Plot Fatigue - What is too many?

[Kythana]

1) Dms cannot always controle the size of events, or how people react to them. Someone can spawn a few rats on the Cordor streets for some lowbe characters to murder, and it can turn into "OMG MASSIVE RAT INVASION THE KING OF RATS HAS RETURNED ALL OF CORDOR WILL BE DEVOURED! SUMMON THE ARCANE TOWER! SUMMON THE RADIANT HEART! THE ISLE IS DUE TO BE DOOOOOMED! DOOOOOOOOMED I TELL YE!'
This works over time as well as numbers. I can say, run an event where pcs help a poor begger with some coin and he talks about the suffering of the slums- wanting just to add a few bits of flavour at atmosphere, and then get innundated with 10 requests of 'WE WANT TO HELP THE POOR!' 'WE'RE ORGANIZING A MEGA GROUP TO MURDER ALL THE GANGS!' 'WE'VE COLLECTED 1000000 UNITS OF STONE TO MAKE AN AMAZING MANSION FOR THEM!' Ect. It's really cool in many ways, I admire it, but following up such threads can turn what was once a tiny flavour quest into a huge mega story, the like of which isn't neccesarly wanted.

DMs absolutely can and have controlled the size of events.

Almost every time that I've seen an event balloon out of proportion is because:

1) Massive swarms of enemies come in with extremely bloated stats. Characters don't want to die, so they call in reinforcements.

An anecdote I'll share. One time, I was roleplaying in the Myon library with one other character, when suddenly evil books came to life. They instantly started hitting me for around 70 damage per hit with 44-45 AB, and were spamming Mordenkainen's Disjunction in the back.

I actually died, because my death ward got dispelled, and a 60 DC Wail of the Banshee killed me. If it wasn't for the fact that the person I was rping with at the time sent a wisp, we would have just both died, and the event would be over.

If whatever is happening can be solved by throwing more bodies at it(IE, tough, numerous enemies), it's going to happen.

When the threat is something manageable by the players already there, generally speaking, everyone is accommodating enough to not introduce more. After all, many players are searching for the spotlight themselves, why muddle the chance of that not happening by introducing more characters?

2) DM NPCs hype up the importance of the event.

Again, another anecdote. When the Tower election came around, my evil, non-magically inclined character was planning on sitting it out. I had no reason to go, or attend, and didn't really care.

And then, I saw a board post by a DM NPC saying that actually, this was the most important decision ever, because it could have wide reaching implications on every magical community across the isle. (This wasn't even true in the end.)

Had this event just focused on the Tower itself, and did not encourage outsiders to come in? I wouldn't have bothered to come.

When the DM event is just... a few people talking in a room, there is 0 reason to call in others. Sure, some people might still be summoned in. Some might naturally filter in. But it's a lot more manageable than when the entire combined military force is brought in when an army is spawned.

That can be controlled.

[Crookedblossom]

Don't react negatively ICly to characters not being there. Don't make anonymous posts about characters who aren't there and "ignored the problem." Don't do this ICly in ongoing roleplay. I don't care if "that's what my character would do" you can still understand that you are working in a system of limitations and being attacked for stepping aside for IC or OOC reasons is a really poor roleplaying hook.

I'd like to point out this one in particular.

I would highly encourage my fellow players to report instances of this happening to the DMs, and I would likewise encourage the DMs to be on the lookout for instances like this. When it comes to plots that have a run time of weeks to a month long or so, we as players cannot be expected to attend every iteration of the DM event/battle/investigation/etc. If characters who are attempting to delegate tasks in order to make up for the fact that they can't be on consistently to interact with the plot are then responded to with, "Well, I noticed you weren't here/didn't care/etc" then that is not only a poor roleplay hook, I think it is strongly toeing the Be Nice rule.

DM event participation is not mandatory to begin with, and players should understand this.

I see this sort of behavior happen sometimes and when it does, the player it is impacting is almost always dissuaded from further participation or otherwise feel dejected that they cannot participate in hours-long vigils or battles.

There is a difference between ICly disregarding the situation and being flippant, versus time zones simply not aligning.

