I miss quackers!

[silverpheonix]

Were the quakers a test?

They were a Admin Psy-Op that was never going to be implemented, just like Award Rework. They just wanted to see us squirm and argue with each other and get offended that people like/don't like the thing.

[/obvious sarc].

I liked them because it made not speaking over someone so so so much easier (important when you're about to change topics and then you're doing two conversations at the same time, weird). Not everyone (including me) does "words words long words more words speaking --" to indicate they aren't finished with their train of thought.

[Edens_Fall]

I still like and miss them personally

[Xerah]

I didn't mind them, but there is never going to be any kind of agreement on these. People hate them in Whatsapp/imessage convos too.

I definitely sometimes sit there and do not type because I'm not sure what to say and feel that's a weird thing to do because I'm sitting there looking like I'm AFK in 1:1 RP, but I think that's pretty minor.

I'm not too concerned about people trying to use these for PVP advantage. I think the types of people who do that aren't really operating in good faith and are the type of players I tend to avoid. And I really do like that example of seeing someone typing mid-PVP and stopping, that's pretty cool.

I know one (or more than one?) of the other main PWs are using these. It might be a good idea to not use these as a differentiator because it is one of those things that people really hate when they hate it.

[Gerhazo]

Really enjoyed them while they were around.
Weird silent staredowns of both parties thinking the other one is writing something are awkward and they helped conversations flow much more smoothly while they were around.

[Marsi]

Personally I would never use them. I always turn off read receipts and typing indicators on chat apps. Why on earth would I want to see them on a format I would think is about creative writing. The text box is a creative workspace for me. I type very quickly, but I will draft what I want to write several times. I don't need a visual indicator to tell me whether or not to give my interlocutor room in the conversation, that's something that comes from basic empathy and improv intuition imo.

[Darkstorn42]

I wonder if we can have Quakers as an opt out option. I know response to them is a full range from hate, ambivalence, to love. So why would it change anything if they were added back? None of the doom happened when we had them. Just need to make it clear as possible that it is never okay to ask someone to turn them on or off.

[Dreams]

I wonder if we can have Quakers as an opt out option. I know response to them is a full range from hate, ambivalence, to love. So why would it change anything if they were added back? None of the doom happened when we had them. Just need to make it clear as possible that it is never okay to ask someone to turn them on or off.

Because it changes the way people play the game. The last time they were on, there were people cutting others out of RP for not using them, and being vocal both on the forums and in discord about how people need to use them. This is even after DMs made an announcement not to do that.

Despite whether people use them poorly, if one side is using them and expecting them to be used but the other isn’t, then they’re going to assume they aren’t typing. The assumption is what ends up changing player behaviour.

You’ll also pretty quickly see them referenced IC when characters start to say “He was in the middle of talking”, because the player doesn’t realise that these are OOC indicators. This also happened a bunch last time.

All the behaviour changes are generally glossed over by anyone supportive of quackery.

[Darkstorn42]

Thing.

Opposite of thing.

I very clearly remember everyone claiming this would happen on the forums during the week we had Quakers, but not seeing a single instance of it actually happening. I was told it was pervasive. I was told it would ruin things. I was told the server would die during the test. Nothing happened. None of that happened. It was all doom saying.

Yes, a few people wanted others to turn them on and were jerks about it, but the majority of conversation on the forums was feedback, not examples of the death of the server, which was my point. None of what you are saying happened, what everyone said would happen, happened in any mass quantity.

[AstralUniverse]

I very clearly remember everyone claiming this would happen on the forums during the week we had Quakers, but not seeing a single instance of it actually happening. I was told it was pervasive. I was told it would ruin things. I was told the server would die during the test. Nothing happened. None of that happened. It was all doom saying.

The server hasnt died during the test, but other than that everything else actually did happen. Maybe you just didnt hear about it or read about it. Just because you dont know something for sure, doesnt mean you need to dismiss someone's experience.

All the behaviour changes are generally glossed over by anyone supportive of quackery.

This does appear to be the case here.

[Dreams]

Thing.

Opposite of thing.

I very clearly remember everyone claiming this would happen on the forums during the week we had Quakers, but not seeing a single instance of it actually happening. I was told it was pervasive. I was told it would ruin things. I was told the server would die during the test. Nothing happened. None of that happened. It was all doom saying.

