bu one.

Cordor Nomad/main street - almost always someone here.

Bendir Inn/Main street: I think there are some players really making an effort here. Generally people there, but mostly the same people.

Sencliff Docks - surprisingly active for such an edge case location. I played here for several weeks earlier in the year and had no trouble finding RP.

Guld Main Square - I designed Guldorand for well over 2 years with a plan to introduce when we passed over 400 players at peak, I eventually decided to go ahead and add it when I no longer found that realistic. A slow start, but the hub I designed for it is definitely active. Almost always RP there.

Soulhaven - this too was designed as a hub, but is sadly almost entirely empty. Perhaps little surprise given how unpopular Monk is.

Arcane Tower/Mayfields - this too is generally dead, more a place that players choose to pass through than stay and visit.

Brog (New) Street & Golden Halls - this one always seems busy, though could be because it is new.

And what I consider the most successful two...

Skaljard Village - No problems here.

Andunor Hub - lives up to its name.

So they're the core group RP locations, the rest are either district/sub city locations designed to be active only when populated by an active faction, or sprawling wilderness/exploration areas which I'd actually prefer to be mostly empty as Arelith would feel a lot smaller if one couldn't head into the wilds without tripping over other adventurers.

And, well, I would still like to have the space if we start hitting 400 at peak.

[AstralUniverse]

...their sole focus in on level 30 PvP, and not enjoyment of the, you know, game, which happens in between

I appreciate you taking the time to answer and share your insight with us and I would like to address this little point about builds.

First of all, I dont think that's true that they are all pvp focused. Some of them are more PVP focused, some less. All of them need to have some resemblance of PVP viability, because... you know.. pvp is also in character event in the game that a character should treat as danger no less than monsters who arent played by players. From IC perspective, combat is combat. The character doesnt know their dispel resistance barely matters in pve for example. We treat PVP as something that can and will happen to anyone sometimes and many of us dont really appreciate the culture of dismissing the existence of pvp, because it makes conflict resolution through pvp meaningless. So we (the builders who post builds) think the builds need to take PVP into account at least to a degree, and they are certainly not all entirely pvp focused. I mean... I see so many builds not Weapon Master, Paladin or Spellsword there.

Secondly, as you also just said, leveling speed is fast. The in between period of slow character progression where leveling is fluidly expressed in RP is a ship that sailed when you first introduced writs. Not saying if it's good or bad. In the past, I've been told by other players that I should mind my own business and level in whatever slow speed I want, so I'm long gone off that tree, but at the same time, this leveling speed means the character sheet before level 30 matters that much less and when you get to 30, this is what you're left to play with, for the remainder of the character's lifespan.

In early Arelith days far far fewer people planned their build to level 30 because the commitment to a character that it took to get to lvl 30 was no guarantee to the average player and following a lvl 30 spreadsheet as a guide was a risk. Now it really isnt, even if you're a brand new player with 0 clue what you're doing you follow a build and you likely get to lvl 30 as well not long after the rest, which again, isnt necessarily a bad thing but it comes with consequences. The game is faster to it's peak.

[Skibbles]

These observations are pretty clear to many of us, so I will contend over only one:

The mystery and magic is still present - it's just not buried (well, aside that one scry FOIG thing that still perpetuates beyond all reason) in the mechanics.

The game world is absolutely gigantic and full of all sorts of unique locations and unwritten (and sometimes written) lore. You can spend a full year in one of many player libraries pouring over history or magic treatises or seeking out storied artifacts.

My advice: pack your bags, pick a direction, and just go. Then do it again in the underdark. There's so much to explore beyond writs and popular adamantine deposits.

Many tucked away locations are super juicy for return trips and roleplay with others.

[Eira]

The game world is absolutely gigantic and full of all sorts of unique locations and unwritten (and sometimes written) lore. You can spend a full year in one of many player libraries pouring over history or magic treatises or seeking out storied artifacts.

I cannot stress enough how true this is. I recently realized that people largely don't even talk to NPCs. This is a vast mistake. There is so much in the world you can learn!

[AstralUniverse]

Talking to NPCs is just a small treat I get from the game here and there when new areas are added. We got some excellent writers and these NPCs dialogue are very good and sometimes hilarious. For me it is certainly a great incentive to go explore new places. And there are still places I havent seen, saying this as a player from 2006, I think it says a lot about how vast the world is and how much there is to see.

[The GrumpyCat]

Possibly nitpicky but...