I would like to see this behavior curtailed more, as I think it does a lot of damage to player morale. It's less a fear of missing out, and more of a kind of peer pressure that devoting hours of time to a temporary story will mean that people will behave negatively toward your character for completely OOC reasons.

[Kuma]

Don't react negatively ICly to characters not being there. Don't make anonymous posts about characters who aren't there and "ignored the problem." Don't do this ICly in ongoing roleplay. I don't care if "that's what my character would do" you can still understand that you are working in a system of limitations and being attacked for stepping aside for IC or OOC reasons is a really poor roleplaying hook.

Fully agreed.

The fatigue crept in quite heavily after the Weatherstone and then the Plague plot made my usual roleplaying 'spot' completely uninhabitable for weeks at a time. It played a very heavy part in why I dropped Drext.

Much of the smaller scale, politicking and inter-personal roleplay with the DMNPCs was very good. I was impressed at the technical abilities we've accumulated over the years and what we can do to the module without having to actually change the areas.

I was, however, bored to tears at waking up one day to find my house was underwater, again, and having to find new and novel ways to emote at it fruitlessly.

A moratorium on apocalyptic island-wide 'plot' events for a year or two would genuinely be appreciated, with exceptions made not at an individual DM's discretion but a dev-level one.

[Dancing]

My main gripe with large events is how they pull away from non-related player driven story and simple role-play due to lag.

Nothing gets players to start acting oddly more than knowing a DM plot is afoot. This includes abruptly leaving the rp they are currently engaged into b-line it to the event and dropping stories they are engaged in to prioritize DM events. It feels terribly inorganic to me.

This might be an oversimplification but, lag during events disallows anyone not involved in the event from enjoying the server. In my simple mind anything that disrupts the basic function of the servers should not be allowed.

[Ruzuke]

I would say the people speaking on too many plots may be the main characters involved in them.

At the very best in my entire time playing I have only been a plus one. I never even been part of the core group. If I showed up or did not it was not important. I would recommend people who have plot fatigue or feel that DM plots are taking away from their own personal stories let other player's shine.

Other players have the exact same stats in lores others are willing to do the search. I play support characters, but even support should get the spotlight sometimes.

[-XXX-]

I must say that I really REALLY liked the Lord's War storyline.
Why? Because it:

• temporarily altered the setting: influenced RP even when DMs weren't doing anything

• strengthened player agency: characters could pick sides or even ignore it altogether

• introduced conflict other than good vs. evil

• introduced political intrigue other than "who's gonna evict people after next elections"

• contained many events that were able to spark exciting RP even with minimal player involvement

• wasn't a world ending supernatural event

Now, what made it different here was it being a conflict between two major NPC factions, neither of which blatantly good or evil.
This put player characters into the role of bystanders with a lot of interesting choices.

Something like a zombie apocalypse already pits player characters against NPCs and therefore tends to play out merely as a gratuitous PvE encounter.

I guess the question here is what appeals more to the player base: Game of Thrones shenanigans or the reenactment of Avengers:Endgame.
And while a lot of political intrigue and backroom dealings can be successfully executed even without DM involvement, player agency in this regard can feel rather limited and expectations ought to be tempered, whereas an ongoing NPC conflict can go a long way in setting the tone and stakes for players to work with further.

[Aeryeris]

I must say that I really REALLY liked the Lord's War storyline.
Why? Because it:

• temporarily altered the setting: influenced RP even when DMs weren't doing anything

• strengthened player agency: characters could pick sides or even ignore it altogether

• introduced conflict other than good vs. evil

• introduced political intrigue other than "who's gonna evict people after next elections"

• contained many events that were able to spark exciting RP even with minimal player involvement

• wasn't a world ending supernatural event

Now, what made it different here was it being a conflict between two major NPC factions, neither of which blatantly good or evil.
This put player characters into the role of bystanders with a lot of interesting choices.

Something like a zombie apocalypse already pits player characters against NPCs and therefore tends to play out merely as a gratuitous PvE encounter.

I guess the question here is what appeals more to the player base: Game of Thrones shenanigans or the reenactment of Avengers:Endgame.
And while a lot of political intrigue and backroom dealings can be successfully executed even without DM involvement, player agency in this regard can feel rather limited and expectations ought to be tempered, whereas an ongoing NPC conflict can go a long way in setting the tone and stakes for players to work with further.