Yes, a few people wanted others to turn them on and were jerks about it, but the majority of conversation on the forums was feedback, not examples of the death of the server, which was my point. None of what you are saying happened, what everyone said would happen, happened in any mass quantity.

Gaslighting 101

[Floral Shoppe]

I very clearly remember everyone claiming this would happen on the forums during the week we had Quakers, but not seeing a single instance of it actually happening. I was told it was pervasive. I was told it would ruin things. I was told the server would die during the test. Nothing happened. None of that happened. It was all doom saying.

I really don't care either way about quackers but I saw two instances of crossing the line, one was a faction I was in voted on Discord to use quackers in meetings and strongly suggested do it or else, another was getting berated for not waiting for someone who was "quacking" to finish typing before I took my turn. Neither is going to take down the server and neither is anything I'd ever report or even mention until now but I could see where these little transgressions could add up.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I very clearly remember everyone claiming this would happen on the forums during the week we had Quakers, but not seeing a single instance of it actually happening. I was told it was pervasive. I was told it would ruin things. I was told the server would die during the test. Nothing happened. None of that happened. It was all doom saying.

Hyperbole on the arelith forums? It must have been a crazy day.

That being said, it's not going to ruin my day if they come back, but they seem unnecessary to me and it can be used to cheese pvp (sorry, the people saying this are right) which will only grow in popularity amongst the pvp crowd as time goes on. Theres already enough pitfalls in the pvp rules for players who want to be overly fair and happen to be against an edge skirter, so adding an unnecessary reason to further dislike arelith pvp doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

[Darkstorn42]

it can be used to cheese pvp (sorry, the people saying this are right)

You know what was funny? In the handful of PVP situations I got in during the trial, I actually would sometimes just sit with my Quakers on, but not typing anything. You can use them to fake people out just as much as someone can use them to cheese. Just remember boys and girls, they are OOC. Lure your prey into an unsuspecting trap with titillating OOC meta knowledge.

And to the rest of everyone where people are 'making decisions on discord for how things will be run in a faction' I highly encourage you to leave those discords. You will thank me later.

[Tyrantos]

I was not playing during quackers. But I would also not like it returned, as it doesnt seem to be a thing thats good for roleplay.

[Dalek Caan]

Wasn't there for quackers myself either. I kinda wanna see how that thing would pan out though!

I'd probably hide them long-term, but hey, if it's an aide to some players, I'm all for it!

[Halibutthead]

i wasn't playing a lot when they were around. they were the #1 best added feature of the arelith server since the -disguise [name] command.
but, after reading all the vague dislike of them over fringe issues, and the complete disregard of their usefulness, i came to the conclusion that someone was screwing with the community.

[Marsi]

Gaslighting 101

“that will never happen”
“its happening but we will just deal with the problem players”
“ok we dont have the resources to deal with the problem players”
“this is just normal now, why are you being weird about it?”
“it was always this way, you are misremembering”

[Cthuletta]

I personally didn't run into any of these mentioned issues when the Quackers were live, those I know were all on the 'You don't have to use them if you rather not' boat. I also played regularly with those who had them disabled, which nobody around seemed to mind! I liked them mostly for personally use, since I have the habit of typing out a sentence, hitting enter, then going "AND ANOTHER THING-" in my Roleplay, which has definitely led to some confusing conversations as I'm still on Point A while the other person moved to Point B before I get that other sentence out! Alternatively, I liked knowing if someone else was doing that same thing so I could get the full context before replying. Definitely a 'me thing', but I found it helped with the flow of conversation a lot and helped me reel back when I needed to so I could give opportunity to the other player.

I don't doubt some people used them to be jerks or weaponized them, and I also don't doubt that those instances stick out like a sore thumb when you see it so they're easy to remember. I'm not sure it was as prevalent across the server as it's being made out to be? Those who do that, should get reported. Another way to put it, is that we have the Disguise System, a minority of people abuse that system, and everyone knows they shouldn't, but we still have it for the benefit of what it's meant for. I think Quackers are in a similar boat, and I'd personally like to see them return as an option but not a requirement.

I certainly don't mean to handwave off those who have concerns, as they are valid, just to be clear!