Secondly, as you also just said, leveling speed is fast. The in between period of slow character progression where leveling is fluidly expressed in RP is a ship that sailed when you first introduced writs

Whilst I think there's truth in this, respectfully I found that for me, leveling speed went off the rails when the adventure pool xp increased to 120 per tick. Before that the speed of your leveling was very much balenced by how many writs you did. Now even if you go out of your way to do relitivly few, you find yourself leveling super fast in the first few levels, at any rate.

This is my experience anyway.

[AstralUniverse]

Possibly nitpicky but...

Secondly, as you also just said, leveling speed is fast. The in between period of slow character progression where leveling is fluidly expressed in RP is a ship that sailed when you first introduced writs

Whilst I think there's truth in this, respectfully I found that for me, leveling speed went off the rails when the adventure pool xp increased to 120 per tick. Before that the speed of your leveling was very much balenced by how many writs you did. Now even if you go out of your way to do relitivly few, you find yourself leveling super fast in the first few levels, at any rate.

This is my experience anyway.

Oh it is most certainly faster now that it was when writs were introduced. When writs were introduced it was the major turning point the server took towards way faster leveling, it just didnt stop there. Exp rewards were boosted, explore exp rewards were boosted, then RPR ticks were boosted because we had 200k exp in the pool we had nothing to do with. It's more of a chain of a events than a singular event.

[Archmage Of Scowls]

I had intended this to be a one-and-done post because I doubt discussion will be as constructive as much as simply philosophical - and so not aiming to rebut or respond to anything raised.

But I do want to add an addendum based on some more thoughts/experiences around this. Within the last few days, I've seen across Discord and the Forums, the following comments (paraphrased):

• "just relevel your build, you can ask DMs for a class/stat change"

• "you can get to Lv12 within a day or two"

• "lots of builds are tedious and unfun to play until high epics"

• "you definitely can't skip [SKILL] on a build"

I hope it goes without saying, no intent to callout or shame people for this - it's clearly customary and normal, and nobody is doing anything bad or wrong in saying it. But I couldn't help but feel it all adds to my thoughts - the triviality of getting to mid levels and the fact that people go into the game intending to play classes that only begin to "work" at Lv25+, are evidently symptoms of the fact that levelling is so fast. In the Old Times(tm), I'm sure people still felt and talked like this but it was a minority view with less impact on mentality and on the server - because everyone recognised that if you needed to be Lv25 before a build was viable, it was probably not going to be a good time. The idea of throwing away the effort of getting to level twelve to tweak an early build decision would have been unthinkable. That might sound like "oh great, they made the user experience better!" but I don't think that's how it actually is.

The triviality of early levels is seemingly thrown around casually now, I think because levelling is so fast and therefore you can churn out an optimised build. It's a funnel to hyper-optimised, mechanics-based thinking, as far as I see it. As I say, I'm jarred by some server decisions in this regard - having "build advice" areas on the forums and Discord, having a library of cookie-cutter builds, having a policy of DMs agreeing to change your base class or stats at low levels (outside of when mechanical changes substantially change a build - of course then it should be allowed) - imo it all feeds towards this same culture of the mechanics of builds mattering more than the roleplay choices. As I think I touched on in my post, you won't stop a minority of people optimising the game and sharing it in limited circles - some people are convinced you can "win" collaborative games - and indeed I think most people have a progression path with ideas of where their build might go (hell, a lot of PrCs necessitate it). But culturally, the jump from that to "yes, this is something you are encouraged to prioritise - here are all these server official resources and mechanisms devoted to it" is larger than perhaps is obvious. I don't know where the right line is - I saw someone else asking today "does a [Class] really need [Feat]" and the discussion was in the vein of "it's useful not but essential" or "you'll miss it in [X] context", that kind of thing - that feels like reasonable guidance and support - but it's a long way short of "here's a library of template builds, pick one and load up, irrespective of what your character does or is".