Definitely agree.

The Lords War felt very opt in, where people could involve themselves if they wanted to

It also had its events quite spread out and much more out of the way.

It was awesome for these and many other reasons.

[Wethrinea]

For my own selfish reasons, limited play time chiefly, I too prefer the smaller DM plots that are limited in time, scope and player-count. Two of my absolute favourites that i remember to this day is the Speaker of Fortunes and a trading trip from Dunmarle to Calimshan.

What made the Speaker so great was the infamy that preceded that mysterious NPC. My character was absolutely terrified of and loathed the entity, but had no other choice but to bargain with it. One of the many to do so, I believe, and not at all one of the more important in the overall plot. But it had a huge impact on the future trajectory of that character.

The DM-run trip to Calimshan was great for a different reason. A party of low to mid level Skal characters hired to protect a trade mission. Nothing extraordinary happened, but we got to fend off a pirate attack. What made it great was the attention given to individual characters in the form of skill checks when we did stuff. Like my swashbuckler barely passing a tumble check when climbing the boom in rolling waves, with the implied consequence of falling over-board had he failed. It both won him some grudging admiration from a fellow sailor, and put the fear of Umberlee into him. Great stuff!

TLDR: I enjoy those events where every characters gets something. It can be as little as a skill check, a sentence of attention from a more or less important NPC, a line about being watched from the tree, in essence that you are seen.

[D4wN]

I would say the people speaking on too many plots may be the main characters involved in them.

At the very best in my entire time playing I have only been a plus one. I never even been part of the core group. If I showed up or did not it was not important. I would recommend people who have plot fatigue or feel that DM plots are taking away from their own personal stories let other player's shine.

Other players have the exact same stats in lores others are willing to do the search. I play support characters, but even support should get the spotlight sometimes.

This isn't the case at all. I'm rarely involved in DM plots myself for example. I think I've been involved in the core group of a DM plot probably 3-4 times in 9 RL years playing. I'm usually (except for the Ssaerth plot which also seems to have faded) on the outside receiving updates from players who are involved and maybe give some counselling/advise. Plot fatigue with these huge server wide plots is more about the constant interruption of player events or plots, the fear of hosting events for it being a waste of effort or people trying to drag you in. Be it through these updates or sending messengers to you and everyone around you. Also often the impact on players around you who are involved. If you have a big heroic knight or paladin who stands against evil and darkness, you're not going to just shrug and walk away when a hoard of Undead is coming to try and kill everyone around you. So you face the lag and do your part, even if it's only little.

Personally I think support characters should be the ones in the lime light. They are experts in something, have expertise in something they put their niche in. There are too many 'I'm an expert in everything' people in my opinion and it would be nice if people didn't always rush to solve things, but rather do a call out for experts to help them with particular things instead of trying to solve everything themselves.

I personally also believe that these major server-wide plotlines drown out low level characters. When you have NPCs that are easily killing fully geared epic characters, what chance does a lowbee stand to get involved? None. I would 100% prefer there to be more RP focused plots and smaller plots where everyone (lowbee, support, mundane, commoner) has a chance to shine.

[Rootin and tootin]

I think a lot of things are hard to predict and there is a lot of immediate personal perception which conflicts with public perception when it comes to events, and that can kind of aggravate things.
Eppi has had Some part of three different cataclysms in the last year and there is a lot I struggle with when it comes to the FOIG aspects and like, the way people react OOC and IC and the fatigue becomes very real.
I'm not gonna shrug off how I play Eppi or how she reacts to things. I press the Shiny Red Button. But its hard to tell the scope of the action or interaction until it plays out. A lot of times I think it's just people reacting to the environment as its being presented that causes the snowball.

Like, When Eppi went to the Weatherstone I thought it was for a smaller-scale, intimate, Monk/Soulhaven questlet and then I was Very Wrong

I also think A lot of events have more context and backstory and are more player driven than they may seem to someone learning about them who isn't like, involved in every step. Who interrupts their day and why, may just be less apparent or felt than the mechanical aspects.

