New AP / Award Changes Feedback

[Xerah]

Would it be too much to ask for perhaps a live stream with Irongron or someone else providing a masterclass on the new rules?

I must confess I have a hard time understanding them.

There's not a lot to understand about the new system. There are some ways to optimize it if you want, but none of it is fundamentally necessary (and if it were, it would be changed)

The basic idea is: play your character and you gain award credit when you roll.

If you're not deeply invested in optimizing it, you don't really need to know much more beyond that.

To go into more detail, there are several modifications to the bold statement:

• The amount of AP you get from the old rolling process (minor/major/etc.) is small compared to the amount of AP you get from playing the game. This is one of the bigger changes and what people seem to be most confused about.

• You can still make 2mo long characters and cooldown roll them if you want (and you'll be slightly better off for it, about 20% or so)

• You max out playing time AP at 36,000 per month

• You also get AP from adventure EXP (not all sources, i.e. killing (though yellow 100exp does give you AP), but most of them), which is not included in the above cap.

• If you have played 60 hours on a character and used a reward on them, you get a generous refund of points back. 90 to 81% refunds on the minor/normal. Less refund on the greater/majors (to keep those options rarer, but still a generous 40% and 20% respectively (160,000 in each case) )

• 20% of the AP you make along the way goes into your bank right away (meaning you don't need to roll to use it), and the remaining 80% stays on the character (can only be accessed if you roll)

• Right now, historical characters aren't worth rolling since you have no AP locked on them. If you've used a reward on them, they might be worth it if you're done with them (see the partial refunds mentioned above)

You can see how much you will gain by typing -awards.

[Iceborn]

Would it be too much to ask for perhaps a live stream with Irongron or someone else providing a masterclass on the new rules?

I must confess I have a hard time understanding them.

I have no saying regarding the rules, but if I may offer my own interpretation of them:

Don't actively idle.
Staying online spinning, slightly moving enough or typing a single line for the sake of accruing gameplay time is a behavior that I would consider exploitative.

This is nothing new, mind. Actively idling to get RPR XP things has always been a thing, and done in a minor level it doesn't matter.
However, leaving your computer on at night with a macro to feign human movement or type a sentence alone in the meat locker or your favorite 2x2 shack is one of those things that I hope I don't have to explain how or why they could get you in trouble with the DMs.

[But Will It Blend]

Would it be too much to ask for perhaps a live stream with Irongron or someone else providing a masterclass on the new rules?

I must confess I have a hard time understanding them.

[*]You also get AP from adventure EXP (not all sources, i.e. killing (though yellow 100exp does give you AP), but most of them), which is not included in the above cap.

So some of this is not correct or isn't working for me as expected. Killing gold enemies has never give me AP. And I've done tests before and after.

I've done -awards, killed a bunch of golds. Did it again. No change whatsoever.

[Xerah]

Ice said it was a thing but I’ve never double checked.

[AstralUniverse]

A bit late to the party but I did read all 9 pages of this thread.

My suggestions

• Entirely remove any interaction between AP gain and RPR. In the previous system, where the speed of leveling can be a factor, high RPR players are compensated and gain exp faster and level faster, so they are less punished for being high RPR players who invest their time into inclusive RP as opposed to mindless grinding. In the new system, speed of leveling is no longer a factor in award gaining, and thus there is no longer need to further increase the gap between RPR ranks beyond just speed of leveling (and access to good monsters etc).

• Remove adventure exp from this math also. If we're doing this to decentivize mindless ginding, then do it properly, dont stop half-way through. Capping out adventure exp is easy.

• In the name of all casual players with inconsistent play times who can sometimes play 150 hours in one month but have 0 time to play in the following month, please allow excess play-time leak into the following month, as per Kythana's idea. The cap should remain, but the play time would be spread more homogeneously, which I see as harmless and just a bit more considerate towards players of this type.

[Darkstorn42]

Ice said it was a thing but I’ve never double checked.

If I remember, it's not all adventure XP. I understood it as special location discovery and first time enemy defeating. Things that can't be farmed and happen from playing.

[Iceborn]

I stand corrected. Yellow monsters are not included.
I thought they did, and they fell in the umbrella of an internal function, but it seems they are entirely unrelated.

I'm going to leave this as-is for now. In the future we'll consider adding yellow monsters to the list of sources of AP.

Regarding why adventure XP rewards AP at all, it's to both incentivize the creation of new characters, to reward exploration, to help abate the feeling that 'dead hours' - that is to say, the time you play after you hit the cap - could be pointless, and to help players get a trickle more of AP if they are JUST a few points off from their award and they want to actively go and reach it without rolling a character.