I gained more or less 80% of an epic level yesterday without fighting more than two or three pods of correctly levelled enemies - either resource-gathering in areas where I get 0-2xp per kill, RPing without combat, or doing quarter/crafting stuff. Almost a whole level, largely from RPR/Adventure RP - it's hard for me to even begin to sculpt any RP or credibility around progression with that? If you can hit epic in a fortnight by circle grinding high power dungeons with very skilled play and a powerful character then sure, maybe the RP value of your time on the server isn't the greatest but hell, at least you're doing something to warrant it - but the idea that I don't need to actually seek adventure, I'll hit Lv30 in a satisfying (or honestly faster-than-satisfying) amount of time just by logging in and vibing is not great, imo. When my first character hit Lv30, way back when, it felt like a really momentous achievement I could be proud of and which reflected the journey they had been on. Now, I'll get my current character to Lv30 in a fraction of the time - but all I can feel is that I'm behind the curve until I do. The "Lv12 in a day" thing really, really stuck with me - after all, starting at Level 14 is available as a Medium Reward, which I think philosophically tells you where the intent is in terms of how significant an achievement that is. But you can do it in a free weekend.

I really think levelling pace (and probably gold/equipment too, but leaving that aside) is an example of a kid wanting ice cream for dinner. Sure, we feel like we want it and we'll say we do - but in reality it's not as satisfying as it sounds and isn't all that good for us in the long run.

I will try to end my comments there - I wanted to leave useful feedback for the server management, rather than debate the point, but this felt like a relevant addition to me. I don't intend this to become an endless pit of curmudgeonly grumbling.

[Irongron]

I don't intend this to become an endless pit of curmudgeonly grumbling.

I've always tried to give thoughtful, considered responses on these forums. To be mature, and take account the other persons point of view as part of a constructive discourse with the community of players.

Alas the above quote is so perfectly worded & fitting to this place that if any of our web dev team are reading this, you have my full permission to use 'An Endlesss Pit of Curmudgeonly Grumbling' as the Arelith Forums Feedback Section's official subheading.

[AstralUniverse]

'An Endlesss Pit of Curmudgeonly Grumbling' as the Arelith Forums Feedback Section's official subheading.

Yeah we're just sitting tight for the next Monk rework. I got an apocalyptic supply of salt saved up for the next occasion.

[Eyeliner]

When I first played in the supposedly good old days I was in college without a lot of free time and was never able to get a character to epics, much less 30. My experience was mostly feeling like I was a spectator watching players who had the time to grind to epics run the show. I don’t remember any particular fun to be had at being level 14 that I couldn’t have at level 30, by that I mean I could do RP that didn’t depend on level like talent shows or moots or whatever but… you can do that at 30 too. But if you’re low level it was (and still is) just a lot of being left behind because you can’t handle where everyone else in the town or faction is going. Or you join a DM event and you’re the first casualty because it’s epic level combat even in PVE.

Now I have even less time, with a full time job and other people in my life who need attention, but I still like to play 10-15 hours a week. I like that with even less time to play I can actually get a character to epics and have a full set of abilities and be a part of something so when I am in game it’s not either grinding to get somewhere or watching the world go by because I’m not high enough level. This is just my own experience and opinion but I personally don’t see the appeal of staying low level for a longer amount of time, because (unless you stay on Skal- more about that below) there’s no incentive here to do so. There’s nothing a level 14 can do that an epic character can’t, but there are a lot of doors closed to you and you’re treated as a second class citizen so.. why linger if you don’t particularly enjoy that? I mean you can’t even use character-defining abilities like disguise and stealth since you’re mixing it up with epic characters who can easily shut you down.

If slow leveling was to ever return I think making the low levels more appealing needs to be a consideration.
But if leveling is slowed down considerably (and it has been in the last year, writs were greatly reduced) I’ll probably also just call it quits, because it won’t be a place that supports the 10-15 hour a week player any more. At the very least I’ll just play the same character forever and never try another concept.

Anyway, if you want slow leveling there are so many ways to do it. If you enjoy low level play, Skal is great. You can actually associate with others at your level, there’s no having to take a permanent backseat to epics and DMs even run lower level events there. If another big area is ever added to the game I’d love a second Skal-type option that allowed low and mid levels only.

[Amateur Hour]

When I first played in the supposedly good old days I was in college without a lot of free time and was never able to get a character to epics, much less 30. My experience was mostly feeling like I was a spectator watching players who had the time to grind to epics run the show. I don’t remember any particular fun to be had at being level 14 that I couldn’t have at level 30, by that I mean I could do RP that didn’t depend on level like talent shows or moots or whatever but… you can do that at 30 too. But if you’re low level it was (and still is) just a lot of being left behind because you can’t handle where everyone else in the town or faction is going. Or you join a DM event and you’re the first casualty because it’s epic level combat even in PVE.

I think this is a really good point.