Even "smaller" events or plotlines can be jarring if you just planned on doing other things. I had one weekend where Eppi was in a planned, telegraphed Event in Skal, kind of a climax to the arch that lasted like 5 hours. and then Jed had two, chill, Slice of life style events I had been looking forward to the next day, a language lesson and memorial service. They both ended up becoming DM events
that were engaging and fun and good and all, and ultimately know they were important for story and setting, But I still like, just wasn't mentally prepared anymore after spending it all the night before and was looking forward to the chill player stuff.

[ltlukoziuz]

I can give my two cents from a bit another perspective - someone leading a faction (Cordor's Navy) that's unrelated to the events that have recently been going on (did try to get myself in a bit but I quickly realized I couldn't split my attention between my own player driven themes, faction leading/organizing and handling sails, and then also the DM events). The Navy (at least for the moment, do have the people to push the other side of globe more) is more of EU centric faction, and due to how sailing a big flagship works (needing at least 6 people but preferably a chunk more), work around regular events - mustering up, any pre-sail prep, handing out roles for the day, setting out goal, and handling it, with or without improvisation depending if we encounter something 'unusual'.

Due to how long it all takes, easily eating up 2-4 hours to do a round trip, there's a very limited time window where you can grab as many people as you can and hope to retain them - the rough primetime being that of 7PM-midnight local, spanning three-four timezones depending on time of year and just where exactly players come from (not to mention the odd american or two who can spend their mornings/lunches). So to take it round in middle, for CEST, that would be 8pm-midnight that we run, trying my best to make the last hour less intense so that people can run early if need be and we just skeleton man it for last leg, enough to get us back to dock.

The last big plot that happened recently (Undead in Minmir), while it wasn't really Cordor's problem, still influenced it heavily - both from involving the Guard to assist, as well as many Cordorians still having ties to Myon/Grove/Bendir/Radiant Heart/whatnot - they're still very much involved in caring for place. And given the nature of its plot, it was mostly an "ingame nighttime" plot, least the big battle events of it. Now let's do a quick check, what's CEST 8pm-midnight in-game? 20:15-08:15 - i.e. fully night time.

You can probably add up two and two what's been happening lately more often than not. Get about, set off, handle anything that's needed before sail, maybe even shoot up a ship on route - and suddenly a wisp or hin runs in going "this and this is being attacked, please come help!". I might rag on undead plot a bit more just because of this static night time eating up prime time, but it's been happening before on smaller scale too, usually Guard or another faction/group calling for reinforcements (the night time also meaning there's increased UD activity on surface).

Don't react negatively ICly to characters not being there. Don't make anonymous posts about characters who aren't there and "ignored the problem." Don't do this ICly in ongoing roleplay. I don't care if "that's what my character would do" you can still understand that you are working in a system of limitations and being attacked for stepping aside for IC or OOC reasons is a really poor roleplaying hook.

I fully stand with the sentiment here, and I feel no guilt that I ignore most of such calls or "at most" (even if I'm able to) forward them on to someone I think could do more. But equally so, to flip the situation a bit, I can't react negatively to others WANTING THEMSELVES to go there. It would be one thing if we were 100% the Navy on the ship and could simply RP in our heads that "we have our duty, others have our duty, stick to what we have". But that's never the case, given you're forced to have 6+ people to sail out proper (the minimum crew count for manning a flagship - and to attain that, you're usually making combat sacrifices). Depending on the day, our ratio fluctuates anywhere from 80% "faction(navy) crew"/20% "volunteer" to 50%/50%. Obviously, if a volunteer wants to leave, well, it was a risk taken on, got to manage it. But even Navy crew can get pulled this way - due to episodic/session-based rhythm, most sailors are more than sailors. And so you'll have someone in Radiant who'll have to do real hard mental flipping over on why they're not defending the Keep getting stormed hard, or be a friend of someone kidnapped in another city, caring for their close friend a lot, or what not. Trying to punish folk over such reasons - is just as cruel as mean to the folk as forcing them to stay, not to mention hazarding to push away people from wanting to join future sails at all, making the pool of available people next time lower.