Though I feel the adventure-to-AP conversion may be a little low - it's currently 10% - so I'll see if it's sensible to somewhat increase it.

[AstralUniverse]

I stand corrected. Yellow monsters are not included.

That's good! Also, I take it you can factor which adventure exp sources give AP and which dont..
So I would assume it shouldnt be an issue to disable the interaction for all adventure exp sources who are grindable, like yellow mobs, and adventure mode... and .. That's it I think? That would make a lot of sense imo.

Regarding why adventure XP rewards AP at all, it's to both incentivize the creation of new characters, to reward exploration, to help abate the feeling that 'dead hours' - that is to say, the time you play after you hit the cap - could be pointless, and to help players get a trickle more of AP if they are JUST a few points off from their award and they want to actively go and reach it without rolling a character.

Yeah.
Color me convinced.
But I'd still leave out all the 'grindable' sources.

[But Will It Blend]

I stand corrected. Yellow monsters are not included.
I thought they did, and they fell in the umbrella of an internal function, but it seems they are entirely unrelated.

I'm going to leave this as-is for now. In the future we'll consider adding yellow monsters to the list of sources of AP.

Regarding why adventure XP rewards AP at all, it's to both incentivize the creation of new characters, to reward exploration, to help abate the feeling that 'dead hours' - that is to say, the time you play after you hit the cap - could be pointless, and to help players get a trickle more of AP if they are JUST a few points off from their award and they want to actively go and reach it without rolling a character.

Though I feel the adventure-to-AP conversion may be a little low - it's currently 10% - so I'll see if it's sensible to somewhat increase it.

It would be nice for them to count. Giving this more thought. I have realized that in my personal case, as this came in at a bad time for me. I sort of have very little AP.

As I said I think the changes are still good but I have hit a dilemma? I guess? If I want to play an alt or try something interesting or what not. The only way I will earn any AP to maybe be able to do that is to roll my main. Even if his story isnt over.

Or I need to make a character that, hilariously, serves no real purpose but to get me ap before exploding them and I now need to do this more times than I did before. Because I can't even explore other concepts that I might think of. I know this isn't intended but like. I am not finished with my main. He hasn't been around long and has so much more to try and do and RP out.

But I either need to blow him up or make 'meaningless' characters to blow up instead. Only like 5 times as many. And I say this as somebody who doesnt make silent rungrind characters. I try to even give my short lived ones fun personalities or gimmicks that at least make them interesting for a short time without overstaying welcome.

Edit: I also just realized even if I do blow up my main... he uh. I still wouldn't have the AP needed for s normal.

Additional unrelated edit: Anyone know if Loremaster explorer gift also multiplies AP gains? Anyone test that?

[Kenji]

The optimizer in me disallowed me to trade my major awards in for a greater award. I had all the major, normal, and minor awards, but never a greater. I've wanted to play a greater award for the longest time - be it Half-Giants or Kenkus.

Now I can, thanks to the points system.

This change was the first great step of many to come.

Full-disclosure: I was not a part of the Award Point development and I was not aware of the project until its release like everyone else.

[AstralUniverse]

I had a major, greater (maybe 2 greaters idk), a lot of normals and something like 1 or 0 minors.

Why do I have exactly 2,000,000 AP? That seems suspiciously rounded.

worth noting that I havent logged any characters since the update yet so probably maybe I have more AP sitting on characters? I still dont get how it works and why I have this amount.

[Xerah]

If you had 1 major, 2 greaters, and 4 normals, you'd have 2,000,000. It should be round. All of those convert into AP

You'd then get legacy AP (That you can't use at the moment) when you log in, but those don't change the 2,000,000 amount. You don't have any AP locked on characters (aside from if you've used a reward on them and get a partial refund).

[AstralUniverse]

If you had 1 major, 2 greaters, and 4 normals, you'd have 2,000,000. It should be round. All of those convert into AP

You'd then get legacy AP (That you can't use at the moment) when you log in, but those don't change the 2,000,000 amount. You don't have any AP locked on characters (aside from if you've used a reward on them and get a partial refund).

Thanks. I know you tried explaining it to people multiple times in this thread already so your patience is noted.

So alright, I have exactly 2mil by coincidence, it seems.

The part I still dont really get is how AP works in regards to old characters. I have quite a few shelved lvl 30 characters. Almost all of them have some award, be it race or even noble or language. Most of them but not all, are within the past 5 years and definitely have way above 60 hours. And here is where I dont really get what happens next.