Let us, for the sake of argument here, say that we are trying to play for maximum roleplay without any consideration for anything else; your level is irrelevant, even with mentorship roleplay. A level 30 can social RP as well as a level 2. I feel like a lot of people think that slowing leveling would mean that there would suddenly be more inclusive behavior to lower level characters, and there's absolutely no reason to believe that would be the case. You'd just be excluded for longer.

If the story you want to tell with your Arelith character is "this is the tale of how Joe Adventurer became badass", then okay, I can understand how fast leveling speed could affect that, but I feel like you're really limiting yourself if what you see as plot progress is measured by your level and ability to push out Big Numbers. "This is the tale of how Joe Adventurer learned the meaning of friendship" can be at any level. "This is the tale of how Joe Adventurer learned the road to hell is paved with good intentions" can be at any level. A facet that I think often gets overlooked: you can be an NPC in other people's stories at any level, arguably moreso at higher levels because you have greater flexibility. You never lose the opportunity to learn and grow as a person.

EDIT: I forgot to add the obligatory additions about leveling speed. You have two options if you want to reduce your leveling speed: taking the freelancer writ or simply never taking writs at all (you are never required to sacrifice that 2x2 space in your inventory). I do freelancer writs and will never go back.

[Inordinate]

Any time the discussion of leveling speed comes up, I am reminded of my response to the thread on toggling off writ experience gains. I apply it towards people complaining about how quick it is to level up these days. Slowing down leveling for everyone else will only make people either resentful or just grind harder like the pre-writ days (which a lot of people did, you just didn't hear about it and we're so far removed from even beyond that most people don't really remember it that well).

If you don't like the speed of leveling then don't do the things that make you level up fast.

[Marsi]

I had intended this to be a one-and-done post because I doubt discussion will be as constructive as much as simply philosophical - and so not aiming to rebut or respond to anything raised.

But I do want to add an addendum based on some more thoughts/experiences around this. Within the last few days, I've seen across Discord and the Forums, the following comments (paraphrased):

• "just relevel your build, you can ask DMs for a class/stat change"

• "you can get to Lv12 within a day or two"

• "lots of builds are tedious and unfun to play until high epics"

• "you definitely can't skip [SKILL] on a build"

I hope it goes without saying, no intent to callout or shame people for this - it's clearly customary and normal, and nobody is doing anything bad or wrong in saying it. But I couldn't help but feel it all adds to my thoughts - the triviality of getting to mid levels and the fact that people go into the game intending to play classes that only begin to "work" at Lv25+, are evidently symptoms of the fact that levelling is so fast. In the Old Times(tm), I'm sure people still felt and talked like this but it was a minority view with less impact on mentality and on the server - because everyone recognised that if you needed to be Lv25 before a build was viable, it was probably not going to be a good time. The idea of throwing away the effort of getting to level twelve to tweak an early build decision would have been unthinkable. That might sound like "oh great, they made the user experience better!" but I don't think that's how it actually is.

The triviality of early levels is seemingly thrown around casually now, I think because levelling is so fast and therefore you can churn out an optimised build. It's a funnel to hyper-optimised, mechanics-based thinking, as far as I see it. As I say, I'm jarred by some server decisions in this regard - having "build advice" areas on the forums and Discord, having a library of cookie-cutter builds, having a policy of DMs agreeing to change your base class or stats at low levels (outside of when mechanical changes substantially change a build - of course then it should be allowed) - imo it all feeds towards this same culture of the mechanics of builds mattering more than the roleplay choices. As I think I touched on in my post, you won't stop a minority of people optimising the game and sharing it in limited circles - some people are convinced you can "win" collaborative games - and indeed I think most people have a progression path with ideas of where their build might go (hell, a lot of PrCs necessitate it). But culturally, the jump from that to "yes, this is something you are encouraged to prioritise - here are all these server official resources and mechanisms devoted to it" is larger than perhaps is obvious. I don't know where the right line is - I saw someone else asking today "does a [Class] really need [Feat]" and the discussion was in the vein of "it's useful not but essential" or "you'll miss it in [X] context", that kind of thing - that feels like reasonable guidance and support - but it's a long way short of "here's a library of template builds, pick one and load up, irrespective of what your character does or is".

The "grindset" culture was not caused by high XP rates.

A small coterie of plugged in players developed a more quantified approach to PvP, XP gain, mechanics etc sometime in the mid-2010s. Until that point Arelith mechanics culture was clouded in received wisdom, old wives tales and literal misinformation. Of course this was coemergent with improved social media that allowed for more persistent culture-creation away from the forums and a general trend in gaming towards quantification, data collection, esports, "the meta", speed-running, etc.