And so, you get one, two or more leaving, and suddenly whoops, the whole sail gets crippled, with your choices being - "pull back to easier regions" (which can be a very "fun" task if it happened while out in deepwaters - usually at those points I DO step down my foot and ask folk to stay at least for a bit more - and feel awfully guilty about it, offering extra repayment) or "head for any safe port, dock and just cut it short" (sometimes very abruptly and awkwardly). In either case, the whole thing suddenly shifts from "Let's have an adventure" to "Now how the hell do we still manage anything out here". Once or twice - that's cool, it shouldn't be smooth sailing. Nearly every time? Yuck.

---

I'll admit - it's a topic that's hard to speak about. Just by nature of it being "grand", almost everyone will have their opinion marred with "personal experience" - I can certainly see that for myself, seeing it from a certain lens instead of full scope. And the stories, when you see them in their full completion and how they buffet out as rumours/gossip/broken telephone - are equally as attractive and engaging (I might be an odd duck, but I do enjoy the moments of limited information, and using that to still try to "do your part", even if ineffectual - it often ends up being character shaping, however). So seeing the passion and effort put into it - I don't really wish it curbed either. But it's certainly something that should have some weighting, and maybe forced delay about.

[Coolguy McMagic]

Reading through this thread again, I hope the main take-away isn't that people don't want DM events. I do enjoy them and I've also enjoyed what I've seen of the recent ones as someone who is often watching things from the sidelines and only selectively engages with big plots. Even when I'm not a part of them, knowing that these large-scaled events happen and have (limited) consequences makes the server feel so much more alive. It would be a shame if we saw a reduction of DM interactions just because some player-made events bleed participants.

It seems like one of the main issues is actually players reaching out to all their friends and settlements to help. Maybe we need both (a) an understanding throughout the playerbase that you don't have to or should not invite everyone you know to a DM event and (b) less super difficult mobs so that a huge groups of players aren't necessary to survive the event.

[Kythana]

Maybe we need both (a) an understanding throughout the playerbase that you don't have to or should not invite everyone you know to a DM event

There already is an understanding. I think this thread is proof enough that many players do understand this. But one or two individuals isn't enough to stop the direction of the majority.

Speaking from my own experience, it isn't just DM events where this happens. It applies to almost any sort of spectacle.

PvP? Single Goblin spotted in the woods? Summon everyone.

PvE? We're doing a dungeon, bring along anyone that wants to come.

Even the times I've mentioned icly that we don't need to literally invite everyone whenever a minor crisis occurs, I almost have always gotten some sort of IC pushback, likely rooted in FOMO.

20 people stand around when the pickpocket is caught because nobody wants to miss when something happens.

20 people show up to a DM event for similar reasons.

Unless you either have a massive culture shift in what is expected behavior, the only way this gets better is by outright preventing the bad behavior to begin with.

[Eira]

That is also, unfortunately, the issue with world-ending DM plots. You actually cannot, in character, justify just... not getting involved, if you are anyone who cares about anything. Huge primordial is attacking? Well, guess you can't just sit at home because everyone else is, and has to arm up for it.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

That is also, unfortunately, the issue with world-ending DM plots. You actually cannot, in character, justify just... not getting involved, if you are anyone who cares about anything. Huge primordial is attacking? Well, guess you can't just sit at home because everyone else is, and has to arm up for it.

i laugh in sharran

[Dessin]

too often things get blown out of proportion as too many people become involved

[ReverentBlade]

Plots of any scale are great. DMs just need to learn how to wrap them up eventually. I was having a lot of fun with Ssaerth before it turned into a repetitive, unbeatable trauma-conga, or watching him hyper-fixate on Thomas Castemont. It gave my character a few good moments to shine, which I appreciate, but I could never shake the feeling the rest of us were after-thoughts.

Getting blown up during a lag-fest where we couldn't maneuver and then noticing the DM in Discord saying "haha, these PCs think they can tank artillery to the face" (or something to that effect) was a little...strange. Surely you are also noticing that the server has ground to a halt. Standing in the fire wasn't an IC decision, it was lag.

There is definitely some favoritism and clique stuff happening in regards to whom gets the DM attention. DMing for your friends is fine. Its literally the point of Dungeons and Dragons, so I'm not actually all that fussed about it. Professionalism, coherent plot outlines and mechanical skill with the DM client can disguise a lot of that if you know what you are doing, but that part isn't necessarily happening.