[Xerah]

The part I still dont really get is how AP works in regards to old characters. I have quite a few shelved lvl 30 characters. Almost all of them have some award, be it race or even noble or language. Most of them but not all, are within the past 5 years and definitely have way above 60 hours. And here is where I dont really get what happens next.

Once you log on to a character, it will automatically send their AP over to legacy AP pool. You don’t need to do anything for that.

You can roll them if you want. If you do roll them you get:

The old epic sacrifice (6k to 30k)
The award refund (36k for minor, 81k for normal 150k for greater/major)
The AP on the character which comes from playing them (which has only been getting collected since April 15). This is 0 for any character you haven’t played in the past month.

[AstralUniverse]

How does one access legacy pool then? What does that pool do if, to my understanding, it doesnt ever translate into actual AP through rolling or whatever else? Or does it actually do translate to AP at some condition?

[Xerah]

How does one access legacy pool then? What does that pool do if, to my understanding, it doesnt ever translate into actual AP through rolling or whatever else? Or does it actually do translate to AP at some condition?

It hasn't been said yet. But that will move over to the actual AP at some point in the near future.

[Iceborn]

We have plans in motion regarding the historic AP pools and it will be available, proooooobably the following week(s).
As soon as RL stops getting in the way.

[AstralUniverse]

Yeah... Thanks for the help.

It's a bit concerning, tho. Dont let Arelith become even more of a zoo than it is now, please. Keep special things special as much as realistically possible.

[Darkstorn42]

I don't know if it's been said, but when does the actual month reset for hours played?

[Xerah]

One month after you first logged in after the new system went live. Should be the 15th for most people.

It’s probably 30 days rather than a month but Ice would have to confirm

[legionetrangere]

I love this new system.
I play in here since 2017, and i'm definitely not a grinder. I never even once hit level 30 with any of my toons, I mostly play until level 26-28. lol.
But I always wished for a greater or a major award so i could play different concepts but every time I roll a toon I get a normal. Its very frustrating.
Now, for the first time since I joined, after all the normals i've collected, i get to play a greater award race. Its refreshing.

Most importantly, I very much love that the system doesn't reward luck, but instead play time. I believe this will, to an extent, lessen the level-30-in-3-weeks grinders (mostly druids with a horde of summons).

THanks, Arelith team!

[legionetrangere]

I love this new system.
I play in here since 2017, and i'm definitely not a grinder. I never even once hit level 30 with any of my toons, I mostly play until level 26-28. lol.
But I always wished for a greater or a major award so i could play different concepts but every time I roll a toon I get a normal. Its very frustrating.
Now, for the first time since I joined, after all the normals i've collected, i get to play a greater award race. Its refreshing.

Most importantly, I very much love that the system doesn't reward luck, but instead play time. I believe this will, to an extent, lessen the level-30-in-3-weeks grinders (mostly druids with a horde of summons).

Thanks, Arelith team!

Edit:

Unrelated to actual numbers, but I do not like this being affected by RPR, and I really do not like DM awarded AP.

Yeah DMs should simply not be allowed to award AP. It's simply not a resource I trust in a subjective process that could be unfairly dispensed. AP should strictly be a automated process.

I second this to the heart.
For all the great work DMs do, i think its safe to say its a very real and probable outcame some players will have preferential treatment and more visibility, and have APs rained on them by DMs.
This in turn might increase other players to take notice at this in some way or another, and get frustrated at the whole ordeal and drop even more bombs at the staff afterwards.

Maintaing balance and neutrality its probably the safest bet

[Sandrow]

On the one hand, I agree with Kythana, Choofed and Legionetrangere, that DM shouldn't be allowed to give away AP at will. On the other hand, if contributors and DMs use AP as awards for activities such as Bot Protection Art Contest, or simply help Sincra testing the PGCC enchantment system, that will inspire more players to get involved and make things better.

[Floral Shoppe]

If a DM is going to play favorites they can do a lot worse things than hand out a few extra AP, I wouldn’t worry about it.

My only thing with it is if I was getting a bonus I’d rather get xpredeem than AP because I don’t care about special races and would rather have that little leveling bump, and I have the feeling xpredeem is going to be sidelined now. I wonder if there could be a way to choose which you want when there’s some DM bonus or server prize.

[But Will It Blend]

The newest step in the AP journey is also another fantastic one. Despite my criticisms of certain aspects, an even greater step forward and I am looking to see some really interesting features that I suspect might be in the pipeline.

Thank you for all your hard work