These players were influential and this culture became the mainstream. It often felt (and still does) like a cargo cult as newer players tried to clumsily embody this "git gud" attitude lacking the understanding of the mechanics or the experience of high-stakes PvP. You used to get flagged if you posted too many dodgy builds, it was all quite serious.

It's important to note how oppressive and banal "RP purist" culture was. Does anyone remember how bad "character sheet snitching" was? It was time for a cultural shift. There were actually systems in place to hamper XP rate. Features like adventure XP and writs were a welcome change. Arelith has been tinkered with a LOT in the past couple of years since "pro-XP" features were introduced, they were not intrinsically damaging to the rate of levelling or the fabric of roleplaying culture. On the contrary, the most "D&D"-esque fun I've ever had was when writs were repeatable. And having an XP UBI meant you no longer had to be such a tryhard about optimising XP gain all the time.

I do know how you feel. Whenever I check the official discord, I don't recognise the server these people are talking about. I've noticed an attitude of "I can't afford to FOIG, I need to get ahead". With a far larger active playerbase than in my day it must feel more difficult to stand out and be noticed as a new player, that the only way to make it on the server is to outcompete mechanically. I've come across newer players more cynical about Arelith than I've ever been, because they've come up in a time that's allowed them to totally misapprehend Arelith as this "RP starts at 30" skinner box. Sometimes I don't think it's so bad, sometimes my attempts to organise an adventure or any "off script" roleplay gets hit with the dreaded "what writ is that?" tell.

[Shadowy Reality]

To this day nothing annoys me more than coming across someone in the wilds and they asking: "Are you here for the writ?"

Why does this matter, I don't get it. People feel like they have to vacate the premises for people doing writs or something like that. People only go places if there's writs or Runic components involved.

And then you are kinda beholden to run everywhere, barely anyone is willing to walk and Roleplay these days, to the point where I have become an expert at running and typing, or typing during loading screens (yes you can do that).

I miss the days where an outing was just an adventure, with no bigger motive other than to get Roleplay going with some action in between. Nothing like slowly making my way through the Aurilite caves while a certain cleric of of the Nine Hells tried to convert us all with talks about Deities and the Pact Primeval.

And leveling is most definitely too fast, or at the very least we have too many writs per day. I would rather have 1 writ per day give me the experience of 2 writs, than having to do 3 writs per day to keep up.

[definatelynothealbold]

The reason people ask "Are you here for doing the writ" is because they are probably either:

A) Looking to do the Writ themselves and looking to group up with people that are.
B) Not doing the writ, but probably grinding exp or looting treasures, but also do not want to force people trying to do the writ to wait for them, or harm their exp gain by being around.
C) They are high level characters and are going to leave the area to not monopolize the area from characters that are normal for the area, as per they should per server "Be nice" rules.

Honestly, the writ system effectively connects players into having like-minded tasks. Maybe your just passing through, if someone asks that, just say no, no harm done.

Plenty of people Walk and Talk during RP. I do it pretty often depending on how other people are playing. Some people like to take it slow, some people like to do things quickly. I don't think either way of doing things is wrong.

[Amateur Hour]

To this day nothing annoys me more than coming across someone in the wilds and they asking: "Are you here for the writ?"

Why does this matter, I don't get it. People feel like they have to vacate the premises for people doing writs or something like that.

This part, specifically, is actually completely reasonable to me.

A writ - not in the context of a game where it's a stand-in term for 'quest' - is a legal document giving people the authority to act. Most people should get out of the way of the group of people who have legal documents saying "be here and do this thing." Even chaotics should at least be aware of the fact that going up against people who have been hired by an entity to do a thing could have consequences.

Now, to be pedantic, we should probably be saying "Do you have a writ?" or "Did the agency issue a writ to you?" not "are you here for the writ?"

One of the really good things about the writ system - particularly combat writs not repeating! - is that it helps spread people out so they aren't all trying to grind the same optimized locations. I don't remember a pre-writ era, but I do remember when writs were repeatable, and I remember that everyone would try to do the exact same ones every day and circle-grind those areas when they were done. There are so many writs I never did until writs stopped repeating, and now that they don't, I'm honestly having way more fun with doing writs because each one is its own adventure, my characters have a chance for a unique experience in each, and it's not going to become as repetitive as before.