[Xerah]

That is also, unfortunately, the issue with world-ending DM plots. You actually cannot, in character, justify just... not getting involved, if you are anyone who cares about anything. Huge primordial is attacking? Well, guess you can't just sit at home because everyone else is, and has to arm up for it.

That's exactly my point. You can justify it.

"I trust that the people involved are able to handle it."

"I'm recovering from [X] and can't get involved because [see above]."

"My focus is on dealing with [Y] and because [see above]."

"I've been busy training group [Z] and because [see above]."

etc. etc.

Saying you have to be involved because that's what my PC would do is part of the problem that many do (unless that problem is exactly on your door). People shouldn't be giving you a hard time for not being there either. No one wants to be a jerk and exclude people either because then they tell you you're cliquey.

[Eira]

My point is specifically for "the end of the world is nigh, it has been established by the plot that if you do not do SOMETHING, you, your loved ones, your friends, your family, all the innocents, everyone, will die".

All your explanations for not getting involved, Xerah, work great for everything else.

[Craithe]

Plots of any scale are great. DMs just need to learn how to wrap them up eventually. I was having a lot of fun with Ssaerth before it turned into a repetitive, unbeatable trauma-conga, or watching him hyper-fixate on Thomas Castemont. It gave my character a few good moments to shine, which I appreciate, but I could never shake the feeling the rest of us were after-thoughts.

Getting blown up during a lag-fest where we couldn't maneuver and then noticing the DM in Discord saying "haha, these PCs think they can tank artillery to the face" (or something to that effect) was a little...strange. Surely you are also noticing that the server has ground to a halt. Standing in the fire wasn't an IC decision, it was lag.

There is definitely some favoritism and clique stuff happening in regards to whom gets the DM attention. DMing for your friends is fine. Its literally the point of Dungeons and Dragons, so I'm not actually all that fussed about it. Professionalism, coherent plot outlines and mechanical skill with the DM client can disguise a lot of that if you know what you are doing, but that part isn't necessarily happening.

I agree with a lot of this post. I can think of plenty of players/friends who don't even bother looking up from what they're doing when DM events go on because they have the perception that if the event isn't already catered to a specific group, its soon going to be taken over by a group and ball guarded from the community at large.

I think the start of this thread is speaking much more from a privileged position of having characters with extremely easy access to the front row seats of DM plots. If there is fatigue felt, step away. If its too many plots to keep up with, bow out. The concept of being shamed for not paying attention to 'world ending' DM plots is silly, because the plots will move on with or without your participation, and I believe there are plenty of players who would leap at the chance to get involved in DM events if they just felt like they had the opportunity, or felt like they wouldn't be pushed out for not being part of the right factions.

I've sat on the sideline of plots, trying to get a toe in the door and being pushed out. I've likewise seen plots pass by and just carried on with my usual content without consequence. It really isn't such a focal point that if you're not invested you're condemned. Hell, I've walked in on major DM conflicts and had my character say they're just minding their own business trying to get to their next dungeon, and I was free to jog on.

I do feel for the players who have their events overtaken by DM plot priority. That sucks and should probably be better organized/timed. But that's also the flow of roleplay. Probably hard to have a tea party when an earthquake is destroying your local theater.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Getting blown up during a lag-fest where we couldn't maneuver and then noticing the DM in Discord saying "haha, these PCs think they can tank artillery to the face" (or something to that effect) was a little...strange. Surely you are also noticing that the server has ground to a halt. Standing in the fire wasn't an IC decision, it was lag.

yeah i couldn't move during that. at all. the spells were not delayed due to lag, but my movement was.

it's the same thing with like, divine might/shield. the timers still tick as if the server isn't lagging, regardless of whether you can pathfind or not.

[D4wN]

Plots of any scale are great. DMs just need to learn how to wrap them up eventually. I was having a lot of fun with Ssaerth before it turned into a repetitive, unbeatable trauma-conga, or watching him hyper-fixate on Thomas Castemont. It gave my character a few good moments to shine, which I appreciate, but I could never shake the feeling the rest of us were after-thoughts.

Getting blown up during a lag-fest where we couldn't maneuver and then noticing the DM in Discord saying "haha, these PCs think they can tank artillery to the face" (or something to that effect) was a little...strange. Surely you are also noticing that the server has ground to a halt. Standing in the fire wasn't an IC decision, it was lag.

There is definitely some favoritism and clique stuff happening in regards to whom gets the DM attention. DMing for your friends is fine. Its literally the point of Dungeons and Dragons, so I'm not actually all that fussed about it. Professionalism, coherent plot outlines and mechanical skill with the DM client can disguise a lot of that if you know what you are doing, but that part isn't necessarily happening.

I definitely did not ask for the focus on Thomas. In fact, throughout most of the plot I pushed it onto other players and delegated wherever possible. I myself don't really like DM plots in general. At least not the huge ones and tend to run the opposite direction or simply stay where I am. Which is probably also why I've rarely been involved in DM plots. That and time zones.

I love the smaller scale and more personal ones but they're unfortunately few and far in between. I wouldn't have minded a focus from a slaver NPC if it was smaller scale and more personal considering my investment into chainbreaking. Ssaerth became a good nemesis for Thomas, except that he felt unbeatable and that he was already so notorious and affected so many people it wasn't personal for me nor for anyone else. And now he seems to have vanished leaving no closure for anyone.

And this is another concern for me. There are clearly assumptions on favouritism. I have heard many people accuse me of being a DM favourite and always being the centre of plots. Nothing could be further from the truth. But regardless of that, I also think it is unfair towards players to make them feel bad about being involved in DM plots. Like how someone said earlier that it's unfair to make people feel bad for missing out or not being in attendance, I equally think it unfair to name and shame people when they are involved. I definitely notice it myself that if I see an NPC controlled by a DM I'm afraid to even engage with them for fear of how it's perceived.

And that's the issue with these large scale plots as well. That it's not about the 'who' is being involved/selected/chosen to play a role, but the countless individuals trying to push their way into the spotlight barreling over everyone else or excluding people who are not in their direct circle. When you run smaller more targeted plots I think it's a lot easier to share the spotlight amongst players and/or player groups.

[D4wN]

I agree with a lot of this post. I can think of plenty of players/friends who don't even bother looking up from what they're doing when DM events go on because they have the perception that if the event isn't already catered to a specific group, its soon going to be taken over by a group and ball guarded from the community at large.

I think the start of this thread is speaking much more from a privileged position of having characters with extremely easy access to the front row seats of DM plots. If there is fatigue felt, step away. If its too many plots to keep up with, bow out. The concept of being shamed for not paying attention to 'world ending' DM plots is silly, because the plots will move on with or without your participation, and I believe there are plenty of players who would leap at the chance to get involved in DM events if they just felt like they had the opportunity, or felt like they wouldn't be pushed out for not being part of the right factions.

I've sat on the sideline of plots, trying to get a toe in the door and being pushed out. I've likewise seen plots pass by and just carried on with my usual content without consequence. It really isn't such a focal point that if you're not invested you're condemned. Hell, I've walked in on major DM conflicts and had my character say they're just minding their own business trying to get to their next dungeon, and I was free to jog on.

I do feel for the players who have their events overtaken by DM plot priority. That sucks and should probably be better organized/timed. But that's also the flow of roleplay. Probably hard to have a tea party when an earthquake is destroying your local theater.

Again, I am being called out here so I feel the need to respond. This isn't about being 'privileged'. I'm not. I'm not a DM favourite and I don't get plots thrown at me every week. I have played on Arelith for about 9 RL years and perhaps been in the spotlight 3-4 times in all those years across 4 characters. I take a lot of pride in actually helping others to shine and push them to the front of plots.

My post came from the fact that I was enjoying two back to back player events. The first being cut short due to insufferable lag and the second interrupted by calls for aid. And I see it happen again and again. I have been wanting to host events now for several weeks, but they cost a lot of time and effort to organise and I don't want all that go to waste if no one shows up or everyone leaves mid-way through when the world is ending (again). These major island wide plots have been happening now for most of this year back to back with several plots never finished/concluded. When a rot cube slithers through the city you play in, naturally you're going to have some involvement. When elves blow themselves up in your city, you're going to have some involvement. This doesn't mean DMs are centering things around your character. Just the area you play in.

I'd appreciate if this thread can stay on topic and people stop making assumptions about favouritism or being 'priviledged'. Making accusations towards fellow players was not to point of asking people's opinion on this.

[ReverentBlade]

Plots of any scale are great. DMs just need to learn how to wrap them up eventually. I was having a lot of fun with Ssaerth before it turned into a repetitive, unbeatable trauma-conga, or watching him hyper-fixate on Thomas Castemont. It gave my character a few good moments to shine, which I appreciate, but I could never shake the feeling the rest of us were after-thoughts.

Getting blown up during a lag-fest where we couldn't maneuver and then noticing the DM in Discord saying "haha, these PCs think they can tank artillery to the face" (or something to that effect) was a little...strange. Surely you are also noticing that the server has ground to a halt. Standing in the fire wasn't an IC decision, it was lag.

There is definitely some favoritism and clique stuff happening in regards to whom gets the DM attention. DMing for your friends is fine. Its literally the point of Dungeons and Dragons, so I'm not actually all that fussed about it. Professionalism, coherent plot outlines and mechanical skill with the DM client can disguise a lot of that if you know what you are doing, but that part isn't necessarily happening.

I definitely did not ask for the focus on Thomas. In fact, throughout most of the plot I pushed it onto other players and delegated wherever possible. I myself don't really like DM plots in general. At least not the huge ones and tend to run the opposite direction or simply stay where I am. Which is probably also why I've rarely been involved in DM plots. That and time zones.

I love the smaller scale and more personal ones but they're unfortunately few and far in between. I wouldn't have minded a focus from a slaver NPC if it was smaller scale and more personal considering my investment into chainbreaking. Ssaerth became a good nemesis for Thomas, except that he felt unbeatable and that he was already so notorious and affected so many people it wasn't personal for me nor for anyone else. And now he seems to have vanished leaving no closure for anyone.

And this is another concern for me. There are clearly assumptions on favouritism. I have heard many people accuse me of being a DM favourite and always being the centre of plots. Nothing could be further from the truth. But regardless of that, I also think it is unfair towards players to make them feel bad about being involved in DM plots. Like how someone said earlier that it's unfair to make people feel bad for missing out or not being in attendance, I equally think it unfair to name and shame people when they are involved. I definitely notice it myself that if I see an NPC controlled by a DM I'm afraid to even engage with them for fear of how it's perceived.

And that's the issue with these large scale plots as well. That it's not about the 'who' is being involved/selected/chosen to play a role, but the countless individuals trying to push their way into the spotlight barreling over everyone else or excluding people who are not in their direct circle. When you run smaller more targeted plots I think it's a lot easier to share the spotlight amongst players and/or player groups.

I know you didn't ask for the attention. Thomas bent over backwards to try to get away from it, I have no issues with how you handled it as a player. Don't mistake my commentary as being directed at you.

[Peacewhisper]

In regards to favoritism, it's definitely possible there is some of that going on. I've noticed hanging around certain players' characters I'm a lot more likely to get DM involvement. You also have to consider though that maybe these players are just better at providing interesting role play opportunities for DM's and other players alike. Obviously if you lead a faction or settlement and are doing interesting role play, you're more likely to get a DM's attention.

Something as simple as walking through a dungeon and role playing, instead of running through it killing everything quick as possible, can give a DM a chance to spawn an NPC and start RPing with your group. Sailing more often than not also catches a DM's attention. Another thing that helps that some people probably don't want to hear, is letting your character be vulnerable or divulge critical information sometimes. A lot of people play this game like it is covert ops, always stealthed, always in disguise, only communicating through passed letters or in warded rooms. If you're 100% secure and safe all the time, what stakes are there for a DM to get involved?

If you play an interesting character, socialize with others, put your name out there, and aren't afraid to show weakness or accept a loss every now and then, you will probably get to be involved with some kind of DM plot eventually.

Edit: All of the excuses Xerah listed work by the way, I've used them and never gotten any flak for it. (that I know of, at least)